Mountain Bike Reviews Forum banner
1 - 20 of 50 Posts

·
Banned
Joined
·
2,389 Posts
I didn't watch the video but I was wondering what TE thinks about Dave Turners switch to DW link suspension design.

Tony has to have an opinion. How will he argue that ICT is still more efficient?

Sorry total threadjack.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,549 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
TIMBERRR said:
I didn't watch the video but I was wondering what TE thinks about Dave Turners switch to DW link suspension design.

Tony has to have an opinion. How will he argue that ICT is still more efficient?

Sorry total threadjack.
He did mention something about DW link. I cannot remember exactly but something about ICT is still old but proven and that other technologies are trying hard to out do ICT like DW link.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
77 Posts


Two thumbs up for the unintended humor!

Bonus points for the random Ellsworth muppet describing other suspension systems as "gimmicks."

Extra bonus points for Tony continuing his negative selling practices (the carbon thing is a hoot!)

Extra, extra bonus points for the fatuous marketing blurb on the right side about ICT being "globally recognized as the most efficient fully active suspension design in the world."
 

·
Elitest thrill junkie
Joined
·
40,403 Posts
TIMBERRR said:
Tony has to have an opinion. How will he argue that ICT is still more efficient?

Sorry total threadjack.
ICT is up to 100% efficient. You can't go more than 100%.
 

·
MTB SOCAL
Joined
·
1,459 Posts
Nice video.

The new website is much better than the old one. There are a lot of resources available on the website. I've also found that if I have any questions that can't readily be answered from looking on the website, the Ells employees that answer the phones are very helpful.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
744 Posts
MTBghandi said:


Two thumbs up for the unintended humor!

Bonus points for the random Ellsworth muppet describing other suspension systems as "gimmicks."

Extra bonus points for Tony continuing his negative selling practices (the carbon thing is a hoot!)

Extra, extra bonus points for the fatuous marketing blurb on the right side about ICT being "globally recognized as the most efficient fully active suspension design in the world."
Yeah, it's crazy how on Ellsworth's website they've put advertising for Ellsworth products.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
915 Posts
Don't all websites advertise the companies products? isn't that the point.

I don't suppose TE has any particular thoughts about Turners move to jump on the latest bandwagon. He still likes his ITC system because he had a hand in its development.

Whether it is old or new, it is still a very good system, just because something is new does not mean it is better. ICT has outlived many new fangled designs that have come and gone, simply beacuse it works well. Same goes for horst links with Specialized. VPP has been around since almost the birth of full suss (it just didn't work back then) and no one thinks it is outdated.

The DW system is great as is the maestro version on giants .The real test is whether it will still be here in 10 years time. I can think of many suspension designs that won't be but I am pretty sure ict will still be there
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,549 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Nsynk said:
Whether it is old or new, it is still a very good system, just because something is new does not mean it is better.
Fully agree with this point. I do not know enough about comparing technologies but I have heard comments from others saying ICT is outdated. That confuses me. Unless terrains change or people evolve to different riders, I don't understand the concept of "outdated." If ICT works, then keep it and just improve on the concept.

DW may be better than ICT, I am not arguing if it is or isn't. Same thing for comparing VPP to ICT or DW. I just don't understand going back to the drawing board for something new becuause it is many years old.

I am sure the DW system is incredible simply because Dave Turner went that direction. From what i learned from that man/company, they are cutting edge and already had a great design so to change completely was a big step and obviously a well studied move.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,226 Posts
Nsynk said:
Don't all websites advertise the companies products? isn't that the point.

I don't suppose TE has any particular thoughts about Turners move to jump on the latest bandwagon. He still likes his ITC system because he had a hand in its development.

Whether it is old or new, it is still a very good system, just because something is new does not mean it is better. ICT has outlived many new fangled designs that have come and gone, simply beacuse it works well. Same goes for horst links with Specialized. VPP has been around since almost the birth of full suss (it just didn't work back then) and no one thinks it is outdated.

The DW system is great as is the maestro version on giants .The real test is whether it will still be here in 10 years time. I can think of many suspension designs that won't be but I am pretty sure ict will still be there
i wasn't aware that tony had any input in the design of the horst link or the rocker style horst bike. i know he was the first to patent ict as a horst link with a rocker design. i wouldn't call that product developement though. crafty, maybe.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
915 Posts
should have known you would be lurking somehwhere to defend your beloved Mr Turner.

