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Someone did that here. It was not cool.

Make it a bypass.

But on the topic of the Dragonslayer - I test rode one. It was a nice bike. But it was not really new geo. 780mm bars is really wide for my area - you would not fit down the trails. 650mm bars, OTOH, is losing out out on some leverage and stability.

When I finally put together a 2018 AM HT with a 140mm fork, that was new geo. I have plowed some very abrupt, mis-timed ledges, logs, and rocks, and new geo has saved my bacon every time so far. The bike is noticeably longer than my old bike, and probably slightly slower steering, but it allows for some really confident descending, without suffering in the tight twisties that characterize many of our local trails.

-F
Trails are constructs made to ride bikes on. Trails were made for narrow bars. No one wants to ride narrow bars anymore. Just cut the trees out. Not once I have been on ride and someone has proclaimed. Man that trail was awesome I had to dodge trees with my handle bars the entire time literally not once ever.

new bikes are not meant to steer quick, they are meant to carve quick. If you think turns should be taken with the bike upright by "steering" and not leaning the bike, the new geo feels awful.
 

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Elitest thrill junkie
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Trails are constructs made to ride bikes on. Trails were made for narrow bars.
Please post videos of these tight trails that you can't ride modern bikes on. We tend to make many of our winter trails as tight as possible.


 

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I never said I can not ride them. Did I say that? Nope you did. I just said trails should be modified for modern bikes.

I just said narrow spots are dumb. Also gopro wide angle lense make thing looks much narrower.


Plus we do not have narrow spots on our trails. Someone has removed basically all of them, whether its me or someone else. There is no objective or subjective for trails to have narrow spots for handlebars and no one enjoy them.

This is about as narrow as my local trails get. but since the local riders basically rode enduro bikes before anyone knew that term is and wide bars have been in vogue for like 20 years now there simply is not choke points.


and yes I know how to do a wheelie X up.


I just think it dumb and I like the feeling of leaning the bike over and carving. I have been riding since 1994 and have used really narrow bars all the ways up to 800mm, I like740-760 because its feel the most comfortable me after try many bars literally back to back and that what I like. I also do not have tight spots/have no issue cutting them out and no one around me really has issueof cutting them out.
 

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Disgruntled Peccary
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I wonder what it's like having trails made for mountain bikes specifically. Pretty much all of ours are foot/equestrian trails. Man, maybe we should go tear out all the janky switchbacks and cactus.

Nah.
 

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I wonder what it's like having trails made for mountain bikes specifically. Pretty much all of ours are foot/equestrian trails. Man, maybe we should go tear out all the janky switchbacks and cactus.

Nah.
I could honestly careless about how stupid turns are, if you watch the 1st video there are lots of places where the turns are awkward, but its because of the trail, not something on the side of the trail that can be removed.
 

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I think there is a point where you have to work WITH the terrain. Not every system is soft loam with sparse trees and endless lines to choose from. If that describes your trails, sure, there should be more put into trail course design. Other times we are riding basically semi-groomed All Mountain lines.
 

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I think there is a point where you have to work WITH the terrain. Not every system is soft loam with sparse trees and endless lines to choose from. If that describes your trails, sure, there should be more put into trail course design. Other times we are riding basically semi-groomed All Mountain lines.
It does, but the loam is by choice. We never leaf blow here. Trail that are leaf blown near by IMO suck compared to my actually local trails. So is the width. The trees can grow in really tight in Vermont and when they do we jsut cut them out. its also a lot steeper than its looks with grades going over 20 to 30 percent in those video we prefer fall line flow over speed sucking bench cut. More like the UK than anywhere I have rode in the states.
 

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Discussion Starter · #31 · (Edited)
The Dragonslayer with a 73 degree seat angle and 68 degree head angle is not a modern geometry bike (the Dragon 29 is). You say it has the same reach and toptube length as your old bike, did you size down? How tall are you and what size did you get? Over the past 20 years toptube lengths have grown. The Dragonslayer with a 625mm toptube in large is at the shorter end for new bikes, but that is still 25mm longer than what most large hardtails were 20 years ago. Finally, the Dragonslayer was designed as an all day and bikepacking bike, so a shorter reach and more upright position are part of the design over a modern XC or trail hardtail. Maybe you bought the wrong bike for your needs.
They are both large. They're the correct size for me and the top tube lengths are the same. It's not about buying the wrong bike lol. The bike is perfect now, I just needed a longer stem and shorter bars. I can't ride sitting back so far with my hands so wide. I can't feel the front end and climbing sucks with my center of gravity back so far.
 

