[vikb]

The time has come to sell our Pugsleys. Having moved from Calgary to Victoria BC on Vancouver Island a few years ago we no longer have snow to deal with and our "normal" MTBs are rideable 365 days a year. For a while our annual trips to the beaches of Baja kept them relevant, but a change in my professional life means that I will be flying to Baja in the future with kiteboarding gear when I go.

I know some folks are all about fatties for dirt, but that's not me. Our FS MTBs are far better for those missions. I have tried to love my fatty on our steep, rooty and rocky trails, but every ride I came home wishing I had taken out the FS bike.

I'm still a fat lover. I just don't have a reason to be fat at the moment and I'm not planning on leaving this island any time soon. If I did move back to a snow zone or somewhere with access to sand I'd be all over a new fatbike.

Until then I'm gonna keep rolling my Krampus as my bikepacking rig. So I'll stay chubby. Is that fatty enough to keep posting here or should I keep my 29+-ness over in the 29er and Surly forums?

I had some amazing adventures on my Pugsley and I am so glad I bought one. :thumbsup:

If I wasn't pressed for space I would keep the fatties for sentimental reasons, but my small garage is pretty maxed out with the bikes we are riding and out kiteboarding/surfing gear.

And we have two new FS bikes on the way which just pushed us over the edge into insanely-packed-garage-zone. Something had to give. :madman:

This forum has been an entertaining way to spend some time on rainy days or when I needed a break from work. Keep rolling fat and keep having fun.

 

[Vinnie Barbarino]

Until then I'm gonna keep rolling my Krampus as my bikepacking rig. So I'll stay chubby. Is that fatty enough to keep posting here or should I keep my 29+-ness over in the 29er and Surly forums?

I think riders of the Krampus and other 29+ bikes should be welcome to post here.

I think riders of the Specialized Fatboy should be welcome to post here.

I think riders of the Beast and Dolomite should be welcome to post here.

 

[Jayem]

I've been thinking for the last few days, 170 and 190mm rear end carbon fatbikes are going to constitute the majority of bikes sold in bike shops in a few years I think. The carbon will come way down as economy of scale kicks in, and with these rear ends you'll be able to use a summer or winter wheelset or even 29+, and again, mass-produced summer wheelsets in those sizes will cost the same as 135/142 ones. I think FS and other bikes will likely maintain 27.5 and 29er wheelsizes with 142 rear hubs, but thinking out loud I don't see any reason why you wouldn't want a 3lb frame that can take summer 29er wheels or fatbike wheels. Sure, there may still be a market for the 2.6lb carbon 29er race-hardtail, but it will get smaller and that .4lbs that makes up the difference will give you something like 300% more usability with the same bike. There are some minor issues to maybe address with a sliding dropout or bolt-on setup to allow for tighter geometry with the 29er, but I think we are going to see a move towards this, and then people that want to fat-bike simply buy a winter wheelset, rather than dump 2K on a fatbike. This won't happen for a few years obviously, but after 27.5, I'm thinking this will be the next big thing...no reason not to be able to simply switch wheels.

 

[dr.welby]

but thinking out loud I don't see any reason why you wouldn't want a 3lb frame that can take summer 29er wheels or fatbike wheels.

Wiiide bottom bracket?

 

[Jayem]

Again, for the majority of riders, I doubt there will be an issue, and probably some clever reverse Q factor cranks eventually to help.

 

[dr.welby]

Again, for the majority of riders, I doubt there will be an issue, and probably some clever reverse Q factor cranks eventually to help.

Yeah, they can put the chainrings on the outside of the crankarm instead.

 

[vikb]

People who are sure they want a fatbike and a 29er would be happy with some build options like buying it as a 29er if that's what they need first, but for everyone else buying a 29er or 29+ that costs even more due to niche hubs/BB/cranks is not going to be an attractive option.

You can buy a nice used 29er for the cost of a 29+ wheelset for your fatbike.

There are two main issues with carbon:

- at the moment it takes a lot of labour to produce [hence why all the carbon is coming out of China]
- it's material properties make it less desirable for banging around on things than steel or AL

The first item may get resolved with some changes to how we fabricate carbon frames. The second item seems like it will keep metal bike frames going strong for folks who end up with beat up bikes currently - whether through lack of care or just really hard use.

I think Surly was very smart making the Krampus 100% compatible with a normal 29er so folks could swap their parts over to a Krampus frame without much barrier to entry.

 

[SmooveP]

Don't do it Vik! This place needs all the reasonable people it can get.

