[Rev. 14]

So, how many of you have seen this new drivetrain? Anyone there at Sea Otter who tried it?

For me, I don't understand why they made it to require a derailed system. What the heck? Do they not
know that SRAM has been killing it with their no derailed system? Do they not understand that riders like
this? I'm a bit let down with this introduction, I was expecting much more from Shimano, especially for XTR
group. Love the brakes, but as far as holding out any longer for their offering I'll go SRAM XX1. I have a
feeling Shimano is going to take a big PR hit on this one. THey'll be nailed to the wall on this bad deal.

It seems like this derailed system is here because the
chainring looks like a regular chainring, the teeth don't seem to be what SRAM did to innovate teeth that
will keep the chain from coming off. Thoughts anyone???

Boothstorming Sea Otter: Shimano highlights new XTR 11-speed group | Mountain Bike Review

Hot News: Shimano releases new 11-speed XTR group with 1x, 2x and 3x configurations | Mountain Bike Review

 

[muzzanic]

Yes it was the lack or range on a 10 speed cassette that stopped me going 1x10 because I just XX1 & X01 on my bikes & love it.

For me the XTR still doesn't have enough range for me to use it.

 

[Tyrich88]

the new XTR does not require a derailleur. It can be 1x11 or 2or3x11. They did it for compatibility. The 1x specific chainring looks KIND OF like a regular chainring. The teeth all hook forwards. It is their own version of chain retention.
The cassette range is not as good, but you also have the option for 1x11 (More racing /weight weenie specific) or you have a ton of options and range choices with their 2x11 or 3x11. (Which is geared to endurance and trail, etc.)
I'm still not sure how I feel about it, simply because I was hoping for something a lot like SRAMs xx1, just built by shimano. But I think if this had come first, it would have turned just as many heads as SRAM's did. (That's my personal opinion though)

 

[CannondaleF9]

I would buy the Shimano derailleur, and cassette, and chain, but for the front I would put together an XT crank with a Raceface Narrow-Wide chainring for the 1x11.
But the 2x11 and 3x11 options are going to save the front derailleur .

 

[kosmo]

I like it because I'm a gear whore, and I can put that 11-speed cassette on any of the three sets of nice wheels I already own, without any special (and slightly odd) drivers.

I'm thinking the quiet unsung hero in this new gruppo might be the chain, with the hard coating treatment. Fingers crossed. I ride a lot, and have said for years that I would gladly pay $150 for a chain that never need lube.............

 

[lilsanch]

Think I'll stick with XX1. That being said, the XTR crank is gorgeous.

 

[sandwich]

Not sure why this is in 29er bikes discussion...but

I'm a big fan of this, for its even spacing and ability to use the same-old freehubs we all have on our bikes already. XTR is a top tier XC racing drivetrain, so I'm not entirely certain why you would want 10-42 on your 29er hardtail or short travel XC bike...vs having the ability to dump a bunch of gears via a front derailleur in short order instead of half a dozen clicks. I love front derailleurs, when they work, and being able to swap the amount of chain feedback via chainring size is an added bonus that I think many people don't understand. By dropping 10 teeth up front, you might entirely change the way your suspension behaves...vs. switching to a 42t cog, which will likely make it pedal even worse.

Now, I'm hoping shimano also releases a 11-42 or 43 cogset under "saint" or zee guise, for people who demand a single ring drivetrain.

 

[Tyrich88]

Great points! The only reason I would want a 10-42 is for endurance racing where there is a lot of climbing. However, I do like that it is compatible with 1x or 2x configurations. When it comes to racing, all I will ever want is a 1x, but for those long, steep, mountain climbs... definitely want that smaller chainring to drop down to.
Hopefully the chain is compatible with the raceface next chainrings... they seem to have the easiest way to switch between 1x and 2x as the same q factor and crankset are used for both, where I thought I saw that shimano was having a dedicated 1x crankset and then a 2-3x crankset with a different q factor.

 

[mtnbikej]

Since I really didn't need to go 10 spd.....but wanted a Type 2 Derailluer.....I still haven't found anything that I need more than 32x36 to climb.

32x40 / 32x42 just sounds way to spinny.

I'll just stick with 1x10.

 

[tehllama]

The answer is that a lot of MTB ownership is in areas where those granny gears aren't required in order to get places; couple that with varying status of riders' knees (mine are junk from soccer injuries and military abuse), and that range very quickly starts to be something important. The other part of the equation is bike weight - bigger 29ers made with burly parts (long travel AM ones) aren't going to accelerate quickly enough to be snappy and get away with taller short gears in order to charge up technical terrain - so there is still a future for the 2x10 setup (while the 1x11 is going to continue to be the superior option for lighter setups).

