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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
So how much of an influence can mounting hardware make on the performance, mainly small bump compliance, of the shock? And also through the pivots for that matter. Negligible?

I'll use an example, mine in fact: i recently installed a new shock (rs monarch) and i'm re-using the reducers from the previous shock (fox vanilla), which are old, ungreased (didn't have grease and the time) and during the process of removing the reducers, i (stupidly) made dents and stuff into the metal, possibly causing excess friction? And maybe i've tighten to bolts too tight. Now i'm not going to carelessly leave it like this (i would seem like a pretty careless guy at this point haha), so i will get some grease onto it and tighten the bolts appropriately, although i'm also considering purchasing the rock shox mountain hardware, which consists of three pieces and looks of higher quality than the fox two piece ones. So basically i would like to know if it will do anything.

The rock shox mounting hardware is shown below.


Thanks.
 

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In my experience the bushing hardware makes a bigger difference in the life of the shock seals than in the feel of the bike. Usually with leverage ratios for rear suspension between 2.4 and 3 to 1 the value of friction and stiction is far less than in a fork for affecting the handeling of the bike. Given that many rear suspensions have variable lever rates you can further mask the effects of worn hardware from the rider's perspective. Consider keeping your bushings clean, lubed, and tight a good idea to preserve your shock. I know that lots of folks will say they changed bushings or went to bearings and fely a huge difference, but I am taking into account that the OP has just installed a new shock and is not yet used to it.
 

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The Bubble Wrap Hysteria
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First off, I really like the Rock Shox mounting hardware. The thru axle is way better then the hat type hardware found on most Fox shocks. The DU Bushings I use and sell have a small percentage of lead in them which aids in lubricity and ultimately effects bushing life. It's important if you have a couple of shocks for one bike to have mounting hardware for each shock because removing and installing hardware just reduces the life of the DU Bushing. Everytime the mounting hardware is removed it removes Bushing material which is not good for Bushing life. But the bottom line is the DU Bushings are a wear item and should be expected to be replaced. How often depends on a lot of factors.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I took the shock off and greased the pivots. I also took pictures while i was at it to show the state of the reducers. The markings on the side is when i tried to pry off the reducers from the old shock, eventually i gave up and got it done at my LBS. I haven't worked on any other bike but mine so i don't have anything to compare with, but my guess, there probably really worned out.

So by looking at these pictures, what could getting new (rock shox) mounting hardware do for my shock, in terms of performance? Otherwise i know it would definitely be better for the life of the shock.
 

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noMAD man
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Peter, those last pics look like the spacers are rotating in the frame mount. As you're probably aware, the spacers are usually supposed to stay stationary bolted into the mount while the shock moves or rotates around the spacer or thru-axle hardware. The best designs minimize this movement, of course, and therefore lengthen bushing life. As already stated, the bushing is a wear item.

On the lubing of shock eye bushings, most schools of thought and most bushing designs don't recommend lubing them. Some lubing methods even soften up the bushing material causing early death. I'll fly in the face of convention somewhat in saying that I use a thin application of automotive antiseize on all my shock bushings. I've been doing this for as many years as I've ridden modern suspension bikes...about the mid 90's. I've also run the same shocks in the same bikes without antiseize, and I think there is a reasonable increase in bushing life in the situations in which I've compared them when using antiseize. Frankly, I'd say the safe bet is to run nothing as most manufacturers suggest from what I've seen when it's discussed in their instructions. I haven't seen any negative issues with running antiseize at the least, and I use it sparingly. You'll get strong debates from many who declare that antiseize with literally grind away the bushing in short order. I have never found that to be the case with Fox, Progressive, Manitou, RS, Stratos, Cane Creek and other shocks I've run over the years, so proceed at your own risk.

I agree with mtnbiker...one piece thru-axle type spacers seem to have better strength integrity, less flex, and longer bushing life than 2-piece tophat style spacers.
 

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Sorry for thread hijack and apologies for my ignorance, as i've not heard of lubing bushings before, but is it the reducers that rotate inside the bushing?

Or does the thru-bolt rotate inside the reducers?

When I was sent my reducers (2-piece style for Fox float) the hole bored through was 6mm and I needed 8mm, so we just drilled them out.

I've been riding the bike and it seems fine, but could I be creating excessive bushing wear or something?

