[pauly mac]

Two men with long criminal histories got caught for stealing bikes. What should S.F. do about them?

The case of two men accused of burglary in San Francisco is emblematic of the city’s...

www.sfchronicle.com

 

[singlespeed.org]

This quote from the article matches my feel:
“When it comes to the point that these are repeat offenders who are well-known,and documented— that’s probably the line,” Mission Dolores resident Justin Forth said.

I don't remember the spcifics of the law, but I agreed with th reuction in penalties for lower level crimes that was instituted a few years ago. But now I think that it should be adjusted so that those who are doing this over and over again are treated more harshly.

 

[shadowsports]

Agree, its very simple. Until real consequences for a person's illegal activities are handed down, criminals will continue to take or steal what isn't theirs.

I'm all for harsh penalties, for first time or repeat offenders This is the only real deterrent. .

 

[Cary]

I don’t have an answer to the problem, but am positive this thread will devolve into a political debate.

 

[Ktom300]

I don’t have an answer to the problem, but am positive this thread will devolve into a political debate.

In that spirit, maybe we should just pay them $450K each.

 

[Yeety]

I don’t have an answer to the problem, but am positive this thread will devolve into a political debate.

I heard the thieves ride eBikes to their residential targets. Easier to carry tools and whatnot, allows them to hit a new garage in all corners of the city every day. And it's a great way to stay in shape!

 

[Entrenador]

Who is buying stolen bikes at UN Plaza? It's got to be a lot of bikes. Lots of customers? Probably more complex than a simple thief-to-end-user situation I suppose.

 

[sa12]

I don’t have an answer to the problem, but am positive this thread will devolve into a political debate.

In this situation I always hope for the shtposts to drown out all the out-of-region political experts that will inevitably find this thread from the feed on the front page.

 

[Cary]

I heard the thieves ride eBikes to their residential targets. Easier to carry tools and whatnot, allows them to hit a new garage in all corners of the city every day. And it's a great way to stay in shape!

So what you are saying is it isn’t about the stealing, but rather physical conditioning and working towards defeating the obesity epidemic.

 

[Yeety]

So what you are saying is it isn’t about the stealing, but rather physical conditioning and working towards defeating the obesity epidemic.

I'm saying that eBikes are solely responsible for the moral degeneration of our society.

You heard it here first!

 

[Squirrel in the Spokes]

I don’t remember the specifics of the law but maybe the problem is that real crimes (stealing) and fake crimes (possession of drugs) are considered equal.

 

[Old Marine]

This quote from the article matches my feel:
“When it comes to the point that these are repeat offenders who are well-known,and documented— that’s probably the line,” Mission Dolores resident Justin Forth said.

I don't remember the spcifics of the law, but I agreed with th reuction in penalties for lower level crimes that was instituted a few years ago. But now I think that it should be adjusted so that those who are doing this over and over again are treated more harshly.

You are what is wrong with this country. I hope your ign0rance comes back to bite you in the tuckuss.

 

[blammo585]

I don’t remember the specifics of the law but maybe the problem is that real crimes (stealing) and fake crimes (possession of drugs) are considered equal.

Possession of drugs are fake crimes?

 

[tstinchy]

The real issue is inequality. In San Francisco it's especially prevalent with very poor people and very rich people riding super expensive bikes. If our poorest people don't need to steal to eat, theft will not be much of an issue. Severe consequences will not deter bike theft, it will only imprison more people, and trap more in the cycle of incarceration. Then we'll just weed out the bad criminals (who get caught) and create people who are really good at stealing bikes. Fix income inequality, make sure everyone has the basics for life, and bikes/cars/houses/phones won't be stolen in the high numbers we see now.

 

[Squirrel in the Spokes]

Possession of drugs are fake crimes?

Depends on your skin color

 

[DtEW]

The real issue is inequality. In San Francisco it's especially prevalent with very poor people and very rich people riding super expensive bikes. If our poorest people don't need to steal to eat, theft will not be much of an issue. Severe consequences will not deter bike theft, it will only imprison more people, and trap more in the cycle of incarceration. Then we'll just weed out the bad criminals (who get caught) and create people who are really good at stealing bikes. Fix income inequality, make sure everyone has the basics for life, and bikes/cars/houses/phones won't be stolen in the high numbers we see now.