Turners previous design was not even vagualy cutting edge it was a faux bar design that he was forced into using when he rightly or wrongly lost a patent battle with Ellsworth.

I didn't say TE invented anything he merely added to the development and then patented that additional development. As I said rightly or wrongly. He did have an input though.

In the 15 years or so i have been watching i can't say that Turner has been credited with inventing anything. He did have a part in the original rocker design and his bikes were excellent. Mr Horsts adition completed them and they were brilliant. Thee should have been room for both turner and ellsworth to run along side just as there are many similar designs now but hey I am not a legal man just and engineer.

Since he lost the battle Turner has been somewhat floundering in my view, even many hardened Turner fans were turned off by the inferior design of the faux bar so I for one am glad he has found a new partnership to work with.

Would have been even better if he had designed his own system but hey that might not be his forte. I am sure his input will improve the DW design. Hell he might even patent the changes!!!! JOKING don't bite
 

·
MTB SOCAL
Joined
·
1,459 Posts
Nsynk said:
Don't all websites advertise the companies products? isn't that the point.

I don't suppose TE has any particular thoughts about Turners move to jump on the latest bandwagon. He still likes his ITC system because he had a hand in its development.

Whether it is old or new, it is still a very good system, just because something is new does not mean it is better. ICT has outlived many new fangled designs that have come and gone, simply beacuse it works well. Same goes for horst links with Specialized. VPP has been around since almost the birth of full suss (it just didn't work back then) and no one thinks it is outdated.

The DW system is great as is the maestro version on giants .The real test is whether it will still be here in 10 years time. I can think of many suspension designs that won't be but I am pretty sure ict will still be there
Great points. I agree.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,226 Posts
Nsynk said:
should have known you would be lurking somehwhere to defend your beloved Mr Turner.

Turners previous design was not even vagualy cutting edge it was a faux bar design that he was forced into using when he rightly or wrongly lost a patent battle with Ellsworth.

I didn't say TE invented anything he merely added to the development and then patented that additional development. As I said rightly or wrongly. He did have an input though.

In the 15 years or so i have been watching i can't say that Turner has been credited with inventing anything. He did have a part in the original rocker design and his bikes were excellent. Mr Horsts adition completed them and they were brilliant. Thee should have been room for both turner and ellsworth to run along side just as there are many similar designs now but hey I am not a legal man just and engineer.

Since he lost the battle Turner has been somewhat floundering in my view, even many hardened Turner fans were turned off by the inferior design of the faux bar so I for one am glad he has found a new partnership to work with.

Would have been even better if he had designed his own system but hey that might not be his forte. I am sure his input will improve the DW design. Hell he might even patent the changes!!!! JOKING don't bite
not defending turner, just clearing up the miscoception that tony designed the rocker activated horst link. designing is not his forte, patenting and then sueing is. i'll gladly give credit where credit is due and in this case, tony's real forte is being slippery enough to get his patent on dave's ideas. dave turner worked with horst leitner at amp research on the original horst link. he started designing his own bikes in 1992 before tony patented ict. most of the hate for tony by homers is because tony basically stole turners design and patented it before dave did. he is hardly an innovator or designer. learn your history before you jump up and defend tony and say dave is not a designer. this is all ancient history but it obviously still needs to be addressed sometimes.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turner_Suspension_Bicycles
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
555 Posts
Guess marketing is more than half the battle to TE. Cool video. Kinda wish that people who actually ride the bikes were welding them. You can't tell me those big boned people are out there riding.

It is what it is. Nice bikes. Dated suspension design.
 

·
Master of the Face Plant
Joined
·
2,901 Posts
One thing I thought was interesting about the Vid is Tony raising questions about the environmental impact of carbon fiber frame production. While his points are valid I wonder if he thinks the mining and production of bauxite into aluminum is any better? I ride an Epiphany and a Turner Flux TNT. I can say after demoing two DW turners that DW blows the TNT bikes away. They stay active under braking which is a huge advantage on downhills. I can also say that I would not trade my Epiphany for any of them. I don't care how old the design is, it just works better than anything I have been on.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
555 Posts
Nsynk said:
The DW system is great as is the maestro version on giants .The real test is whether it will still be here in 10 years time. I can think of many suspension designs that won't be but I am pretty sure ict will still be there
Hopefully in 10 years there will be someting even better than Ict, Vpp, or DW.

Perhaps even in the next 5 years we will see something very inovative.
 
1 - 20 of 50 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top