I guess i could order some new reducers, but I would probably have to get new bushings in the process, and with that in mind - do i have to get the bushings and reducers from Fox? Or could i send my shock to RockShox to get them to fit new bushings and reducers?
(Just thinking of which distributor is easier to deal with)

Cheers
 

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The Bubble Wrap Hysteria
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Little Willy said:
Sorry for thread hijack and apologies for my ignorance, as i've not heard of lubing bushings before, but is it the reducers that rotate inside the bushing?

Or does the thru-bolt rotate inside the reducers?
Here is a Free Body Diagram (FBD) of the Bushing/Reducer system. The 1/2" reducers that Rock Shox mfgs are IMO better then the "Hat" style that Fox sells.

The DU Bushings can be lubricated before use but remember if you ride in a sandy environment the lube will attract the sand thus reducing bushing life. I've done a lot of testing of different types of Bushings and the ones I sell seem to be the better for our application.
 

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As well as the sleeve design taking loads better than the top-hat type, it handles bolt tension better.
I've had top-hat type bushings virtually lock solid in the eyelet because of tension from the M6 bolt. This did have the benefit of taking up any play, but in a bad way.

The eyelet bushings are cheap wear items, as well as DU and DX type bushings (similar thing, different coatings) you can get IGUS polymer bushings which wear much better and will handle slight misalignment.

Like mtnbiker4life I also make and sell shock mount hardware, but only way down here in NZ.
 

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All this talk has got me thinking about having some ½” reducers turned to replace my fox hat style reducers.

How does the sleeve style keep the shock centered?
 

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noMAD man
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gte819s said:
All this talk has got me thinking about having some ½" reducers turned to replace my fox hat style reducers.

How does the sleeve style keep the shock centered?
By having "washer-like" spacers that fill the void over the sleeve in between the shock body eyelet and frame slot.
 

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gte819s said:
All this talk has got me thinking about having some ½" reducers turned to replace my fox hat style reducers.

How does the sleeve style keep the shock centered?
As TNC said, they use collars to keep the shock centred.
Some use aluminium, I prefer to use plastic. It's lighter, doesn't rattle or rust and can't scratch the shock or frame.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Dougal said:
Like mtnbiker4life I also make and sell shock mount hardware, but only way down here in NZ.
Cool. Well i live in Australia so you're just around the corner. :)

I suppose there isn't an immediate need to change out bushings, but ill be sure to get myself the Rock Shox mounting hardware when i do.
 

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Hi,

I've been searching around for an answer to this question and think I'll ask it here. I just ordered new mounting hardware for my rockshox rear shock (sleeve style) and it is has come with 4 collars (washer-like spacers) per mounting sleeve. Two of the collars are rubber and the other two are metal. I realize each side of the shock should have both a metal collar and a rubber collar but I'm wondering which collar to place against the rocker arm and which to place next to the shock and why. Any help would be appreciated.

Here's an attachment of the set up:
 

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The Bubble Wrap Hysteria
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Chuck33 said:
Hi,

I've been searching around for an answer to this question and think I'll ask it here. I just ordered new mounting hardware for my rockshox rear shock (sleeve style) and it is has come with 4 collars (washer-like spacers) per mounting sleeve. Two of the collars are rubber and the other two are metal. I realize each side of the shock should have both a metal collar and a rubber collar but I'm wondering which collar to place against the rocker arm and which to place next to the shock and why. Any help would be appreciated.

Here's an attachment of the set up:
The rubber collars go against the shock. They act like a seal keeping dirt and other contaminants out of the DU Bushings.
 

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Interresting thread this.

I've got a Rs Monarch too and i can't say i've had any issue's with my setup. On the front i have the Top hat system as it's only 20mm wide but at the rear i have this sleeved axel setup.

It's correct in saying the more you remove/refit the hardware the quicker the DU Bushing wears out.

I actually make my own mounting hardware now. I used a 1/2" aluminium bar and machine my own axel to go through the shock eyelets. Not had any issues so far and although it may not be an issue for most people for the weigh weenies it's a lot lighter than the steel versions you buy.
 

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My shock bushings feel very tight in my Meta 5.

If I undo one end of the shock, it takes quite a bit of effort to pivot it around the other bushing by hand. There has always been a bit of stiction on the rear sus action- I always assumed it was because of the air shock but I bet it's mostly from this.

BETD make roller bearings to replace the bushing - has anyone given these a try?
http://www.mountainbikecomponents.co.uk/items.asp?CategoryID=231&Name=Fox+Needle+Roller+Bearing
 
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