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They are both large. They're the correct size for me and the top tube lengths are the same. It's not about buying the wrong bike lol. The bike is perfect now, I just needed a longer stem and shorter bars. I can't ride sitting back so far with my hands so wide. I can't feel the front end and climbing sucks with my center of gravity back so far.
Due to the new style geometry, the top tube should be longer on the new bike. The reach length should be about the same as the old. This accomplished with a shorter stem on the new bike. It seems like you got the wrong size bike.
 

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Trails are constructs made to ride bikes on. Trails were made for narrow bars. No one wants to ride narrow bars anymore. Just cut the trees out. Not once I have been on ride and someone has proclaimed. Man that trail was awesome I had to dodge trees with my handle bars the entire time literally not once ever.
Cut Yer Bars blue Mountain Biking Trail - Whistler (trailforks.com)

"....The descent isn't overly technical but features trees tight to to the trail, hence the name...."
Why do want to dumb down the trail? Are you a roadie or something?
 

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Cut Yer Bars blue Mountain Biking Trail - Whistler (trailforks.com)

"....The descent isn't overly technical but features trees tight to to the trail, hence the name...."
Why do want to dumb down the trail? Are you a roadie or something?
We build trails here in competition to make the tightest tech stuff possible. We build other trails too, but there's an entire class of trails we build that we try to have all sorts of stuff like places you gotta turn the bars, duck under something, get over something, etc. I saw that trail in Whistler on TF, but I didn't have the opportunity to ride it. It's a short valley trail in a network of hundreds of trails, but its fun to have stuff like that.

We got one that I call the "tunnel of love", it's relatively straight, as compared to the stuff above I was mentioning, but with a bunch of danger-close trees and a few stump/root things to hop over. The trick is taking it downhill with a bit of speed and not clipping anything. Likewise, you could take it slow, but the challenge is in taking it faster. No one things "oh, I need to cut my bars for this". Several spots are closer than 800mm.
 

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Cut Yer Bars blue Mountain Biking Trail - Whistler (trailforks.com)

"....The descent isn't overly technical but features trees tight to to the trail, hence the name...."
Why do want to dumb down the trail? Are you a roadie or something?

Is it really dumbing the trail down? but honestyl watching the videos nothing looks narrow at all. But yeah stuff narrower than 850mm should probably be cut out . No one likes it. I see no point to it. Again I can ride that stuff on modern bike fine but its more fun to not have to worry about my bars clipping trees. This video sucks the riders is really slow but honestly there is nothing here tighter than 850mm...


Agains trails are constructs to ride bike, I see no reason to make navigating your bars or having to cut your bars down narrower than what is ideal if there was no obstacles were there.

Its likely roadie is a rip or something lol but if you back earlier in the video I dont even like flow trails.
 

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Is it really dumbing the trail down? but honestyl watching the videos nothing looks narrow at all. But yeah stuff narrower than 850mm should probably be cut out . No one likes it.
Oh no, this is mountain biking, if someone can brag about it they'll pretend to love it. These sissies and their wide bars these days!
 

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Oh no, this is mountain biking, if someone can brag about it they'll pretend to love it. These sissies and their wide bars these days!
you forgot the ;)

The thing is narrrow bar bikes(let just say 700mm and narrow for a normal adult male) are worse to ride anywhere else except for places with choke point. Just cut the choke points out.

You know what favorite ride is? to climb and exposed loose slate up hill at 30 percent with many switch back that happen just after little downhills, after getting to the top I am greated with really flat straight single track at a 1 percent grade with tons of trees that make me wiggle my bars around and everyone once in while there are two tree so tight I can not get my bar though at all unless I do an X up wheelie. The trail then dropdown steeply only to go right up again. No flow, and no fun tech, just REAL mtbing trail, if you dont like it, you must be roadie and I am superior to you because I put sand paper in my chamios and only drink kerfir while I ride. We MTB harder their taint with sand paper, if you dont you belong on the bike path.
 

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you forgot the ;)

The thing is narrrow bar bikes(let just say 700mm and narrow for a normal adult male) are worse to ride anywhere else except for places with choke point. Just cut the choke points out.

You know what favorite ride is? to climb and exposed loose slate up hill at 30 percent with many switch back that happen just after little downhills, after getting to the top I am greated with really flat straight single track at a 1 percent grade with tons of trees that make me wiggle my bars around and everyone once in while there are two tree so tight I can not get my bar though at all unless I do an X up wheelie. The trail then dropdown steeply only to go right up again. No flow, and no fun tech, just REAL mtbing trail, if you dont like it, you must be roadie and I am superior to you because I put sand paper in my chamios and only drink kerfir while I ride. We MTB harder their taint with sand paper, if you dont you belong on the bike path.
Poser. Real mountain bikers don’t wear chamois, they go commando under their jorts.
 

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Been MTBing since the late 80’s. I indeed started in the era of long stems and short bars. The main advantage for me in having a short stem and wider bars is COMFORT. An upright riding position is just easier on my back, neck, wrists and arms. I still have an old Independent Fabrications Deluxe sitting in the garage from @ 1997 (???). Gorgeous bike. But everytime I try to ride it I’m like “WOW, I can’t believe I used to take this on trails!!!” 130mm Ringle Stem and bars barely as wide as my shoulders. Seems so sketchy now:LOL:
 

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Been MTBing since the late 80’s. I indeed started in the era of long stems and short bars. The main advantage for me in having a short stem and wider bars is COMFORT. An upright riding position is just easier on my back, neck, wrists and arms. I still have an old Independent Fabrications Deluxe sitting in the garage from @ 1997 (???). Gorgeous bike. But everytime I try to ride it I’m like “WOW, I can’t believe I used to take this on trails!!!” 130mm Ringle Stem and bars barely as wide as my shoulders. Seems so sketchy now:LOL:
I took a bike with a similarly steep (71) head angle and converted from a long/narrow combo to something not quite as extreme as today's 35mm stem, 800mm bars "standard." The OE stem was 100mm with a 12 degree rise and the bars were 670mm with a 20mm rise and 5 degree backsweep. The replacement stem was 70mm with a 6 degree rise. This moved the bar mounting location back 22mm and down 22mm. For bars, I chose the 760mm Renthal Fatbar Lite which have a 30mm rise, 7 degree backsweep and 5 degree upsweep. Along with the width, the backseep moved my hand position back even further and the additional rise and upsweep gave me back some of the loss of stack height. This change made the bike much better to ride. I felt so much more confident in the new combination than the original equipment. I could have gone even shorter on the stem (55-60mm), but kept it a little long to help remove some of the twitchiness of the steep head angle.
 

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Been MTBing since the late 80’s. I indeed started in the era of long stems and short bars. The main advantage for me in having a short stem and wider bars is COMFORT. An upright riding position is just easier on my back, neck, wrists and arms. I still have an old Independent Fabrications Deluxe sitting in the garage from @ 1997 (???). Gorgeous bike. But everytime I try to ride it I’m like “WOW, I can’t believe I used to take this on trails!!!” 130mm Ringle Stem and bars barely as wide as my shoulders. Seems so sketchy now:LOL:
I had a lovely IF that fit me perfectly, even with a 70mm stem and wide bars, but that Norba 71/73 geometry killed me. Too many almost otb and oversteer moments.
 

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I have a tiny stem and big wide a55ed bars on an older one I picked up. I find myself banging them on my legs in low speed maneuvers. Anyone else experience this? It's a medium, I'm 5'9". Do I need a longer stem and shorter bars, or is there a technique I'm missing?
Bicycle Bicycles--Equipment and supplies Bicycle frame Bicycle handlebar Bicycle tire
Bicycle Bicycles--Equipment and supplies Bicycle frame Sports equipment Bicycle handlebar

I'd rather not replace the parts, I don't have very much "cool" stuff, this is as close to modern as I get
 

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I have a tiny stem and big wide a55ed bars on an older one I picked up. I find myself banging them on my legs in low speed maneuvers. Anyone else experience this? It's a medium, I'm 5'9". Do I need a longer stem and shorter bars, or is there a technique I'm missing? View attachment 1951690 View attachment 1951691
I'd rather not replace the parts, I don't have very much "cool" stuff, this is as close to modern as I get

being a size "M" is pretty vague.

Whats the reach and TT length? I'm 5'9 and I ride size M hardtail as well, but it has a 450mm reach with a 35mm stem(yours looks crazy long) and 760mm bar.

I am not saying this is correct but if I had to guess you bike is probably more like 410mm reach(or even shorter) which means to get the same distance from pedal to bars on 410 reach I would need a 75mm stem, then my steering would be all sorts of fucked up.

The thing is about modern bikes, with slack head angle,longer reach. and low offset forks is that stems longer than 40mm are just pointless. You do not need length from the stem if the bike is long enough. your bike is old and simply is not long enough. What bike is it?
 

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Ok I did some digging. My size M 2021 Canfield N9 has a 597mm ETT and a 450mm reach. Your Brodie Omega size M has a 523mm ETT and there is no reach number, but knowing the brodies has an slacker seat tube angle my guess is the reach is probably in the 360-370mm range.

What this means. while sitting your bike given an equal stem to my bike would be 75mm shorter, while when of the seat its 80 to 90mm shorter from bars to pedals.

Basically old geometery is ****, but if its all you have ever rode its hard to make that call with out the context of a actual modern geo bike.
 

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Cool, thanks for the reply! Funny how far apart we are, I think the stem is tiny at like 70mm but to you that's huge! Where did you find the geo numbers for the Brodie, I wasn't able to find anything anywhere!
 

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IF your older frame was adequately large, it's not so bad to put a shorter stem and wider bars on it. The problem is the industry was recommending downsizing for so many years when you were in between sizes and even sometimes when you weren't. This was kind of ok back in the early 90s when we had crazy high TTs, crazy long HTs for larger sized bikes, no dropper posts, and crap geometry all around. Even though that hasn't been the case for a long time, that idea has still persisted in many people's minds. They used to (and still do) say, "you can't make a frame smaller, but you can build up a smaller frame to make it fit a large person". It's false since we can get some real short stems these days to effectively shorten a frame if you are "in between" sizes, not to mention other things with the saddle adjustment, etc. These days with dropper posts, modern geometry, dropped top-tubes and all of that stuff, there's no reason to downsize and I'd recommend upsizing if you are in-between, because being properly stretched out is important for comfort and not hurting and you spend a lot more % of the ride in this position than you do in attack position riding downhill for any self-powered riding and you simply don't take the giant handling hit that you used to back in the day. On anything except a DH park bike, I'd automatically upsize these days if in-between. But again, this idea of downsizing has persisted and a lot of frames are just too small, so shorter stems on some of these can exacerbate the problem and make it worse.
 
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Cool, thanks for the reply! Funny how far apart we are, I think the stem is tiny at like 70mm but to you that's huge! Where did you find the geo numbers for the Brodie, I wasn't able to find anything anywhere!
I haven’t had a stem longer than 50mm for at least 7 or 8 years. I’m thinking more like 10. That Chromag stem and bar is nice stuff. Don’t emasculate that bar any more than it already has been. We need to let these bars thrive in all their natural 800mm glory.
 

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Nope, stem is definitely 70. Says so right on it, measure 70 from c to shining c. Bars are about 730 mm
 

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I used to own a shop and I carried those bikes. Late 00s Brodies were actually starting to move to longer and slacker but it was not until the Kona Honzo did we really start to have longer and slacker bikes. Even the old Honzo though is VERY short in a given size compared a 2021 bike. I did how ever have to call up someone who kept all the old catalogs. The one thing is REACH was not a measurement up until recently so with out the bike in person I could only estimate.
 

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Is it really dumbing the trail down? but honestyl watching the videos nothing looks narrow at all. But yeah stuff narrower than 850mm should probably be cut out . No one likes it. I see no point to it. Again I can ride that stuff on modern bike fine but its more fun to not have to worry about my bars clipping trees. This video sucks the riders is really slow but honestly there is nothing here tighter than 850mm...
I think "Cut Yer Bars" used to be narrow but over the years it has gotten wider. Once small elevation change trails like this get a little wider they become popular as dog walking trails. Places like this: City Park trails, bmx bike trails, small elevation change trails in the suburbs should be kept narrow. Narrow is often the only thing that makes them interesting to ride. Fast flat narrow trails thru the woods are fun.
 

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I replied to Bushwacker either just before or just after he got banned .
So Not expecting an reply form him.
 
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