[Trail_Header]

Ok…I wasn't going to come on here and post this, mostly because Scott and my LBS handled the issue so quickly and satisfactorily that I kinda feel bad about it. My reason for changing my mind is that I feel I owe it to MTB culture to do what I can to prevent someone else from having a similar experience.

Here's what you need to know :

Rider: 6'3"
Weight: 180 lbs.
Riding style: aggressive trail
Location: Arizona
Bike: Scott Ransom 20

I ride 6 days a week here in Arizona and average about 12 - 14 miles each day. I ride I guess what people are calling "aggressive trail" these days, used to just be called mountain biking. I don't venture off the trail for free riding at all, but when I see water bars or drops on the trail, I hit 'em with all I have.

The point? I have been through 3 carbon ransom 20 frames in as many months.

The first one…stress fractures developed about 2" above the BB on the down tube, I was told by my LBS and local Scott dealer (not at all familiar with the bike by the way) that the cracks were superficial and only on the surface. They told me to ride with confidence as did my Scott rep…

Well I did, and paid the price. While crossing from trail to trail at my local spot, I decided to gap the whopping 4' space in between 2 parking blocks with an 18" high bunny hop. Huge, I know…I told you I go big. I land it smooth…and POP! I thought the shock blew up…turns out it was the frame exploding underneath me. 1 down…

So Scott makes good and demos me a Ransom 10 while they work on replacing my 20. Sweet ride…and mighty nice of them to boot. 'cept for the part where they forgot the loc-tite on the pin that threads through the shock knuckle. The pin had backed out and under normal compression, rebounded …tearing a 1 1/2" x 1" hole in the interior of the carbon frame. 2 down…

Now, I'm kinda pissed. But I play it cool and just call 'em up, tell them what happened and that I was beginning to lose confidence in their product. I'm told by Scott these two incidents are the result of me being a "very unlucky person" and I go along with it because I do have really bad luck. They again tell me to ride with confidence and that their products are meant to withstand anything an aggressive trail rider can throw at them. LBS and Scott rep told me the 1st frame was sent to the engineers in Switzerland for inspection. LBS and Scott rep also told me that no carbon frames have failed in this manner on any of their U.S. bikes, but that the Swiss engineers have seen it a few times in Europe. They said that they were sending back a European version of the 20 frame, supposedly beefed up around the down tube where the break occurred.

I got my 20 back and I'm so happy…back to riding what is (when in one piece) on the surface, a very formidable and fun point & shoot AM rig. But, given my recent history with the bike, I'm checking the down tube before every ride to make sure no stress fractures are developing…there aren't any. I'm gearing up at the trailhead and a rider pulls up next to me and asks if I can show him around because he just moved to Arizona. I said yeah and we headed off to the best part of the loops…a decent that boasts about 40 2' - 3' water bars. I wanted to show him a good time so we were blasting off every one we could. Its worth mentioning that blasting off for me (and him) was pretty moderate jumping to slightly sloped landings. I'd say tires no more than 4' off the ground and traveling about 15' - 20' down trail on the really big ones. And it was one of the big ones that claimed the last carbon bike I will ever ride…at least one made by Scott. This one completely snapped in half at the same down tube spot. I tweaked my wrist pretty bad, but again…kept it rubber side down. The guy I was riding with is the nicest guy in the world, he gets off his bike and hikes the 4 miles we had back to the car. Even gave me his name and number to contact him if Scott gave me any flack about the kind of riding I was doing when it broke…he was pretty amazed that what we were doing was all it took to break a frame like that. 3 down...

All in all the LBS and Scott worked together to fully credit my account for the full purchase price of the bike and did it rather quickly (about a week). Also worth mentioning is that my Dad is an attorney and helped me put together a "letter of encouragement"…that helped as well, I'm sure. Scott's customer service is great…and my LBS hung in there and made it right in the end. I just don't think Scott's carbon is up to snuff…and it has led me to believe that carbon in general may not quite be ready for aggressive riders…I could be way off, and maybe better technology is out there on other rigs…I just won't ever find out about it.

 

[ferday]

carbon in general may not quite be ready for aggressive riders

i do not believe in carbon, and i don't believe it will ever be a popular frame material simply because of incidents like yours.
sorry to hear about your luck, sounds like scott is a decent company at least.

 

[Iceman69]

Aye I'll keep my aluminum frame thank you very much.

 

[ronny]

mmmkona might be sweating when he checks out this thread. I was also wary of carbon because of my weight and riding style. Not for me.

 

[davec113]

That sucks... I ride similar stuff it sounds like, plus I ride at Keystone, just learning to do jumps... I'm almost 200 lbs and will go with something heavier for my next bike. I'm considering a Canfield Balance (Aluminum), Knolly Delerium or an Intense Uzzi VPX. Maybe one of those would hold up better for you? They are all built to take some serious abuse...

 

[Guyechka]

I have to credit MBA with running that article a year ago about the downside (serious downside) of carbon frames and components. On the other hand, aside from that one article, they seem to be proponents of the stuff.

I agree with Ferday; I hate carbon. I hate carbon components, and I hate carbon frames most of all. While it seems like a good material (and let's face it, it is sexy), the potential for mishaps is high. Those mishaps happen to carry more serious consequences than with aluminum or steel.

The strange thing is that carbon frames have been around what seems like forever. I remember a friend of mine riding a carbon framed Giant in 1992. Maybe there wasn't as much manipulating of the frames into strange shapes back then.

 

[umbertom]

it's unfortunate that had to happen to you, TH
I'm suprised those frames broke though, especially at that junction at the bottom just because those seem like some really monstrous sized tubing
hope you have better luck with your next bike

 

[BelaySlave]

I'm waiting for the first Ibis Mojo to break.....

 

[CharacterZero]

Glad you are OK. Three failures put you in a very high risk category for crashing.

What next, a Ventana? They don't often break!

 

[Znarf]

There was a ransom with a broken headtube at some Interbike demonstration. This camp in the desert thing where you can test all the new bikes, don´t know what it´s called.

Saw a pic of the broken frame, headtube was popped off the main frame :thumbsup:

How about a Heckler? I own one, seems to be indestructible. Mine is now 4years old, no signs of weakness. Even the first bearings are still like new, and I DO ride a lot. In harsh conditions, all winter, all weather, mud ... That thing sure is ridiculously maintenance free

Love it.

Greetings znarf

 

[Trail_Header]

thanks for the replies...i was considering the RM slayer, SC nomad, Intense 6.6, and the Scott Ransom when i bought this bike. i have riden all of them and put an intense 6.6 on order, it'll be built and ready to roll in 4 weeks.

the potential crash thing really freaked me out on the drive home...the second one was at speed and through the trees...good thing the ring augered into the ground, brought things to a hault rather quickly.

i'm not abusive to bikes, but i do ride hard and fast and expect my bike to take it. the intense seems stout enough to handle my style and light enough to let me earn my downhill runs.

 

[Steve71]

WHOLE LEE SH!T :eekster:

 

[ebxtreme]

Trail Header.....I didn't see it in your post, but i'm surprised Scott didn't come back to you with an offer of an aluminum version of the same bike with a credit for the price difference? Seems like that would've kept you on a Scott that you'd have more confidence in.

It seems like they did you right either way.

EB

 

[DIRT BOY]

Personally after dealing with SCOTT tech dept...

I have no faith in thier service. They don't know basic info on thier bikes and rely on the dealers for basic info .

If you SCOTT rep told you to ride a cracked frame in confidence, he should be fired! They should have checked that frame out 100x over to make sure it was only superficial. They should be lucky as HELL you did not sue the pants off them and the reps! If I was SCOTT not only would I replace your Ransom, I would offer you a road frame or a HT as a sorry, our REP and the Compnay failed you!

What worries me is they gave you 3 frames. They obviously don't feel it's rider error breaking these frame. After seeing this and SCALE frames having issues (SCOTT US admits to this) I would be nervous riding thier CF MTB frames.

 

[chequamagon]

Kick ass, where can I buy one of those?

Funny shiz, I actually did ride one earlier this year when a rep stopped by trying to convince our store owners to carry Scott. I think they made a good choice.....

 

[rocpyro]

How does the aluminum version of the ransom hold up, or did they blow theyre wad on r&d for the carbon version?

 

[IndecentExposure]

Dude, I sympathize deeply.

However, it has always been an unwritten rule (perhaps all the engineering I took), that states:

All mountain riding and Carbon frames are an oxymoron.

the two just don't go together.

However, that doesn't mean that Scott shouldn't be beefing it up when they advertise it!

T

 

[Znarf]

Maybe now there´s the time, where bikes will stay the same weight or get a bit heavier again.
I am now roughly 15years into MTBing (although I was a kid when I started riding)
I´ve seen the different hypes. Light bikes, small tires then wide tires, semislicks, then heavier bikes+suspension, then freeride, heavy bikes. Now the "Freeride" (Enduro, All mountain, Freeride are the same thing in the end, just different interpretations) bikes are super light. And they don´t hold up when they´re too light.
I don´t talk about everybody using a Banshee Scream, but a bike like a Ransom with a super light build, all XTR or whatever, it just doesn´t seem REALISTIC to me. It weighs almost as much as a race full suspension. What are the top Ransoms, 27pounds or something like that? :idea:
My Heckler weighs maybe 32-33lbs. Burly build, not too light, heavy wheels, UST tires, Saint+Hone parts. Pike+piggyback shock. But no ass heavy parts either. And it climbs perfect, at least, when I am in perfect shape. I am very light, only 149lbs, so I COULD come away with a lighter build. But I don´t want to, biking is dangerous enough, even without the bike disintegrating under your feet

As soon as you become to much weight wheenie, something will fail at some point.
I mean, the AM/Enduro bikes have a very fun to "abuse" geometry, slack head angle, endless travel. Big brakes... you just HAVE to use them hard. Even if Marzocchi says, no jumping on a Marzocchi AM1, who cares? (Besides, Scott boldly printed in the german biking magazines, that you could do the REALLY gnarly,rooty,rocky DH Track in Bad Wildbad(DH world cup course) as often as you want on the carbon Ransom. Without any limitations)

On a race-hardtail no one will do consistently wheelies, manuals, drops etc. because it´s not fun. And the REAL racers, who do ride rough stuff on race-bikes, they tend to change their gear a lot, or they´re being sponsored. And they´re almost all really light guys.

For me a good bike has to be durable, besides other qualities. And a certain riding style means a certain "minimum" weight. This minimum weight sure does shrink, year to year.
But slower than the companies want to make us believe(oh oh, I am german, I hope my english is "understandable")

Now if you take a 35lbs bike and a 28lbs bike, both WELL constructed. The 35lbs bike will be more durable. Just because it has more material. Thicker tubing, whatever.
Take a FOX 36. Those things are really stiff and tough. But smash a stanchion into a rock and it can actually ovalize or get DENTS. I´ve seen that actually, the stanchion is FRIGGIn thin walled (on most big stanchion diameter forks).

OK sorry for the long text.
I am glad that you didn´t get hurt. Draw your consequences, get a burly build and ride the hell out of that nice bike. The Intense looks nice.
I would get a Nomad if I had that amount of money, but at least I am only a student (for now, maybe someday :thumbsup:

Greetings znarf

 

[umbertom]

(oh oh, I am german, I hope my english is "understandable")
Greetings znarf

completely
I like what you think

 

[All Mountain]

All mountain riding and Carbon frames are an oxymoron.

the two just don't go together.

Well stated.