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DT riders I could do with your help again. Earlier in the year I nearly picked up a DT on sale but missed out and went with a Maelstrom, at the time I couldnt justify the full price of the DT. I am happy with the Maelstrom but I still want the DT which has been my dream bike for the last 3 years. I am glad I missed the sale cause the 2010 see changes I really want, like shorter seat tube, the reduction in weight is an added bonus and I have always wanted a raw frame. I also hear the suspension has been tweaked and I think this could be a selling point cause what I am actualy looking for right now is a trail bike. I know the DT is more than that but I am thinking of this as an investment buy.
The Maelstrom is great but there are problems and I see myself abusing it for 2 years and maybe retire it when I leave Korea. I bought it based on the fact that it could be pedalled which it can but its just not fun at 41lbs and 180mm of travel. I realise this every time I get on my Wildcard and hardtail. So I am thinking of it as my "big bike" and am going to single up front, Dh tyres full time and suspension setup for DH permanently. I have a trail I have build behind the house so it does see the action it was designed for.

So what I need to know is, how does the DT sprint and how can I get the bike set in this dirrection. The kind of riding I am really enjoying now is fast, flowy, technical trails. Loads of jumps, drops and some rock sections - think Kirt Vores. Sprinting and popping of everything with long gap jumps and supported corners. I feel like 180mm of travel up front runes this kind of trail and ideally 160mm back and front set a little firm would be perfect. I dont really want to buy a trail bike because I want the strength that something like the DT offers and I want the versatility of putting a 180mm fork and heavier wheels when this becomes my only bike I can take with me.

So I am thinking light strong wheels with standard XT goodies and a Fox 36 RC2 up front. Originaly I was thinking DHX air out back but I have been reading negatives regarding the DHX. I was hoping it would work as i could keep weight down and set the sag lower when I do more jump lines. Do you think I could get the same thing out of a coil without Pushing it since this would set the shock for one ride styel and remove adjusting it for more technical runs.

Oh, and the other bike I am considering is the Rune:D
 

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2010 DT is 170mm in the rear

juan pablo said:
DT riders I could do with your help again. Earlier in the year I nearly picked up a DT on sale but missed out and went with a Maelstrom, at the time I couldnt justify the full price of the DT. I am happy with the Maelstrom but I still want the DT which has been my dream bike for the last 3 years. I am glad I missed the sale cause the 2010 see changes I really want, like shorter seat tube, the reduction in weight is an added bonus and I have always wanted a raw frame. I also hear the suspension has been tweaked and I think this could be a selling point cause what I am actualy looking for right now is a trail bike. I know the DT is more than that but I am thinking of this as an investment buy.
The Maelstrom is great but there are problems and I see myself abusing it for 2 years and maybe retire it when I leave Korea. I bought it based on the fact that it could be pedalled which it can but its just not fun at 41lbs and 180mm of travel. I realise this every time I get on my Wildcard and hardtail. So I am thinking of it as my "big bike" and am going to single up front, Dh tyres full time and suspension setup for DH permanently. I have a trail I have build behind the house so it does see the action it was designed for.

So what I need to know is, how does the DT sprint and how can I get the bike set in this dirrection. The kind of riding I am really enjoying now is fast, flowy, technical trails. Loads of jumps, drops and some rock sections - think Kirt Vores. Sprinting and popping of everything with long gap jumps and supported corners. I feel like 180mm of travel up front runes this kind of trail and ideally 160mm back and front set a little firm would be perfect. I dont really want to buy a trail bike because I want the strength that something like the DT offers and I want the versatility of putting a 180mm fork and heavier wheels when this becomes my only bike I can take with me.

So I am thinking light strong wheels with standard XT goodies and a Fox 36 RC2 up front. Originaly I was thinking DHX air out back but I have been reading negatives regarding the DHX. I was hoping it would work as i could keep weight down and set the sag lower when I do more jump lines. Do you think I could get the same thing out of a coil without Pushing it since this would set the shock for one ride styel and remove adjusting it for more technical runs.