Where I think Shimano missed the boat is the idea of total gear ratio range - XO1/XX1 has that 10-42T, which yields a 4.2:1 gearing range, which can be set by the sole chainring; the advantage a 2x setup still offers is that the gear ratio range with a common, and cheap setup (24/36T x 11-36T) is closer to 5x ratio range; so nobody in their right mind is going to spend XTR set money on a 2x10 setup that adds extra gearing range without the weight savings, especially since hardly anybody actually uses a gearing range of greater than 5:1 low to high, so those extra gears are unlikely to find a use, even in a lightweight do-everything XC-Enduro bike.

This just makes the SRAM X9 Type 2 based 1x10 11-42T setups with One-Up or WolfTooth big rings all the more attractive; for those who don't care much about weight the PG1030 cassette will work, and the cheaper raceface narrow/wide chainrings mean that Shimano is really only aiming at the OEM market with this XTR set... and they're behind.

 

[lilsanch]

The answer is that a lot of MTB ownership is in areas where those granny gears aren't required in order to get places; couple that with varying status of riders' knees (mine are junk from soccer injuries and military abuse), and that range very quickly starts to be something important. The other part of the equation is bike weight - bigger 29ers made with burly parts (long travel AM ones) aren't going to accelerate quickly enough to be snappy and get away with taller short gears in order to charge up technical terrain - so there is still a future for the 2x10 setup (while the 1x11 is going to continue to be the superior option for lighter setups).

Where I think Shimano missed the boat is the idea of total gear ratio range - XO1/XX1 has that 10-42T, which yields a 4.2:1 gearing range, which can be set by the sole chainring; the advantage a 2x setup still offers is that the gear ratio range with a common, and cheap setup (24/36T x 11-36T) is closer to 5x ratio range; so nobody in their right mind is going to spend XTR set money on a 2x10 setup that adds extra gearing range without the weight savings, especially since hardly anybody actually uses a gearing range of greater than 5:1 low to high, so those extra gears are unlikely to find a use, even in a lightweight do-everything XC-Enduro bike.

This just makes the SRAM X9 Type 2 based 1x10 11-42T setups with One-Up or WolfTooth big rings all the more attractive; for those who don't care much about weight the PG1030 cassette will work, and the cheaper raceface narrow/wide chainrings mean that Shimano is really only aiming at the OEM market with this XTR set... and they're behind.

you underestimate the dedication of shimano fanboys. They'll ignore price and late technology just to say they don't ride Sram. I hope that with another 1x11 setup on the market with which Sram has to compete, prices MAY start to become reasonable on XX1 or X01 groups, but I fear that that may be wishful thinking.

 

[d365]

The advantage that I see, is in the ability to go 1x or 2x, without too much hassle. I'm building up a new bike soon, so I'm debating drivetrains. I've never used anything but 3x up to this point, and I'm not sure if I'd like xx1, because I would probably have to use a 28 ring. Having the option to try 1x, and easily go to 2x is appealing to me... although I think xx1 seems like the best gear range for a 1x system, for someone like myself (love me some granny).

 

[TwoTone]

So, how many of you have seen this new drivetrain? Anyone there at Sea Otter who tried it?

For me, I don't understand why they made it to require a derailed system. What the heck? Do they not
know that SRAM has been killing it with their no derailed system? Do they not understand that riders like
this? I'm a bit let down with this introduction, I was expecting much more from Shimano, especially for XTR
group. Love the brakes, but as far as holding out any longer for their offering I'll go SRAM XX1. I have a
feeling Shimano is going to take a big PR hit on this one. THey'll be nailed to the wall on this bad deal.

It seems like this derailed system is here because the
chainring looks like a regular chainring, the teeth don't seem to be what SRAM did to innovate teeth that
will keep the chain from coming off. Thoughts anyone???

Boothstorming Sea Otter: Shimano highlights new XTR 11-speed group | Mountain Bike Review

Hot News: Shimano releases new 11-speed XTR group with 1x, 2x and 3x configurations | Mountain Bike Review

Not everyone wants 1x. I had to because my new frame doesn't allow for a FD, but here on the east coast a lot of my trails are quick up and downs. I personally like being able to pedal down, then dump the front ring, climb and then go back up on the front ring for the next downhill.

