[Energ8t]

So more non industry people telling me who actually worked in the industry whats what. Yea still wrong.

If you want to learn fine, if you just want to keep going with same BS that's fine too, but expect to be called out on it.

Here are just a few of the TSBs on my Legacy. I've experienced non of them and they don't happen to all vehicles and are not safety related hence no RECALL. These help guide Techs when there may a weird issue that a customer may complain about.

Yes, these aren't worthy of a safety recall. These are basically simple fixes.

I think some have posed the argument that what may be deemed a TSB or simple warranty should be a recall. This is the gray area I believe many are calling a “silent recall” whether it's real or should be called that as you've laid out. As I mentioned previously, the issue is likely still newish for Shimano and fixes take time to verify and properly address. That's the "gray area" we're in.

What still is unclear to the consumer is if the spring is serviceable at the factory or junked for a replacement. If the spring is affecting all units to date, or simply a bad batch. If the replacement warranty unit is the same exact part or a factory addressed fix to the actual problem.

The big problem for me is that this is not a repairable shifter either on-trail or in the shop. No way to be prepared during a ride other than bringing an entire extra shifter and cable on ride. That's not a reasonable expectation of preparedness.

When I called Shimano yesterday, the rep told me they never hear about any reason or specific updates to product or whether the proposed replacement has addressed the problem. He also didn't tell need of others had complained about the issue I had. He only knew about whether people had been complaining about replacements. But that still isn't a clear solution for the consumer about the specific problem; lack of clarity.

The problem for Shimano is whether or not I will keep my drivetrain or move to SRAM. I don't care about anything other than a reliable bike. Period.
I don't really want to be stranded again. The way they keep me is through clarity and communication, not just sending a new part and pretending it's just a warranty and my problem may or may not persist as it has for others reporting in this forum. That's avoidance which leads to lack of confidence.

At this rate, I'd just as likely replace my drivetrain IF they continue to be unclear. All I would need is a "Yes, we have addressed the problem. A full fix is coming in two months. In the meantime, here is a replacement shifter. We'll send the new shifter out and notify you be email." OR simply a "We're aware of the problem. We're looking into it. We will contact you shortly."


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[Oh My Sack!]

Though it would be a real pisser to deal with on a high end component, this is hardly a "recall" issue anymore than getting a thorn in your tire or busting a chain pin.

I have dealt with a couple Shimano foibles in the past. They're NOT going to let a defect on a top end, uber popular product go on without correction. They never have in my experience. A few years ago the ever popular (still) XT brakes had an issue that crept into the market. Some experienced it, some didn't. In nearly identical fashion, some that returned the brakes to Shimano got a new replacement of the same problematic setup. CS Reps weren't apprised of the engineering problem, they just sent out new brakes. Eventually, the inner working of the master cylinder was modified and just like that, the problem went away forever.

As I mentioned in my post of my desire to even find a 9100 series shifter with a clamp, they are unobtainable and the availability date is unknown and listed as several weeks for delivery on many big store sites. Just guessing but I'd bet corrections are being determined and we'll start seeing the modified component on the shelves in due time.

 

[Energ8t]

Though it would be a real pisser to deal with on a high end component, this is hardly a "recall" issue anymore than getting a thorn in your tire or busting a chain pin.

I have dealt with a couple Shimano foibles in the past. They're NOT going to let a defect on a top end, uber popular product go on without correction. They never have in my experience. A few years ago the ever popular (still) XT brakes had an issue that crept into the market. Some experienced it, some didn't. In nearly identical fashion, some that returned the brakes to Shimano got a new replacement of the same problematic setup. CS Reps weren't apprised of the engineering problem, they just sent out new brakes. Eventually, the inner working of the master cylinder was modified and just like yhat, the problem went away forever.

As I mentioned in my post of my desire to even find a 9100 series shifter with a clamp, they are unobtainable and the availability date is unknown and listed as several weeks for delivery on many big store sites. Just guessing but I'd bet corrections are being determined and we'll start seeing the modified component on the shelves in due time.