Oh, and the other bike I am considering is the Rune:D
What size DT are you purchasing? You might have some serious crossover if you keep your Maelstrom as the DT only has 10mm less travel (but will feel like it has 200mm!) and only weigh a few pounds less. Rumors flowing around have Fox producing a 170mm and 180 mm 36 in 2010, who knows. I can speak from experience here, the DT is better with a 180 mm fork, hands down. I had a 36 on mine and it felt a little under gunned. Minimum I would put a 170mm Lyric DH on it, especially with 170mm in the rear. I can also speak from experience that the DHX Air probably isnt optimal for the DT unless you are like 150 lbs. Definitely go coil shock with a Ti spring, it is totally worth the extra 1/2 pound to have to suppleness of a coil shock. Lots of great coils out there, DHX RC4, Cane Creek, Elka, even Diverse has a new one:
http://www.diverse-mfg.com/mtb/duelercoilshock.html
The Rune is a single pivot design, I wouldnt even go there.
My advice, sell the Maelstrom, put the money into the DT, buy a set of light wheels for trail riding and a set of heavy wheels for those "bigger" days.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Craigstr - the Rune isnt single pivot but regardless I personaly do like a good single pivot for jumping and sprinting etc The Wildcard is the funnest bike I have had to date - for what its designed to do.
I have followed the DT threads and I know where it shines. It was between the Maelstrom and the DT this year and since I wanted to step up my freeride game and start getting into DH I went with the Maelstrom for price and to try something new. All my previous rides have been 150-170mm rear travel and mostly 160mm front. While I love the stability of the longer wheel base and the xtra travel of the Maelstrom, it is not the ultimate ride for me. Seriously this bike has given me so much confidence to up my riding. I have dabbled in DH the past 6 months and I can say thats not where my riding stoke is based. If I watch DVDs, then the shore stands out as the ultimate style and trails like I see Kirt Voreis pinning just get me pumped. I think I found out what DH really is this year and I am amazed with anyone who can pin a proper DH run.
I know the DT crosses over alot with the Maelstrom and thats why I am looking for some helpfull info. I know it will shine with a coil rear and 180mm fork but thats not what I am looking for now, I have the Maelstrom for that. Unfortuntely the maelstrom cant be lightened up much more and I cant really be putting a 160mm fork on it, so I am gonna just keep trying to get the idler issue sorted and set it for big days only.
What I need is a bike thats is quick on the single track but can withstand reapeated drops and jump well. I know the DT is strong enough for anything I will ride and I know that it will be an investment bike I see myself keeping indefinatley. I know it drops well, jumps well and climbs well. It is only slightly heavier than I would like but then when the day comes that it becomes my big bike with a 180mm front, I know will handle.
What I want to know is, if I settle for a coil rear and run a 36RC2 which I already have, fit some lite/strong wheels and components will it sprint well and work as a trail ripper? I get a big grin from hammer pedals and pinning corners, back on the pedals and boosting evrything. I dont want to always feel like I have to put the fullface on with all my armour, and thats how it feels when I pull out the Maelstrom. Its hard work on the trails but point it down and its insane.

The Rune gets rave reviews, is well priced and will do what I want. It will not be as tuff as the DT and cannot replace the Maelstrom as my big bike in the furture. If I go with a Rune now I still see myself wanting a DT in the future, so I am hoping the DT will do what I want for now and adapt later as things change then its done and dusted from the get go.

Just to put it into perspective. I have a medium Wildcard which is too small for me to ride milage unfortunatley or I wouldnt be writing this thread. Since it cant really cover milage its going SS and will be a dedicated DJ/street play bike. I have a long travel hardtail which I love but my back is seriously complaining since I hit all the trails I ride the fullies on including gaps and drops. This is the bike I am trying to match the next ride with since its a trail assasin. And then there is the Maelstrom. So you can see I am covered for most types of terrain and I have finaly pinned down what I believe my riding style to be and what bike I want to match it with.

I am not in a rush to get rid of the Maelstrom cause I would really struggle to sell it in Korea, I would loose to much money and when its dialled it is really an awesome ride. I am letting it do its job of helping me progress and take all the beatings the next bike would have to take. I am also stuck with a 83mm BB and 150mm rear so again a parts swap would not work so well.
 

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I think the DT is your bike

One thing to remember is that the 2010 frame will be about one pound lighter than the previous frames and the pedaling position is greatly improved, making it much more trail friendly. With the right wheelset/tire combo and a good suspension setup the DT will be as snappy and playful as you want it to be. On the flipside of the coin, it can be built up as tough as need be to handle all but the largest drops (think RedBull Rampage stuff) and never complain.
 

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How about the Endorphin? It sounds like it could keep up with the type of riding you described. Keep the Maelstrom and build more of a trail bike. Then you will have your bases covered and more diversity between bikes.

I know the DT is a beautiful bike and who wouldn't want one, but a lot of the 160 mm bikes are "jack of all trades, master of none". I had a couple RFXs in the past. While they were awesome bikes, they were a bit much for some trails and not enough for others. I switched to a 5 Spot and a bigger bike and was much happier.