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Discussion Starter · #32 ·
I've heard about people complaining about "really tight trails" and that they will clip their bars, but I have to wonder if that's more of a perception vs. reality thing
When your bars stick further out it's a reality that there's a higher chance of clipping stuff.
 

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Discussion Starter · #33 ·
You have better control when you're hands are inline with the steering axis and wide apart. You can try this with a car steering wheel by comparing having your hands at 9 and 3 o clock (what racing drivers do) vs having your hands together at 12 o clock. In both cases the steering speed is the same (assuming the wheel is a circle).
I guess that makes sense but I've never had problems controlling my bikes with shorter bars and longer stems.
 

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Bicyclochondriac.
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If you find that a trail is not a good fit for your riding style and/or your bike, the problem is not the trail.
 

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Bikes are usually designed for a certain bar/stem combo. Their angles not only affect fit but just as importantly, handling. A 15yr old XC bike with a 70-71 head angle won't handle well with a 40mm stem and 780mm bars. It will feel very twitchy. Similarly a 64 head angle bike won't handle as intended with a 100mm stem and 620mm bars.

OP do yourself a favour and give the spec'ed cockpit a few rides more. If anything, you might wanna try a 60mm stem instead of the 80mm. You can also chop the bars but 740 is the min I'd go. 750-780 are the most common numbers nowadays. These things evolved to how they currently are for a reason, and the reason is better handling and control on the trails. I'm 5'4" and ride 40/750mm stem/bars on a bike with 66 degrees head angle. I've tried other lengths aswell and I found that's the sweet spot for me. See what works for you but allow some time to get used to how the bike wants to be ridden.
 

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Bicyclochondriac.
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To the OP:

It sounds like you got an ill-fitting bike and are making some broad assumptions based on it.

You mention the tall stack and that it came with a riser bar. Well, bar height is a fit thing. If it is too high, get a low rise or flat bar. Or flip a stem.

If you insist on riding an MTB like a Road bike, then the Road-ish geometry and cockpits of the 1990s work well. If you want to learn some new riding techniques and benefit from what mountain bikers have leaned over the past 25 years, you will most likely benefit from more modern geo and cockpit setups.

I think the tree-clipping thing is a bigger issue in theory than in practice. It is an issue occasionally, but it just means you occasionally slow down a tad. Your hands are at the ends of the bar, and you quickly learn to judge how close they are to obstacles like trees. I don’t find I actually clip trees any more often now than when I had narrow bars. Yes, there are some trails I ride (more like bushwhacked paths in dense forest) where I would probably prefer narrower bars, but those are the exception to the rule.
 

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I guess that makes sense but I've never had problems controlling my bikes with shorter bars and longer stems.
That's because that's what you're used to, just like people who are so used to driving with their hand(s) at the top of the wheel that 9 and 3 feels awkward to them. They get down the road fine but they're not going to be great in a high performance driving situation.

You can also look at hand position on any other vehicle designed around handling performance... Dirt bikes, BMX bikes, slopestyle bikes, any track car, etc. Mountain bikes come from road bikes where large steering inputs are rare and aerodynamics is a large consideration.
 

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They are both large. They're the correct size for me and the top tube lengths are the same. It's not about buying the wrong bike lol. The bike is perfect now, I just needed a longer stem and shorter bars. I can't ride sitting back so far with my hands so wide. I can't feel the front end and climbing sucks with my center of gravity back so far.
I think you are missing the part about your new bike not really being a modern geometry. Modern bikes are not ridden off the back, they are ridden off the front. I would suggest watching these videos which have a good discussion of modern v. traditional geometry and the differences in riding style. While the changes feel strange at first, once learned result in much faster and consistent riding with less chance of going over the bars.


 

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Bicyclochondriac.
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They are both large. They're the correct size for me and the top tube lengths are the same. It's not about buying the wrong bike lol. The bike is perfect now, I just needed a longer stem and shorter bars. I can't ride sitting back so far with my hands so wide. I can't feel the front end and climbing sucks with my center of gravity back so far.
You’ve got something backwards here. Wider bars pull you forward. They do not push you back.

Seriously, if you are hanging too far off the back of a bike built after 2010 with an 80mm stem and 780mm bar, either it has some seriously whack geometry, or you need to size up. But whatever the case, you are making way too general a statement from ONE bike.
 

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Oh dear. OP take that long stem and skinny bars off immediately and get used to the better modern geo. By trying to make it feel like your old terrible bike you are making it worse........
 
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