While extreme inequality does heighten desperation and increase crimes-of-desperation, to pretend that it is the primary cause of material/economic crimes requires a particular set of blinders that suddenly ignores all the white-collar crime and robber-baron immorality that we liberals also like to be outraged about.

Some people will take what isn't fairly theirs (or rationalize that it is in-fact fairly theirs, contrary to other perspectives) because... people.

• Inequality increases criminality.
• Opportunity increases criminality.
• Impunity increases criminality.

The last (impunity) is unfortunately the worst, because out of these three facets it's the one that feeds back on itself. That's because there is never actually enough policing to truly control crime short of a totalitarian state. Liberal democracies rely upon internalization of laws and morality so that people police their own behavior. When it becomes plainly obvious that there is no actual repercussions (or just that the odds are so low that "a competent criminal" stands a good chance to evade it) to criminality, that internalization erodes... and criminality/victimization-of-others takes a huge leap.

To focus on a limited number of facets of the drivers of criminality is nothing more than the political stance of a politician trying to endear him/herself to a particular audience and their particular prejudices. Both sides (in the context of the American political system) are guilty of this one, at least in terms of rhetoric. I would advise you to think though beyond merely what you've been told by a politician/talking-head, and maybe see that they are only saying what they need to say for their purposes.

Also, people don't steal for food sustenance. There are easy hoops that can be jumped through for that (especially here in the Bay Area) without running afoul of the law. They steal to keep a roof over their family, gas in their tanks, cell service, and substances/experiences to deaden the pain and hopelessness of their existence.

 

[blammo585]

Depends on your skin color

Give me a freaking break.

 

[Squirrel in the Spokes]

Give me a freaking break.

IIRC the bill voted on that made breaking car windows a crime you couldn’t be arrested for was also for making small amounts of possession a crime you couldn’t be arrested for. Do you not see how small amounts of possession and thievery are entirely different things?

 

[DrDon]

While extreme inequality does heighten desperation and increase crimes-of-desperation, to pretend that it is the primary cause of material/economic crimes requires a particular set of blinders that suddenly ignores all the white-collar crime and robber-baron immorality that we liberals also like to be outraged about.

Some people will take what isn't fairly theirs (or rationalize that it is in-fact fairly theirs, contrary to other perspectives) because... people.

• Inequality increases criminality.
• Opportunity increases criminality.
• Impunity increases criminality.

The last (impunity) is unfortunately the worst, because out of these three facets it's the one that feeds back on itself. That's because there is never actually enough policing to truly control crime short of a totalitarian state. Liberal democracies rely upon internalization of laws and morality so that people police their own behavior. When it becomes plainly obvious that there is no actual repercussions (or just that the odds are so low that "a competent criminal" stands a good chance to evade it) to criminality, that internalization erodes... and criminality/victimization-of-others takes a huge leap.

To focus on a limited number of facets of the drivers of criminality is nothing more than the political stance of a politician trying to endear him/herself to a particular audience and their particular prejudices. Both sides (in the context of the American political system) are guilty of this one, at least in terms of rhetoric. I would advise you to think though beyond merely what you've been told by a politician/talking-head, and maybe see that they are only saying what they need to say for their purposes.

Also, people don't steal for food sustenance. There are easy hoops that can be jumped through for that (especially here in the Bay Area) without running afoul of the law. They steal to keep a roof over their family, gas in their tanks, cell service, and substances/experiences to deaden the pain and hopelessness of their existence.

what about my feelings of self righteous indignation?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

 

[Cary]

The real issue is inequality. In San Francisco it's especially prevalent with very poor people and very rich people riding super expensive bikes. If our poorest people don't need to steal to eat, theft will not be much of an issue. Severe consequences will not deter bike theft, it will only imprison more people, and trap more in the cycle of incarceration. Then we'll just weed out the bad criminals (who get caught) and create people who are really good at stealing bikes. Fix income inequality, make sure everyone has the basics for life, and bikes/cars/houses/phones won't be stolen in the high numbers we see now.

14 posts is the answer.