I think a lot of people get sucked into these longer travel trails bikes and then have too much bike for 90% of their riding and not enough for 10% of their riding. If it was going to be your only bike I would say go for it, but if you are going to have a couple of bikes you might as well have the least amount of overlap as possible.

With all that said i would love to own a DT some day. Maybe when I can afford three or four bikes...... AM HT, 5" trail, DT, DH bike...... that sounds good.

TG
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
See you understand my problem. If it was my one bike cause it may just be that one day. I move a fair bit and I cant guarantee I will be able to take all my bikes. If I am lucky I will get to take 2 and the Wildcard will hopefully be one of them or possibley the Hardtail. So that leaves me with one bike to cover everything else and thats a tall order.

I hear ya on the too much travel and I wish for a 5-6" DT. Yes I know there is the Endorphin and other trail bikes but they dont come with the strength I need and possible versatility of switching to a longer fork down the road.

Appreciate the input, its a tuff one for sure.
 

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The OP sounds a little conflicted. Singletrack, sprinting, big gaps & drops? I'm also confused why you would say you're looking for those characteristics but not a DH rig.

I wouldn't call my DT a sprinter, nor would I call it super fast on the single track, at least not on the stuff that goes up :) Don't get me wrong, my DT is a great bike and very capable but it sounds like you want a big travel bike that responds like a HT.

If you've always wanted a DT then I'd say buy it and ride it. It won't disappoint you, but I don't think it'll be the sprinting, big hit bike you're looking for. I'm not Kurt Voreis or anything so I could be wrong...
 

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I think you are on the right track. I use my 38lb. DT for everything from multiple all day epic XC riding to lift assist freeride/DH riding. The only thing I change I make for the lifts is I thrown on some DH tires and I tune my shock. I've spent a lot of time going over my build to keep the weight down but to keep it strong and stiff at the same time. Here is what I would recommend.

Fork: I've ridden this bike with a 36VanRC2, 36FloatRC2, Totem Air, and Totem coil. First off, stick with coil, air has gotten better but it is not there yet. The 160mm forks were light and could handle some abuse but I felt underforked. Not just in travel but in stiffness. The 180mm forks are a much better match for the DT. Since you already have a VAN go ahead and use it but expect to want to upgrade in the future. The new 66 TI, totem dh, and lyrik dh look very interesting.

Shock: Given the range of riding you want to be doing avoid the DHX Air. The tuning is quite frustrating and you'll never get that mid travel support that you need. I'm running a CCDB and it's fantastic. The range of adjustments let you really customize how the bike feels for particular rides.

Wheels: These can be tricky. I wouldn't go any lighter than the DT 5.1's. Those were passable but they bent and flat spotted like crazy when I started going bigger. The Halo's are a bit stronger but I did crack one on my very 1st day at the lifts. I'm running Mavic 721's with the Hadley/Hope combo and I'm very happy with this setup.

If you set this thing up right you'll see the Maelstrom on mothballs. The DT is that good.
 

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the real question is what is acceptable to you? everyone knows coils are better. But when your concern is weight, then you have to go air and can you live with that? I thought I would NEVER ride anything but coil but when I got my DT, I like you wanted an over built trail bike. So with a dhx and a float 36 and single plye tires my 09 is under 37lbs. Now do I wish at time i had coils? of course but the air has been acceptable for 90 percent of my riding. and next year instead of getting a whole new bike, I could get a CCDB and a totem coil and that's a whole bunch cheaper than a new bike.

As for air shocks not being as stiff? please explain. don't they use the same stantions and lowers as a coil? I haven't noticed any lack of stiffness in mine.
 

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pfarrell said:
the real question is what is acceptable to you? everyone knows coils are better. But when your concern is weight, then you have to go air and can you live with that? I thought I would NEVER ride anything but coil but when I got my DT, I like you wanted an over built trail bike. So with a dhx and a float 36 and single plye tires my 09 is under 37lbs. Now do I wish at time i had coils? of course but the air has been acceptable for 90 percent of my riding. and next year instead of getting a whole new bike, I could get a CCDB and a totem coil and that's a whole bunch cheaper than a new bike.

As for air shocks not being as stiff? please explain. don't they use the same stantions and lowers as a coil? I haven't noticed any lack of stiffness in mine.
I was referring to the stiffness of the current 160mm forks vs the 180mm forks. You are right the air and coil of the same fork have the same exact stiffness to them.

As far as coil vs. air goes it depends on how picky you are and how techy your terrain is. I know dirt jumpers that swear by their air forks because all they use them for is landing big airs into transitions. When you get into rocky techy stuff air shocks can be trickier to deal with. Personally, every air fork/shock I've had it came down to the same problem. I'd tune it to avoid bottom out and then small bump suffered. I'd then tune it for for small bump and I'd clank it. Both tunes gave me trouble with mid-stroke wallow.
 

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I have ridden the 2010 DT with the DHX-air and an Elka. I actually preferred the air for the kind of riding I was doing, (net zero types of rides), however the Elka once setup properly would more than likely have been the choice for a bike park.
As far as sprinting the DT has lost none of the previous models ability and IMO is a much more refined frame.

Weight pictured was with the Elka. Weight was 32.08lbs with the DHX-Air.


 

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jitenshakun said:
The OP sounds a little conflicted. Singletrack, sprinting, big gaps & drops? I'm also confused why you would say you're looking for those characteristics but not a DH rig.

I wouldn't call my DT a sprinter, nor would I call it super fast on the single track, at least not on the stuff that goes up :) Don't get me wrong, my DT is a great bike and very capable but it sounds like you want a big travel bike that responds like a HT.

If you've always wanted a DT then I'd say buy it and ride it. It won't disappoint you, but I don't think it'll be the sprinting, big hit bike you're looking for. I'm not Kurt Voreis or anything so I could be wrong...
Ditto what he said. My DT is a great bike, but it's no sprinter. l can think of a half dozen 6 inch bikes that will take quite a bit of abuse, build to less than 35 lbs pretty easily (not true with the pre-2010 DT), and sprint better than the DT.

partswhore said:
Weight pictured was with the Elka. Weight was 32.08lbs with the DHX-Air.
Incredible!! Wow. We need more details. When, where, how much, did you ride it? That bike is a dream come true if what we're seeing is accurate.....and I take back everything I said above.
 

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partswhore said:
I have ridden the 2010 DT with the DHX-air and an Elka. I actually preferred the air for the kind of riding I was doing, (net zero types of rides), however the Elka once setup properly would more than likely have been the choice for a bike park.
As far as sprinting the DT has lost none of the previous models ability and IMO is a much more refined frame.

Weight pictured was with the Elka. Weight was 32.08lbs with the DHX-Air.


That's amazingly light for a DT. I'd be interested in seeing the complete spec. Not sure I could stand riding a DT with an SLR saddle.
 

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Pre production?

Is that a shop demo? Just curious as Noel said they were going to clean up the rear dropouts and remove the cap head screws, he also said the 2010's wouldnt be out until march.
 

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woodyak said:
That's amazingly light for a DT. I'd be interested in seeing the complete spec. Not sure I could stand riding a DT with an SLR saddle.
That build looks ridiculously light. 32 lbs. with air shocks, XTR, X.0, Thomson Masterpiece, SLR saddle, Formula R1 brakes, single ring, they look like single ply 2.3 tires, and pretty light rims (819s?)

Seems more like an Endorphin build to me. With a proper build you would probably be right back up to ~36 lbs. Still not bad.

Beautlful bike though!

TG
 

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craigstr said:
Is that a shop demo? Just curious as Noel said they were going to clean up the rear dropouts and remove the cap head screws, he also said the 2010's wouldnt be out until march.
It was one of the Interbike Dirt Demo's. The changes mentioned are happening. This was a preproduction frame.

G-AIR said:
That build looks ridiculously light. 32 lbs. with air shocks, XTR, X.0, Thomson Masterpiece, SLR saddle, Formula R1 brakes, single ring, they look like single ply 2.3 tires, and pretty light rims (819s?)

Seems more like an Endorphin build to me. With a proper build you would probably be right back up to ~36 lbs. Still not bad.

Beautlful bike though!

TG
I rode the bike for a month and a half after Interbike, I was in the booth there and working the outdoor demo so I got the chance to get my mitts on one.

I live in very close proximity to the North Shore of Vancouver. The bike was ridden in that form on Cypress, Woodlot, Ledgeview, Vedder, and Sumas. Almost all rides involved pedalling ALOT.

For me, I've been riding for 14 years and I have a dedicated DH bike (V10 at the moment ~36lbs), as well as an Endorphin. So that is a proper build. I'm not hard on parts and I weigh 200lbs.

I would have no issues sending it as big as I ever have with that build, and I did!

All of those parts are now on my Endorphin and I am pounding that thing as well.

Those rims are 721's. A very capable downhill rim IMO. They've been on four bikes now and are still holding very strong, been trued once and are built with Revolutions.

But yes those are single ply minions. A perfect all mtn tire, I'd never run one in the bike park but then again, I have a DH bike for those days.
 