I carry extra tubes, chain links/tool, etc. The problems you mentioned ARE trail serviceable and can be expected everyday failures. The shifter spring fail (after three months) is NOT serviceable on-trail or in LBS. This issue is not a normal expectation as I clearly explained. Again, there are different kinds of recalls that could be carried out; safety, voluntary, TSB... Whatever. It's def not an immediate fall danger which most recalls are.

I agree Shimano is or likely has dealt with this issue, but not being clear to the consumer will lose steam as an effective approach very soon.


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[Oh My Sack!]

It is serviceable. Ever heard of a single speed? I've had derailleur cages stuffed into spokes rendering the RD unusable amongst other things similar, including destroyed sidewalls that aren't reparable and force a walk out. There's a myriad of mechanical things that can happen to riders in th back country. Mountain bikers are known to carry out their dead. A bad shifter is just one of those things. It'll get worked out if it hasn't been already.

 

[Energ8t]

It is serviceable. Ever heard of a single speed? I've had derailleur cages stuffed into spokes rendering the RD unusable amongst other things similar, including destroyed sidewalls that aren't reparable and force a walk out. There's a myriad of mechanical things that can happen to riders in th back country. Mountain bikers are known to carry out their dead. A bad shifter is just one of those things. It'll get worked out if it hasn't been already.

What does a single-speed have to do with anything? Single-speeds are designed to be ridden in that gear the entire ride.

I'm not saying problems never or shouldn't occur which results in a bad situation or that it's Shimano's responsibility if failure occurs in all instances with their parts.

Mechanicals are usually due to a rider cause (excess wear, lack of proper care, crashes, rider error) or random one-off defects. Tires can be considered expendables and long distance riders often carry extras on a ride due to that.

The shifter spring is a known manufacturer defect to admittedly unknown degree, but not a one-off and not related to the aforementioned rider causes, it's completely different. It is not, in itself, serviceable beyond Jerry-rigging other parts. I took it apart and checked it out. No way too fix it without modification. Based on my call to Shimano CS yesterday, nothing was admitted or mentioned beyond "will send you a new one in December".

You are correct in my opinion, Shimano is on it, we just don't know anything since they haven't communicated or admitted anything.


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[bikercr]

Thank you for reporting what Shimano told you. They are playing their cards close, as always. If they admit the problem publicly in any way, they will have a nightmare to deal with. So they're going the warranty replacement route as they did with me. As long as the problem is truly corrected, I'll be happy.

 

[jestep]

A few years ago the ever popular (still) XT brakes had an issue that crept into the market. Some experienced it, some didn't. In nearly identical fashion, some that returned the brakes to Shimano got a new replacement of the same problematic setup.

Are you referring to the wandering bite point in XT and XTR brakes that started around 2010 or another issue? Unless they fixed it in the 9100 group, the bite point problems were still there in M8000/M9020 groups which puts a lack of a comprehensive fix at almost 9 years for an issue that can easily be considered safety related.

 

[Oh My Sack!]

No. It only goes back a few years with 8000's right after 785's. I don't even recall the symptom anymore but the fix as I was told by a Shimano tech was there was an internal port that was too small in the master and as I recall, it affected the return of fluid or something to that degree. I had it, many had it, and Shimano replaced them with some bad ones, again but then the fixed production trickled in and that was that.

 

[wschruba]

No. It only goes back a few years with 8000's right after 785's. I don't even recall the symptom anymore but the fix as I was told by a Shimano tech was there was an internal port that was too small in the master and as I recall, it affected the return of fluid or something to that degree. I had it, many had it, and Shimano replaced them with some bad ones, again but then the fixed production trickled in and that was that.

I could [helpfully?] point out that a wandering lever can also be indicative of bubbles in the brake caliper, but people tend to get angry when you "imply" that they didn't do a good job bleeding the system.

 

[bootsie_cat]

I am chiming one- I am on my 3rd XTR 9100 shifter (in a 6 month period) on one bike.
But my other bike has had the original 9100 shifter and it is fine- ~18 months on that one.

 

[Jayem]

I could [helpfully?] point out that a wandering lever can also be indicative of bubbles in the brake caliper, but people tend to get angry when you "imply" that they didn't do a good job bleeding the system.

This is idiotic, the issue is well known and documented. Besides, a bad bleed wouldn’t create the problem of the fluid not returning into the port.

 

[jgdblue]

I have the exact same issue with my M9100 12 speed XTR shifter. Failed spring, no resistance on big lever to shift into an easier gear. I had taken it into my LBS for a warranty replacement, just waiting on the new shifter from Shimano.

On another note, I bought a Deore M6100 shifter to get me by in the meantime, and that thing works just as smooth and precise as the XTR shifter did, I am beyond impressed with that $30 shifter. If my XTR stuff breaks after the warranty is up, I will definately not be replacing it with new XTR.

 

[bikercr]

I have the exact same issue with my M9100 12 speed XTR shifter. Failed spring, no resistance on big lever to shift into an easier gear. I had taken it into my LBS for a warranty replacement, just waiting on the new shifter from Shimano.

On another note, I bought a Deore M6100 shifter to get me by in the meantime, and that thing works just as smooth and precise as the XTR shifter did, I am beyond impressed with that $30 shifter. If my XTR stuff breaks after the warranty is up, I will definately not be replacing it with new XTR.

I've got a running count of 18 defective Shimano XT and XTR 12sp shift levers now reported on this single forum thread (both sides of the Atlantic). MUCH THANKS to all of you for helping bring this widespread design/manufacturing defect to light.

 

[cybis]

FWIW, here are pics of the original SL-M9100 that came with my bike in March (and failed) vs a replacement I bought in October. I don’t know yet if the October one will be more reliable.
March:

October:

 

[bikercr]

Your March pic shows the 11/12 speed adjustable shifter. The October replacement is the fixed 12 speed one. I've had both models fail: one 11-12 unit and three 12-sp-only ones. I was hoping there would be some external indication of an 'upgraded' unit with a revised spring design. Either the rocker spring hasn't been upgraded yet by Shimano or there's no obvious way to determine that from the shifter externals. Because Shimano hasn't publicly acknowledged the issue, we're all left with uncertainty whether warranty-replaced shifters will fail the in same way or not.

 

[Oh My Sack!]

FYI, that little tiny sticker it/OJ or it/SE is your key to production dating. That's what you want to track closely. If you can get with Shimano and have them decode, you'll key in production dates. That's exactly how we did it on the brakes. There was a known cut off point where everything after a certain alphabetical point was new production.

 

[cybis]

FYI, that little tiny sticker it/OJ or it/SE is your key to production dating. That's what you want to track closely. If you can get with Shimano and have them decode, you'll key in production dates. That's exactly how we did it on the brakes. There was a known cut off point where everything after a certain alphabetical point was new production.

Oh, that’s great! So, if I extrapolate from the information on this site Date of Manufacture of Bicycle Components can be used to date a bike: component dating I get SE = May 2020, and OJ would be October 2016? Did shimano even make this shifter in 2016?? Hmm. I’m probably way off.

 

[bikercr]

12 speed XTR I believe was released in 2018. Trickle down to XT and SLX, 2019. Definitely not in 2016 for the M9100 system.

 

[cybis]

12 speed XTR I believe was released in 2018. Trickle down to XT and SLX, 2019. Definitely not in 2016 for the M9100 system.

Oh I see the problem it’s a Q not an O. So QJ is October 2018.

S 2020
R 2019
Q 2018
P 2017

A January
B February
C March
D April
E May
F June
G July
H August
I Septembre
J October
K November
L December

Does anyone else have a date stamp on a failed shifter to share?

 

[bikercr]

Yes, I do. Failed XTR M9100 shift lever with Date Code 'RK': November, 2019. This was the new warranty replacement for my second failed lever. Got this from my LBS. Lasted about 2-3 weeks before breaking. I sent the guts into Shimano and kept the housing and clamp. That's how I have the code.

The two replacement levers I received directly from Shimano USA this past summer have codes 'RI': September, 2019. These haven't broken yet but I've used one for only 6 weeks or so and the other is barely used (on my fat bike set up for winter). I'm now pretty sure they'll both eventually fail because they're older than third lever that broke (first paragraph).