The way things are headed, the "fat bike" label will be totally arbitrary in a year or so.
If you can get a wheel/tire combo in 1/4" increments anywhere between 2" and 5" and 26, 27.5 and 29" diameters, it all becomes just another tire size. I like the idea of bikes that can handle a wide range of sizes, but there are compromises to do that. Q-factor is the obvious one, and chainstay length and BB height are 2 others that come to mind. But I guess you could fix both of those issues with sliders and a wide variety of wheel diameters to choose from.

I think we're stuck with the wide Q factor, until we can figure out how to mount the pedals on the inside of the crank arms.

 

[PlutonicPlague]

Vik, I don't kite, so I'm still cursing the wind! If you ever make it to Westport for surfing or kite boarding and need a fattie fix, look me up and you can ride mine!
Some of the local crew no longer curse at the wind:

 

[vikb]

Don't do it Vik! This place needs all the reasonable people it can get.

LOL - if 29+ content is welcome I'll keep posting. I've got a bunch of bikepacking trips planned for the Krampus.

My buddy who owns a Necro/OPs Pugs is moving back to the island and talking about a 29+ KramPug conversion as well.

I don't plan on giving the Pugs away at Wall-beast prices so if they don't sell for what I want to get back from them we'll probably convert my GFs Pugs into a Krampug as well and I'll just store mine until a beach adventure comes along.

Vik, I don't kite, so I'm still cursing the wind! If you ever make it to Westport for surfing or kite boarding and need a fattie fix, look me up and you can ride mine!
Some of the local crew no longer curse at the wind:

Ya it's funny how you love or hate the wind depending on what sports you enjoy.

Thanks for the fatty loaner offer. :thumbsup:

 

[sasquatch rides a SS]

The time has come to sell our Pugsleys.

My exact reaction...

This doesn't feel right and I'm sad. I hope you find a good home for them.

:thumbsup:

 

[vikb]

This doesn't feel right and I'm sad. I hope you find a good home for them.

:thumbsup:

Thanks. I've really tried to keep the fat stoke going, but where I live there really is no use for a fatty and I'm not interested in riding something just to prove that it can be done vs. riding the best bike for the job.

 

[Jayem]

Thanks. I've really tried to keep the fat stoke going, but where I live there really is no use for a fatty and I'm not interested in riding something just to prove that it can be done vs. riding the best bike for the job.

Kudos to you for saying that. It gets crazy sometimes with people making claims that their fatbike climbs better than their hardtail in the summer or that they are faster on a bike with 20lbs of wheels. Fatbikes can be fun in places other than the beach or on snow, but the people doing that are hopefully the ones that like doing things a little differently and are not concerned about being fast or having the "optimal" bike, they realize they are using something other than an optimal bike and they want to have fun on it, change up their normal routine, etc. It's like the guy that rides drop bars, cross-bike on trails, pulling a trailer, riding a 46lb freeride rig on xc stuff, or any number of crazy setups. Fatbikes only come into their own in certain conditions, and in those conditions nothing else works, but you don't see those conditions very often in some places, if at all. IMO where you *need* a fatbike is a place that has snow on the ground during all of winter. That said, you don't "need" one in the sense that some of the time skinny tires and studs will work, but if you want to ride every day that it's possible to, the fatbike is what you need. Without these conditions, or if you live in a place that occasionally snows a few inches or a foot then clears up, you are convincing yourself you need a fatbike, but in reality you are owning it for the reasons I explained first, because you like to be different, because you realize it's a penalty and you are ok with that, because you don't mind taking your own time.

I think the "fatbike" market is like the initial 29er market, it's expanding faster than can be supported, which will lead to some collapse, and then finally stabilization.

 

[gatorgrizz27]

If you truly don't have any use for them it's better to let someone else enjoy them, but if its just a matter of valuable space, where there's a will there's a way! I've been dealing with making the most out of small spaces for years, I'd find a way to hang them flat from the ceiling with the bars turned sideways, add a small shed if you have the space, or even replace your dining room table with a matching pair of pugsley's and a sheet of glass on top! If you don't use them regularly storage ideas can get creative, pulling them out a few times a year won't be too big of a deal!

 

[vikb]

If you truly don't have any use for them it's better to let someone else enjoy them, but if its just a matter of valuable space, where there's a will there's a way! I've been dealing with making the most out of small spaces for years, I'd find a way to hang them flat from the ceiling with the bars turned sideways, add a small shed if you have the space, or even replace your dining room table with a matching pair of pugsley's and a sheet of glass on top! If you don't use them regularly storage ideas can get creative, pulling them out a few times a year won't be too big of a deal!