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craigstr said:
I just looked at a picture from the drive side, couldnt see the linkage.
It's kinda like the VPP...short lower link. It's easy to miss on the drive side...heck, even the hacks at MBA called it a SP at IBike...but it is a VP style bike.

OP- the Rune is a good bike, but if you're heavier or prone to do things such as to have prompted you to get a Maelstrom in the first place, it's probably a little light. As a trail / AM bike, it's a good bike and lighter guys can use it for DH type stuff (ask BobRocket)...but...

As a heavier guy and knowing where I am starting to go, plus the lighter weight of the 2010 Delirium, I'm probably going to make a Knolly the first thing I look into when the time comes.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Psycho Mike said:
It's kinda like the VPP...short lower link. It's easy to miss on the drive side...heck, even the hacks at MBA called it a SP at IBike...but it is a VP style bike.

OP- the Rune is a good bike, but if you're heavier or prone to do things such as to have prompted you to get a Maelstrom in the first place, it's probably a little light. As a trail / AM bike, it's a good bike and lighter guys can use it for DH type stuff (ask BobRocket)...but...

As a heavier guy and knowing where I am starting to go, plus the lighter weight of the 2010 Delirium, I'm probably going to make a Knolly the first thing I look into when the time comes.
I think you get where I am comming from. Something that can climb to the trails and hit anything on the way. When I ride to the trails I go through the village and hunt little urban hits. At the top of the trail I want to run the ridgeline and again have something that will feel more playfull than the Maelstrom, this involves some sprinting and then railing turns while boosting features. Then there is the run down and back home. Now this is where I dont want riders to get confused and think I need a 180mm fork up front cause I can manage on my hardtail even if its a little sketch and ruff. I would be doing this type of riding with a standard helmet and a couple of pads so that should also put it into perspective. All the trails that are DH worthy have to be pushed so that is where the big bike and full face will get used. So I can seperate my rides quite well. I know the DT is capable of more than what i am descibing but some of the features are a bit nasty and get hit repeatedly. I added more LSC to the Elka and a couple clicks on the Totem and the Maelstrom felt really composed yesterday. I couple more clicks when I got back to my yard to hit the DJ gap, just for laughs, and I while it jumped incredibley well it still felt so sluggish when trying to get the bike rolling. Best way to explain is when I run the same gear ratio it feels like I am mashing the pedals and compared to my Wildcard I feel I need to change up at least one gear. This is what I am looking to change in the new bike.

So yes a short travel trail/AM bike might be better for this type of riding style but they wont come with the strength of the DT and will not have the ability to be changed at a later date so I can run it as a big bike. What makes me believe the DT will be better than the Maelstrom is mostly down to the weight and fact that I can run a 160mm fork. If I can build it to 35lbs I will be
6lbs down on the Maelstrom. I have 3 sets of wheels in 20mm front and 135mm spacing rear so I can run lighter wheels than the current outlaws on the Maelstrom so that will help with rolling resistance and unspring weight. Small differences that could help the DT haul ass a bit quicker and pop a bit better. I am having major problems getting to run a double ring and front mech on the Maesltrom which means it is probably going single and removing it even more from any chance of being used on AM rides and since it feels more sluggish it really needs that granny ring.
The beauty of the DT is not so fresh and that price tag is starting to sink in now:skep: so I really have to give it thought.
Please bare in mind that where I am based in Korea it is very vertical and getting a good AM ride in is near impossible since it is really difficult to find trails that can be climbed. Most makable climbs are gravel fire road and most are not worth taking a big rig up for the short sections of DH action and its better just to push these sections. Most trails are hiking trails so are groomed with isolated tech sections. I tend to ride my yard on the Wildcard and on my hand built DH/FR trail, or pushing up some of the nicer more DH worthy trails taking the Maelstrom. I will commute to a couple of trails and push up to run the ridgeline and repeat some of the nicer technical sections - currently on the hardtail. And then I commute to work and back a couple of times a week, going through the mountains and using sections of road mostly for milage and take the hardtail. I would rotate with the DT since there some fun sections through the mountains.
So this is what I ride for now but I will move in a couple of years and I dont know where. The riding will change and my setups may have to adjust, the verstaility of the DT speaks to me for this reason. I am loving Errs Rune build and the price is tempting, hope to decide before the new year. If I go with a DT I want to put down a deposit if its not too late for a first run frame.
I appreciate the unbiased replies, better than having everyone shoveling the DT down my throat and really improves the validity of the posts.:thumbsup: Hope you all get some seriuos MTB stoke in 2010, I am off to nurse an injury from yesterday.
 
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