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Keep on Rockin...
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Here out east I find mtb drive trains way too tall. I've got no problem pushing tall gears as for many years I rode a 2:1 SS. But on a gear FS, especially a 29er, I find anything beyond a 36x11 way over kill. Even when I ride out west I've done fine with a 32 front ring.

Anybody who disagrees needs to post a pic of their worn out 11t rear cog.

Shimano's 2x10 does work really well. The only thing I'd change is making the big cookie up front a 36t, not a 38t.

With that said, if I could get the XX1 to fit my King hubs, I'd be on it.
 

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Armature speller
Unit, Anthem, Stumpy, Secteur
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I find 10 speed 11-36 is too fine grained for my lightweight hardtail (2 gears per shift all the time), but just right for the heavier fully.

I'd like a 9 speed 11-34 with an additional 38 bunged on.
 

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FWIW, I find some of the gaps (especially 18-21 and 24-28) on the 11-36 annoying, and prefer the 11-32 or 11-34. What'd be good for me is an 11-34 with a 39 or 40T cog instead of the 11T; 11 is overkill with 29" wheels. (Sorry Nigel.)
 

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Carbon & Ti rule
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FWIW, I find some of the gaps (especially 18-21 and 24-28) on the 11-36 annoying, and prefer the 11-32 or 11-34. What'd be good for me is an 11-34 with a 39 or 40T cog instead of the 11T; 11 is overkill with 29" wheels. (Sorry Nigel.)
I'm not sure you understand how gearing works, If you think 11t is over kill for a 29er.

It all depends on what front chain ring size you run.
 

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I understand how gearing works fine; I just don't have any use for an 11T cog with any of the double chainwheel sets out there, as anything over ~75-80" sees only occasional use and anything over 90" is useless for me. Since I do need to ride on the road to get to off-road stuff, 1x wouldn't give enough range at the high end if I could get a small enough ring to get a liveable low gear.

IMHO, chainwheel sets - especially from Shimano - have larger chainwheels than are useful for >26" wheels; SRAM at least offer 36x22. Yeah, I know most people don't like to or know how to spin, but that isn't a good reason to penalise those of us who do.
 

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Carbon & Ti rule
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I understand how gearing works fine; I just don't have any use for an 11T cog with any of the double chainwheel sets out there, as anything over ~75-80" sees only occasional use and anything over 90" is useless for me. Since I do need to ride on the road to get to off-road stuff, 1x wouldn't give enough range at the high end if I could get a small enough ring to get a liveable low gear.

IMHO, chainwheel sets - especially from Shimano - have larger chainwheels than are useful for >26" wheels; SRAM at least offer 36x22. Yeah, I know most people don't like to or know how to spin, but that isn't a good reason to penalise those of us who do.
Ok so it is the fact that this is a thread about 1x11 you don't get
 

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You really are trying to be difficult aren't you? I get that (and 1x11) fine too, but Shimano have no product yet, so in the meantime (if anything ever appears that is) it'd be nice to be able to use what there is, possibly by adding a larger cog(s), which is what some people are doing. I could live with XX1 okay apart from the cost, but this is a thread in what is allegedly the *Shimano* section of the site, so XX1 isn't really kosher.
 

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My hope they'll introduce somthing like this

- 11 speed cassettes in the range of, say, 10-34, 10-38 and 10-42.
- A dedicated single ring crank set
- Close ratio double crank sets like 22-34, 24-36 and 26-38. These are suitable for all wheel sizes and will make for compact, well shifting FD's
- No triple crank sets anymore. Imho the 2x11 will make triples obsolete.
 

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I brought up exactly the same thing earlier in this thread and few people seemed to get it. I still like the idea, not of doubling it but of reducing it by 20% or so. I don't believe in 9 or 10 tooth cogs, but I would like to see an 11-tooth with a 20% smaller diameter, to add range that way. Keep the diameter of everything else about the same (just with about 20% more teeth). Better range, better ratios because your gear changes would be more uniform from one to the next. Poorer chain retention, but haven't we improved that significantly? I haven't dropped a chain from anything other than front shifting ever since getting Shadow+.
Mechanical advantage (gear ratios) are a factor of diameter, not the number of teeth on a cog. Reducing pitch by 20% would do nothing to gear ratios (mechanical advantage), and would likely negatively affect shifting performance.

Look up angular velocity if you'd like more information on this concept.
 

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^ What might make some sense would be to reduce the pitch a bit and increase the number of teeth on the cogs to compensate. The net result would be less load per tooth and more durability, but at the expense of non-compatibility. The chain would handle deflection better as there'd be more links, and so better lateral flexibility.

Regardless, this will probably never happen, as Shimano already tried with 10mm pitch track stuff in the 1970s with "Dura-Ace 10". While it worked well, market resistance due to non-compatibility killed it after a few years, and Shimano never released their planned road group.

Also, de lars cuevas: I agree with you, but won't hold my breath while I wait. :-(
 

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I have an XT 10-speed drivetrain (11-36 cassette) but with an X0 crankset set up 22/33/bash. The only time I'll use the 33x11 top gear is on pavement, and I almost never ride on pavement. I have XX1 on another bike with a 30t chainring, and I also only use the 10t cog on pavement. I ride east coast technical terrain.

So, for me, I think a 10-speed 11-42t cassette with a 30t chainring would work well. If Shimano makes a wide range cassette like this I will convert my 2x10 XT drivetrain to 1x10. The nice thing about this option is that it would just require a new cassette and chainring, not a whole new drivetrain.
 

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Just added the Mirfe 42t onto the shimano 28-32-36 (from their 11-36) to my canfield 9t microhub, with a 28t chainring up front, for the gear spread:
9-11-13-16-19-24-28-32-36-42

Perfect!

Big jump between 19 and 24, but don't seem to notice it on the trail - as I spend most of my time in 24-42 climbing and 9-16 descending. I was surprised how many times i find myself in 28/9 descending rock gardens - otherwise only use it on paved downhill runs - 28/11 for flat paved.

28/42 is equivalent to the old school granny 22/34
and
28/9 is equivalent to 44/14 on old school triple crank

both ends very usable!

shifting smooth as butter!
 

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I think Shimano's answer the 1x11 will be electronic gruppos. Ever ridden DI2? It works amazingly well. Wouldn't be surprised in Shimano made a 2x10 electronic gruppo with (at least an option for) single-shifter operation. That is, you just click through the gears and the system decides when to go from big to small ring for you. Seems nuts but DI2 is really that smooth on front shifts; the system can "see" where your cranks are and time the FD push to the ramps and pins. I actually think that'd be pretty sweet (though probably very $$)
 

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I think Shimano's answer the 1x11 will be electronic gruppos. Ever ridden DI2? It works amazingly well. Wouldn't be surprised in Shimano made a 2x10 electronic gruppo with (at least an option for) single-shifter operation. That is, you just click through the gears and the system decides when to go from big to small ring for you. Seems nuts but DI2 is really that smooth on front shifts; the system can "see" where your cranks are and time the FD push to the ramps and pins. I actually think that'd be pretty sweet (though probably very $$)
I would hate that. I saw something like that on a video. I like being able to just drop the front chainring if I need to. Having to shift through all the gears to get to a low bail out gear, seems limiting to me. Add the fact that I'd pay almost as much as a bike to be limited- no thanks.
 

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Yeah, I don't think it'd be very popular, and I for one wouldn't pay what they'd likely ask for it. But spy shots of electronic XTR are already out there. I think Shimano assumed that was the future and has been a bit blind-sided by the 1x11 stuff.

I'm sure most Shimano users join me in wishing Shimano would do a dedicated 1x11. SRAM's new groups look great, but after years on both Shimano and SRAM (and Campy on the road) I'm very wary of the reliability and durability of SRAM.
 

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Yeah, I don't think it'd be very popular, and I for one wouldn't pay what they'd likely ask for it. But spy shots of electronic XTR are already out there. I think Shimano assumed that was the future and has been a bit blind-sided by the 1x11 stuff.

I'm sure most Shimano users join me in wishing Shimano would do a dedicated 1x11. SRAM's new groups look great, but after years on both Shimano and SRAM (and Campy on the road) I'm very wary of the reliability and durability of SRAM.
I'm not too worried about if they do. I have a General Lee cassette on the way, works with everything I have, decent price.
 

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The Gen. Lee or various 42T extra ring options do look promising. Unfortunately I just don't think I can get the gear range I need with less than a 10-42 spread. Living in big mountains is great, but it does require the right gears. I've messed around with gear calculators and come to the conclusion than short of XX1, I'll be staying with a double.

Side note: on top of not liking SRAM, I have a problem with spending $400 on a cassette. Here in the PNW I ride in the mud a LOT, and drivetrains wear out pretty fast.
 

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... I have a problem with spending $400 on a cassette. Here in the PNW I ride in the mud a LOT, and drivetrains wear out pretty fast.
That's my biggest beef: an awful lot of cheese for something made to wear out. Yet a lot of folks have been convinced that it's worth it, or not an unreasonable expense.

I'm hoping for a 10-spd wide range with manageable gaps/steps, such as:

12-38: 12-14-16-18-21-24-27-30-34-38
12-39: 12-14-16-18-21-24-27-31-35-39
12-40: 12-14-16-18-21-24-28-32-36-40
13-40: 13-15-17-19-22-25-28-32-36-40

I especially like the last one. And yes, I could live without an 11 or 12 for my style and area...but then I primarily ride singlespeed 29er these days, with a 2:1 ratio.
 

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Carbon & Ti rule
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That gearing may work for some, But really lacks range.

The XX1/X01 has a 420% range.

Were as the 13-40 ha 307% range.

Std 11-36 has a 327% range.

Although it is clear some people don't need as much of a gear spread, for most with those gear options they would either miss out on top end or bottom end.

The Shimano group would need to be built for the masses & there are still plenty of people that think that the XX1's 420% range isn't wide enough.

That's my biggest beef: an awful lot of cheese for something made to wear out. Yet a lot of folks have been convinced that it's worth it, or not an unreasonable expense.

I'm hoping for a 10-spd wide range with manageable gaps/steps, such as:

12-38: 12-14-16-18-21-24-27-30-34-38
12-39: 12-14-16-18-21-24-27-31-35-39
12-40: 12-14-16-18-21-24-28-32-36-40
13-40: 13-15-17-19-22-25-28-32-36-40

I especially like the last one. And yes, I could live without an 11 or 12 for my style and area...but then I primarily ride singlespeed 29er these days, with a 2:1 ratio.
 
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