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Discussion Starter · #61 ·
jibmaster said:
I admire the balls of posting this topic on this sight, jcdill.
I was rooting for you. Really. I was. I have never had conflicts with horses or their owners and share the trails with equestrians regularly.
Thank you! I'm glad you have a great time sharing the trails with horses.

jibmaster said:
You are outnumbered jcdill. On this site and in real life.
More power to you with your quest of aligning mt. bikers and equestrians.
Of course I'm outnumbered - there are very few people who try to help mountain bikers and equestrians get along better. That doesn't mean I'm going to give up. I know I'm not going to convince everyone, but if I can reach even just a few people and help bridge this gap, slowly, one person at a time, then it's worthwhile.
 

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I came for the insight

- Thought jcdill might have some insight

-Watched it get challenged

-Saw her stumble, then lash out

-Absolutely enjoyed a bunny with a pancake on its head Bravo!

-Hung around out of morbid fascination a little longer

-Realized Menso completely summed it up for me and how I feel

-Am outta here!

Fun ride, thanks everyone!
 

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Ride Responsibly
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"Of course I'm outnumbered - there are very few people who try to help mountain bikers and equestrians get along better. That doesn't mean I'm going to give up. I know I'm not going to convince everyone, but if I can reach even just a few people and help bridge this gap, slowly, one person at a time, then it's worthwhile."
Sorry, your idea on "getting along" seems to hinge on "stay off trails closed to you", "leave trails closed to you of your want list", and "never question a horses right to be there".
In Oroville, equestrians poach as much if not more than cyclist, there are also equestrians who regularly run people off trails by riding irresponsibly.
Ever notice how when someone provide an argument that can not be answered, that argument just gets ignored?
I like equestrians in general and want them to continue to have trail access, but when any new Connie Berto wannabe pops up and starts spewing vile and calls it help, well it make me a little angry to say the least.
 

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Discussion Starter · #64 ·
LWright said:
In Oroville, equestrians poach as much if not more than cyclist,
I haven't ridden in Oroville, but I'm going to assume you are correct about the trails in your area. What I recommend you do is take photos (doesn't everyone have a camera/phone now?) documenting the horses that are on non-horse trails. This will help you case when you want to get more trails opened up for bikes, showing that the horse riders (in your area) aren't so afraid of bikes that they venture on to bike trails that are closed to horses.

I'm not afraid to speak up against horse riders when they behave badly. I'm not in favor of either group breaking rules or behaving badly. If we all worked harder to get along and follow the rules it would benefit everyone. Those who don't want to get along, don't want to follow the rules - those are the ones who cause the bulk of the problems.
 

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The only reason 90% of the trails in Oroville are not shared use is due to an equestrian in a high place with little to no oversight, using her position to impose her personal agenda over the wishes of the CA Dept. of Parks and Recreation. No amount of science or sound practices has prevailed over this prejudice. the only chance to expose this crime is to take it to federal court, and sadly I do not have the funding to do that or I would have already done so.
The trails being closed to horses has had one positive effect, I have meet and am working with responsible equestrians to reopen trails, if we ever get past the prejudiced federal worker, much could be accomplished.
 

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Discussion Starter · #66 ·
LWright said:
I have meet and am working with responsible equestrians to reopen trails, if we ever get past the prejudiced federal worker, much could be accomplished.
Please let me know when you need pro-bike equestrians to come speak up when you have public meetings. If I can make it, I'll be there.
 

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Problem is, you have not seemed really "pro bike" to me, more like hooray for bikes as long as they stay away from trails you think should be horse only. And "everything would be fine if we all played by the rules" even if those rules are based on prejudice and emotion, rather than sound policy and facts.

When a horse bolts or shy's, and puts anyone's health in danger, who is to blame? The only answer can be the person in charge of controlling the horse, not the bike or the snake or whatever.
 

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Ok you uhooked me.

jcdill said:
The question is WHY are there more road cyclists than road equestrians?
There are way more and by way more I mean millions of more road bikers than horsie riders is because most of us cannot afford a horse. You should be dragged behind your mule for even thinking that any or some of us will feel for your sport since we have had to endure the ridicule and pain of your sport. Now lets bring in the MTB's, you really suck. Well maybe I don't have the words but really suck is all I can come up with. There are millions of miles for horse people and maybe 10000 for MTBers so I have to say "get off your high horse" and quit pretending to be one of us because you are not. As for kids and new riders in your sport, keep them in a controlled environment. It is an animal after all is it not? I'm saddened by the fact that some people will trust their children on a 2000 pound animal but will do everything to stop a 25 pound mechanical object from earning their respect. Go figure, money talks. Horse people mostly suck.
 

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Dogs

lostinstates said:
their numbers are dwindling and ours are rising!
sweet!it's just a matter of time before it's only us and the hikers.....and those dogs.
I do like the Dogs.
 

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Last time I checked a horse was a pet !!! I'm mean jcdill do you pay your horse for it's job??? Personally I hate when a horse has been on a trail leaving behind huge pot holes and smelly poop. I don't seeing any bikers doing that in the middle of a trail
 

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jcdill said:
Horse riders used to ride in the MidPen parks much more frequently than they do today. There used to be many more horses riding in Fremont Older (from Garrods and surrounding stables) and while bike riders probably still think there are "a lot" of horses on those trails, it is far fewer than it was a few years ago as many of the horse riders at the nearby stables consider the bikes "too dangerous" and fear riding on the trails now.

If you were to go to any large stable in the peninsula and ask about riding in the trails and parks nearby, I'm sure it wouldn't take but a few minutes for someone to say "oh, we never ride at X anymore, too many bikes, too dangerous".



Yes, you are correct for most of the trails around the bay. But you haven't ridden at Waterdog yet, have you Anne? Most of the trails at Waterdog are fairly steep, narrow, and technical compared with, say, China Camp or Fort Ord, and are a lot of fun for more advanced riders. Also, Bayfront has hills - there's not a lot of trails (it's a small park) but it's not just flat biking like at Baylands.

I'm not saying there's a plethora of bike-only parks and trails, but there are some. There also isn't a plethora of horse-only parks. Unfortunately (for horse riders), the horse-only parks and trails don't stay that way because of poachers. I never see signs of horses (hoofprints, manure) in the bike-only parks, but horse riders regularly see bike tire marks in horse-only parks. So even if the poacher didn't encounter anyone while poaching on non-bike trails, there was a sign that a bike was there, breaking the rules.
Ouestion:confused:
If I take my dog to a multi use trail system and he takes a dump in the middle of the trail,can I leave it there for all to avoid if I call it manure?
 

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Berkeley Mike said:
People will give you all kinds of reason why they need not share and reinforce it with finger pointing, hyperbole, political muscle and self-righteousness. The days of that kind of sway are numbered as that has become all too transparent. Your take on why equestrians are so "protective" (I would call it hoarding) and mine are very different. I suggest the desperation of a diminishing power-base in the face of a population which has been unfairly discriminated against and fast gaining momentum.
Mike, I am curious why multi use trails are considered unrealistic by some here in NorCal. Annadel is a great example of a multi use trail system with great singletrack. Is most of this hi-tension discussion related to Marin County/East Bay specifically?

It seems to get so toxic so quick on MTBR. Seems like JC was trying to make a multi use discussion and was pointing out some realistic issues without any real hysteria.

I see the roads roadies use around here and it boggles my mind that anyone would want to ride them. My wife did here last roadie ride on the road that goes out from Petaluma to the beach. She showed me the blind corner where she heard squealing tires coming up behind her and thought it was over. Road bikes make good trainers in the house! Of course that's just me as I like to be scared by steep terrain, big rocks and sick exposure.

I think it sucks that any user group attempts to exclude another in the non-motorized recreation arena. Seems like Sonoma County has it right with the way they do it. I started working with Sonoma Trails Council and they are an access for all advocate. Having spent my life where equal access is the norm, I can see why there are so many bitter folks in the Marin area with all the nimbys and naysayers trying to keep bikes out.

I hope to get to talk to you one day soon and get more perspective on the issues from your POV.

Michael
 

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While 8.5 out of every 10 equestrians I cross paths with in the Folsom Lake area are really nice and friendly... I still always wonder, "What is so much fun about riding a horse?" Especially on a trail. Seems kinda boring.
 

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Multi-use trails are considered untenable by equestrians

They have control over trails, have it just the way they want it, thank you very much, and see no reason why they should share and alter their experience.
 

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jcdill said:
There are many parks where equestrians are allowed but rarely ride (anymore) because of all the bikes. These parks have effectively become mountain-bike-only parks. This is why equestrians are all the more unwilling to open up new parks and trails to bikes - they cherish the few parks they can still ride in without fear of encountering bikes.

The first serious bike accident I had was caused by another (much more skilled) rider who rode carelessly, braked and swerved into me on a wide road.
Very few people ride their horse to the park. Mostly they have to haul the horse in a trailer. They can go ride anywhere they want.

Some children ride their mountain bike from their home to the trails. They do not have the option of driving to the trail head.

Therefore, it seems reasonable to me, that trails that are in parks that are close to housing should be reserved for mountain bikes.

This argument was presented to the Santa Clary County supervisors at least once, but I don't think they ever responded to the suggestion or even paused long enough to think about it.
 

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I have been riding in a local park yesterday, and I was not amused at the amount of horseshit on trails.

When equestrians start cleaning up after themselves?

Selfish bastards. Enslaving animals for their amusement, trashing trails, spreading lies to usurp our public lands.
 

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partsman
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i have been riding horses for 60 yrs. i rode a bike in the San Gabriel mt starting in 1953. i came across horses all the time and never had a problem. always stopped and tried to make conversation with the biker when on the horse or person on a horse when on my bike. moved up here in oct of 08 and was appalled at the narrow minded attitude of some of the people up here. we shared the trails in socal. there are very few trails down there that are closed to mountain biking. the word is share. when you do there is no problems. i was 8yrs old when i started riding a horse. and 12 when i started riding bikes in the mountains.:nono:
 

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brparts said:
i have been riding horses for 60 yrs. i rode a bike in the San Gabriel mt starting in 1953. i came across horses all the time and never had a problem. always stopped and tried to make conversation with the biker when on the horse or person on a horse when on my bike. moved up here in oct of 08 and was appalled at the narrow minded attitude of some of the people up here. we shared the trails in socal. there are very few trails down there that are closed to mountain biking. the word is share. when you do there is no problems. i was 8yrs old when i started riding a horse. and 12 when i started riding bikes in the mountains.:nono:
Glad for your experience, but have met those with total horse-love here in Woodside like it's a religion (bad enough)...unfortunately most on mountain bikes just don't participate politically like the horse crowd did a while back. Funny that even now so many guys on bikes just figure access will be there because they bought a bike...
 

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brparts said:
we shared the trails in socal. there are very few trails down there that are closed to mountain biking. the word is share. when you do there is no problems.
Well, around here they do not. They actively lobby to exclude those who can not afford, either due to lack of time or money to keep around a one ton animal, and they spread lies and FUD.

They have successfully excluded cycling from wilderness by spreading some obnoxious misinformation about cycling impact while leaving there privilege to trash it as they see fit. That is not sharing, and we should have no sympathy.
 
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