 

[-Todd-]

Not everyone wants 1x. I had to because my new frame doesn't allow for a FD, but here on the east coast a lot of my trails are quick up and downs. I personally like being able to pedal down, then dump the front ring, climb and then go back up on the front ring for the next downhill.

My buddy said the exact same thing, the granny dump is a key move on the quick up & downs

 

[smilinsteve]

They should have gone with a 43 T granny, just for the sake of progress and a great marketing ploy.

They should have stuck with 10 speeds, which is more than enough. When are we going to get to the point where a wider chain and bigger spacing between gears is actually recognized as a positive selling point?

 

[Ronnie]

The last time I looked SRAM was still making XX components with multiple chain rings. There is a place for the likes of XX1 single ring drive trains but it is not for everyone riding in all places. It is my contention that many people that are rushing to adopt a single chain ring drive train are following fashion and will eventually go back to multiple rings. It is simply more versatile. I couldn't care less about a few ounces and from my experience a good front derailleur has been trouble free.

When I fist heard about the system I thought it would be great to loose the front derailleur and associated hardware but upon closer evaluation I realized that it is in fact inadequate (for me). I'm still riding a XT nine speed 11/34T cassette and 22/32T chain rings on a Paradox. This drive train was great when I lived on the East Coast but six months ago I moved to the San Francisco area. Some climbs around here are brutal and I'm looking for a lower gear or two. XX1 28T ring and 42T cog is in fact a higher ratio than my current 22 and 34T combination so there is no point for me. However, a XTR group with 11/40T and 24/34 rings would give me more gears on both ends. not that I need higher gears.

Another thing to consider with 1X drive trains is that the chain is being used at angles on the cassette that we were always told to avoid on our multiple chain ring systems. These cassettes have narrower cogs are going to wear out a lot faster and are around $300 each.

 

[smilinsteve]

The last time I looked SRAM was still making XX components with multiple chain rings. There is a place for the likes of XX1 single ring drive trains but it is not for everyone riding in all places. It is my contention that many people that are rushing to adopt a single chain ring drive train are following fashion and will eventually go back to multiple rings. It is simply more versatile. I couldn't care less about a few ounces and from my experience a good front derailleur has been trouble free.

I agree

When I fist heard about the system I thought it would be great to loose the front derailleur and associated hardware but upon closer evaluation I realized that it is in fact inadequate (for me). I'm still riding a XT nine speed 11/34T cassette and 22/32T chain rings on a Paradox. This drive train was great when I lived on the East Coast but six months ago I moved to the San Francisco area. Some climbs around here are brutal and I'm looking for a lower gear or two.

I ended up going with 20/32T chainrings with 11-34 for the crazy Colorado uphills. I still use it, but my new bike is XO1.

XX1 28T ring and 42T cog is in fact a higher ratio than my current 22 and 34T combination so there is no point for me.

Slightly, but very close. On my XO1 I'm using a 26T ring, since low gears are my priority. Its a new set up for me, but in my few miles of testing, I haven't wished for any higher gears.

However, a XTR group with 11/40T and 24/34 rings would give me more gears on both ends. not that I need higher gears.

Or stick with your 9 speed and get a 12-36 cassette (not any light weight choices however), or the 20 T chainring (will probably have to do a little filing on the crankset to make it work).

Another thing to consider with 1X drive trains is that the chain is being used at angles on the cassette that we were always told to avoid on our multiple chain ring systems.

The angles should be pretty moderate if you are set up with proper chain line, and your single ring sits in line with the center of the cassette (where the middle ring sits on a 3x crank.)

These cassettes have narrower cogs are going to wear out a lot faster and are around $300 each.

I agree the price is ridiculous, and narrow probably does mean more wear.
On the other hand, on my 2X system, I spend most of the time on the larger cassette cogs (switching from small to big in the front and staying near the top in the back).
With my 1X, I am using more of the cassette, going from top to bottom to get the gears I need, so maybe spreading out the usage of each cog will reduce the wear rate of any one cog.
Good post.

 

[hillharman]

My buddy said the exact same thing, the granny dump is a key move on the quick up & downs

This is the only thing I miss about my 2x10 set up (riding 1x10 now).

 

[slowride454]

that 3 x 11 system sounds good to me. you can crawl with a 22 x 40 gear ratio...even on a 29+ platform.

 

[hillharman]

that 3 x 11 system sounds good to me. you can crawl with a 22 x 40 gear ratio...even on a 29+ platform.

How fast are you planning on pedaling that 29+ bike?