If I don't sell them as I noted above we'll make my GF's Pugs into a 29+ for touring and I'll just store mine. I have room to keep it in the sense that it's not like my garage is physically full to the max, but as most of you with sports gear problems know after a certain point of "fullness" a garage/storage area becomes a lot less useful because it's just got too much stuff in it and you spend a lot of time moving stuff around to get at other stuff. That's where I am at.

As far as use goes. If I am not trying to use the Pugs just to use it I don't have any need at all for it. My annual trips to Baja were the last great reason to be fat. I stayed down there 1-2 months at a time so it made keeping the Pugs worth it for that intense blast of beach/desert riding.

With a new contract those trips are over and my holiday time is shifting to a different format that favours 1-3 week trips. I can't drive to Baja with a fatbike if I'm only gone 3 weeks because it takes a week to get there and a week to get back so I'll fly with kitesurfing gear and leave the fatbike at home.

It's not a fatbike thing either. I've tried all manner of different bikes on my local trails - fat, Krampus, 29er rigid and 29er front suspension. There is nothing I like as much as my FS bike. It's not even close. I ride faster. I conquer tech section more easily. I feel better at the end of the ride. Other than the fact my FS bike is spendy there is no downside.

Where the Krampus comes into play is for my bikepacking trips that are not on the same trails that I ride my FS MTB. Mostly they are on forest service roads or less techy trails in other parts of BC.

So that's the motivation to get rid of the fatty.

 

[Nakedbabytoes]

Well, vik, I'm gonna miss you man!
Good thing you still have a blog

I am 3 weeks into owning a Big Dummy and your user recs really helped me outfit my rig specifically for me without feeling like I was jumping into the unknown. I think I had already bought my pugs before I caught your blog and joined MTBR but it has been a fun ride.

I hope you stick around, experience is experience and invaluable to people just getting the itch or having issues. You ride it, you know it, let the info flow!

 

[bme107]

The changing of the guard.

Thanks for the honesty and positive stoke through the years. On a lighter note, point me to the thread on your new arrivals.

 

[vikb]

Well, vik, I'm gonna miss you man!
Good thing you still have a blog

I am 3 weeks into owning a Big Dummy and your user recs really helped me outfit my rig specifically for me without feeling like I was jumping into the unknown. I think I had already bought my pugs before I caught your blog and joined MTBR but it has been a fun ride.

I hope you stick around, experience is experience and invaluable to people just getting the itch or having issues. You ride it, you know it, let the info flow!

It sounds like 29+ content is welcome here so I'll keep posting. I just didn't want to post chubby content too much if only true fattness was desired.

I'm glad you got a Big Dummy. They are very versatile bikes. I'm a little out of touch in the cargo biking world because once I got my BD dialled I stopped paying too much attention to new stuff. It's rugged enough that aside from tires/chains/brake pads and maybe fabric bags I won't have to replace much. Nothing worse for a tinkerer than realizing a bike is perfect for you needs and can't be gainfully modified any further! Hahaha...

The changing of the guard.

Thanks for the honesty and positive stoke through the years.

Thanks for the kind words.

One thing I try to strive for in my online contributions is a balance between stoke and realism. Going all crazy fatbikes are the best at everything everywhere all the time is no more useful than being anti-fatbike and saying they suck at everything all the time anywhere!

Bikes are tools and should be evaluated and used to further the riding missions of their owners.

For me right now that means no fatty, but I don't for one second believe that the type of FS bikes that are perfect for me at the moment are the Ultimate Solution for everybody on MTBR for all time.

If I moved back to Calgary I'd be shopping for a new fatty before I even unpacked a box and I'd want a FS bike that was different to the one I ride currently.

To me the terrain and weather should dictate what you ride.

On a lighter note, point me to the thread on your new arrivals.

I'm still waiting on the new bikes and I haven't started a thread about them yet.

My new MTB process has been under way for almost 2yrs with a number of challenges and setbacks [including an end to a 17yr business relationship that resulted in some serious cash flow issues] so I don't want to jinx myself and give the Bike Gods any reason to throw me any more curve balls.

So I'm keeping new bike details under wraps until I have them in my garage for sure.

Happily that should be in the next week or 2. Just as the weather gets less moist here in the PNWet. :thumbsup:

 

[Guest]

It sounds like 29+ content is welcome here so I'll keep posting. I just didn't want to post chubby content too much if only true fattness was desired.

I'll be pretty much in the same box (26+)but given your history and knowledge to share with others it would be a shame for you to leave.

I'm still waiting on the new bikes and I haven't started a thread about them yet.

same here.

 

[jonshonda]

You can't stay away forever!! :thumbsup: