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So if all things being equal in terms of actual top tube length and head tube angle etc. etc.

Would a bike with a 72 degree seat tube angle have a longer effective top tube than a bike with a 73 degree seat tube, or is it the opposite??

I always get this mixed up and I'm trying to help out a friend who's researching different frames.

Thanks in advance.

Mark
 

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Appalachian Singletrack'n
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Two bikes with the same effective-top tub length but different STA, the bike with the steeper STA will feel longer granted the rider keeps the same KOP via seat post adjustment.

For me @ 31.25” from C of BB to top of saddle 1 deg of seat tube angle equates to a little less than a half inch of eff. top tube.
 

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www.badgercycles.com
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MMcG said:
So if all things being equal in terms of actual top tube length and head tube angle etc. etc.

Would a bike with a 72 degree seat tube angle have a longer effective top tube than a bike with a 73 degree seat tube, or is it the opposite??

I always get this mixed up and I'm trying to help out a friend who's researching different frames.

Thanks in advance.

Mark
You are correct. 72 would be farther away than 73.
 

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I have a little spreadsheet I use to keep track of all the bikes I've owned or are interested in, and I always put in a little calculation I call EFFECTIVE Effective Top Tube (EETT). This is the Effective Top Tube measurement the bike would have if it had a conventional 73 degree seat tube angle.

Increasing the seat tube angle from 73 to 74 effectively makes the top tube feel 0.4" (about 1cm) longer for me (because I need to slide the seat further back to maintain the saddle position I like), making a 23.0" top tube feel more like 23.4". Reducing STA to 72 degrees would effectively make it feel shorter, making a 23.0" top tube feel like 22.6", since I'd have to slide my seat forward to position properly.
 

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MMcG said:
GlowBoy would you care to share that spreadsheet. We are close in size so you may have already done a lot of work for me. :)
PM me your e-mail address ... I'll send it back to you as an attachment.
 

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Here's an attempt to list the spreadsheet contents. Two caveats:
1. There are lots of gaps in the info, and probably errors too. Take note of my signature. This is a compilation of what I've managed to glean from this board and manufacturer websites, and not all of the information is widely available. If you have updates or corrections, I'm happy to hear them.
2. This is not an attempt to give comprehensive information for all riders of all sizes. I've put this together to try to keep track of all the frame options that might fit ME, and I've only included the size(s) for each frame that look like they would fit. Guys in the 5'5"-5'9" range might find this useful. If your sizing is different, don't complain that I didn't include you: look up the info and make your own spreadsheet!

Steel Hardtails size Price Weight Dropouts HTA STA ETT TTT BBH/BBD CSL WB
Surly KM (english) s/16 400 5.6 TFE/DH 71 73 22.7 22.7 11.7 17.0+ 41.1
Surly KM (metric) s/16 400 5.6 TFE/DH 71 73 57.7 57.7 68 432+ 104.4
Vulture custom 1000 5.3? EBB 71 73 22.5 22.5 12.2/55 17.5 41.1?
Gunnar Rock Hound 29 17.5 750 vert 71 74 23.6 24.0 "low" 17.7 43
Gunnar Ruffian 29 17.5 1000 sliders 71 74 23.6 24.0 "low" 17.7 43
Haro Mary SS ? 400 w/fork 6 EBB 71 73 23 23.0 ? 17.6 ?
Haro Mary Geared ? 400 w/fork 5.5? vert 71 73 23 23.0 ? 17.6 ?
Kona Unit/Explosif 2-9er 16" 500 sliders 69.5 74 22.5 22.9 12.1 17.3 ?
Kona Unit/Explosif 2-9er 18" 500 sliders 71 73 23.5 23.5 12.3 17.3 ?
Niner sir 9 s 750 4.5 EBB 71 74.5 23.1 23.7 70 17.3 42.3
On-One Inbred 29er 16 500 5.4? sliders 71 73 23 23.0 58mm 17.48
Raleigh XXIX sm 750 built EBB? 71 73 22.8 22.8 55mm 440 42
Redline monocog 29er 15" 500 built TFE 71 74 23.1 23.5 12 17.5 42.9
Salsa El Mariachi SM 880 5 EBB 71 73 22.7 22.7 11.7/68 17.9 42.6
SlingShot BigShot/Big Single (discontinued) 16 1300+ebb 6? choose 71 73 22.5 22.5 12 17.5
SlingShot BigShot/Big Single (discontinued) 16L/18 1300+ebb 6? choose 71 73 23 23.0 12 17.5
Soma Juice 16 450? 5.1 TFE/DH 71 73 22.7 22.7 11.7 17.6 41.7
Vicious Motivator m 1200 vert 71 73 22.8 22.8 11.8 17.5
Vicious Monolith m 1300 EBB 71 73 22.8 22.8 11.8 17.5
Voodoo Dambala 2004 (853) 17 700 4.5? sliders 73.5 22.5 22.7 11.85
Voodoo Dambala 2005+ (631) 17 700 4.8 sliders 72 73.5 22.5 22.7 11.85 18.1
Voodoo Dambala 2005+ (631) 18" min 500 4.8 sliders 72 73 23 23.0 11.85 18.1
WaltWorks (EBB) custom 810 no paint 4.3 EBB cus cus cus cus cus cus
WaltWorks (no EBB) custom 690 no paint 3.8 vert cus cus cus cus cus cus

Aluminum Hard/softtails size Price Weight Dropouts HTA STA ETT TTT BBH/BBD CSL WB
Astrix Rook M 500 4 vert 71.5 73 23.4 23.4 12.2 17.5 42.4
Flyte Celsius 9 16 400 4 EBB 70.5 74 22.6 23.0 64 17.5 42.1
Gary Fisher Rig sm 1000 built 4.2 EBB 70.5 74 23.2 23.6 12.4/50 17.3 42.8
Kona Kula 2-9 - 2007 (scandium) 6 sizes 650? sliders
Niner one 9 (scandium) sm 750 3.4 EBB 71 74.5 23.1 23.7 70 17.3 42.3
Niner air 9 (scandium) sm 750 3.1 vert 71 74 23.1 23.5 60 17.5 42.6
Niner emd 9 sm 500 3.5 vert 71 74 23.1 23.5 60 17.5 42.6
On-One Scandal (scandium) 16 695 3.5 vert 71 73 23 23.0 58mm 17.48
Orbea 29er 17.5 650 3.5 vert 71 74 23.5 23.9 ? 17.5 ?
Salsa Dos Niner (scandium ST) 16 800-1000 4.1 vert/33x20 73 22.7 22.7 65 17.9 42.2
SE Racing BM Flyer 17 400ish built vert 71 73 21.5 21.5 11.8 18.5 ?
SlingShot FarmBoy 16 1250 vert 71 73 23.1 11.9 17.5
SlingShot FarmBoy 18 1250 vert 71 73 23.1 11.9 17.5
Van Dessel Buzz Bomb HT ? 1100 w/WB EBB ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
Ventana El Comandante 16 900? EBB 70.5 73.5 22.5 22.7 12 17.9 42
Ventane El Padrino 16 900? vert 70.5 73.5 22.5 22.7 12 17.9 42
VooDoo Aizan (scandium) 18 650 3.2 sliders 72 73 23 23.0 11.85 18.1

Carbon Hardtails size Price Weight Dropouts HTA STA ETT TTT BBH/BBD CSL WB
Orbea Alma 18 1800 2.9 vert 71 73.5 23.74 23.9 ? 17.5 ?

FS size Price Weight Dropouts HTA STA ETT TTT BBH/BBD CSL WB
Astrix Monk (SP 4.5") M 1100 6.6 vert 70.5 74 24.4 24.8 73mm 17.7
Gary Fisher Sugar 293 04-05 (SP) sm 1800 built 6-ish vert 71.5 73.5 23.2 23.4 12.4 18.1 43
Gary Fisher Supercal 29 (SP) sm 2300 built 5-6? vert ? ? 22.9 ? 60 43.5
Gary Fisher Caliber 29 (SP) sm 1700 built 5-6? vert ? ? 22.9 ? 60 43.5
Intense Spider (VPP 4") M 1900 vert 73 74 23.8 24.2 12.5 18
Lenz Behemoth (4bar 5") sm 1800 6+ vert ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
Lenz Leviathan (4bar 3-4") sm 1675 5-ish vert 71 72.5 22.6 22.4 12.9 18.2
Lenz Leviathan (4bar 3-4") med 1675 5-ish vert 71 72.5 23.1 22.9 12.9 18.2
Niner rip 9 (4bar 4.5") sm 1550 6.5 vert 71 73.5 23.1 23.3 35 17.9 43.3
Speedgoat Asylum (Horst 3") m/16.5 1900 6 vert 70.8 74 23.4 23.8 12.6 ? ?
Titus Racer-X (Horst 3") med 2700 vert cus cus cus cus cus ? cus
Van Dessel Buzz Bomb FS '06 (4bar) sm 1600 w/WB vert 71 74 22.25 22.7 12.0/64 18 39.5
Van Dessel Buzz Bomb FS '07 sm ? lighter vert ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
Ventana El Capitan 17 1800? 6+ vert 71.3 74 23 23.4 13.6 18.3 43.9
Ventana El Patron 16 5.2 vert 71 75 22.5 23.3 13.3 18.35 43.8
Vicious Groover (Horst 3.5") m 1750 vert 71 73 23 23.0 12.75 16.75
 
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