[Karve]

So ive had a chance to get stuck into my new gambler 08 in the last few weeks... Nothing major but ive tested it out on some local stuff and given it a few big drops to think about.

Appearance

First off it is a stunning looking machine. I love how it looks… Appears more burly than its actual weight.. nice lines and very unique.

The welds seem good the alignment of the frame good. Ive seen the best in the biz as my other bike is a Nicolai. The overall package seems well sorted though and through.

Short rear end

I am riding a small and even at 5"8 / 173cm my short feels small when seated. I think this is just the seat position as once onboard its roomy enough. The plus here is that the seat is well out of the way on steep stuff… it's the logic behind the knolly v-tach as well so difficult to argue with. One of the first things I noticed is that with the short dropouts how agile and flickable it is... its like a bmx.. and the rear wheel feels like it is right underneath you. Quite possibly the most
agile bike I have ever ridden.

Low BB

The bike does feel as though it has a low bb but I have not bashed any pedals yet... all I can feel is more traction in corners than usual and a very stable feel in flight

Adjustable Head tube

Currently for local stuff I have been running it in FR mode which is supposed to equate to a 66 degree head angle. This is quite steep but does make it very manoeuvrable. I have a feeling that the 64 degree angle might be a little to slack.. but only long term usage will tell. Possibley offering aftermarket cups with different angles might make this even more customisable than it already is.. - say a tighter range like one with a 64.5 and 65.5 option. The jump from 64 to 66 is quite significant.

Overall

Overall I have never had a bike feel so good through the corners.. it produces more grip and holds more speed than I am used to and I am hitting everything that much quicker. eeeeeeeeeeeeeek

Having never ridden a single pivot before I was concerned about its well documented side effects. I haven't managed to as yet detect any stiffening under braking. I haven't really had the right type of course to test than on as yet. But I guess its all about the execution as a poor Horst can have all sorts of weirdness too. Very pleased so far.

I haven't quite got the big drops dialled in yet. I don't have a stiff enough spring in the rear to make a fair assessment. Im ramping up the boost and HS Compression on the DHX before I invest in another spring.

This really is 2 very good bikes on one.. in the short steep setting I can run with the pack on dirt jumps and tight local stuff.. and its nice and nimble on the shore Open it out and slack it and it becomes a monster stable track gobler.

One final thing…

The only downside so far is that in the UK I am yet to be convinced buy the importers support. There doesn't seem to be much stock of spare parts in the country… if I break anything I Imagine im in for a long wait. Also why so quiet about them on this board? The Nicolai board is way more busy and there are so many more people who own Scotts!

Major thanks to buckoW for all his help when I was making my mind up!

 

[buckoW]

Hey Karve

Cool write up. I am glad you are liking the bike.

There are new 65° straight head tubes. Let me know if you want to get one because they were just made not too long ago. I don't know how many are laying around but I can try and find a spare.

You can save over 100 grams if you run the 1.5 headtube with a FSA Orbit 1.5r headset and that gives you a bit of room to adjust the bb height and head angle due to the lower stack height on the headtube. With the new 65° plus the 64°/66° sleeve you can adjust bb height and head angle separately.

Have you tried the 190mm hole for drops? The 190mm hole is more progressive and was designed with drops in mind. It ramps up quicker and requires a lower spring rate. That setting is not as good for traction but very good for FR type drops and gaps.

If you ever need something let me know or contact the guys at Pierce City Cycles. I rode with them last summer over here and they are very knowledgeable about the Gambler and have done all kinds of tuning mods with TI bolts and custom carbon shock mounts. They are on it!

 

[buckoW]

Oh, I forgot something. With your seat at that height you can run the bigger offset post without the tire hitting at bottomout. That will give you a bit more seated room.

 

[Karve]

Yea cheers Ben ill drop you a note on that! Cheers for the advice on the shock setting ill give it a try and see how it works out.. so much to tweak and adjust - I love it!

 

[CA_Descender]

Definitely a good write up.
I have been playing around with the different setting for the last few months and decided to go with a short set up. Yeah it is a bit squirrely on some of the longer faster descents around here but for the local races it will work much better as the courses are tight.

Accessible parts is a pain. I HAD two Scott dealers, one within a 20min drive but he just closed up shop for good and the other a bit farther with a lot more traffic but if I need something I will need to order.

I also get a lot of questions on the bike as no one that I have seen rides one around here and they seem most interested in the ability to tweak the geo.

 

[Has Been]

Karve,
Hey buddy. I'm not sure why guys are referring to the Gambler as a single pivot design. It's a genuine 4 bar link style design. There are 4 pivot points, and also 4 "bars" or sections that intersect pivots. The older Octane version is a single pivot design, which has inherrent design and function flaws. The Gambler is no different than any of the bikes that currently pay for the "Specialized patented" design.
Just wanted to clear that one up. I've heard it enough times now...
Good to know you dig the bike.

Ride on!

 

[buckoW]

Karve,
Hey buddy. I'm not sure why guys are referring to the Gambler as a single pivot design. It's a genuine 4 bar link style design. There are 4 pivot points, and also 4 "bars" or sections that intersect pivots. The older Octane version is a single pivot design, which has inherrent design and function flaws. The Gambler is no different than any of the bikes that currently pay for the "Specialized patented" design.
Just wanted to clear that one up. I've heard it enough times now...
Good to know you dig the bike.

Ride on!

It is actually a single pivot with a linkage actuated shock. This makes for a much stiffer rear end without the pivot on the chainstay.

 

[mattsavage]

Karve,
Hey buddy. I'm not sure why guys are referring to the Gambler as a single pivot design. It's a genuine 4 bar link style design. There are 4 pivot points, and also 4 "bars" or sections that intersect pivots. The older Octane version is a single pivot design, which has inherrent design and function flaws. The Gambler is no different than any of the bikes that currently pay for the "Specialized patented" design.
Just wanted to clear that one up. I've heard it enough times now...
Good to know you dig the bike.

Ride on!

it's a single pivot, doesn't matter how many "bars" or linkages it has... The axle path is dictated by the radius point of the swingarm, that makes it a single pivot.

 

[Has Been]

BuckoW,
That's weird.. With the linkages and pivots, it seems like it would be a 4 bar style. I'll take your word, and consider it a single pivot. I don't understand why it's a single pivot with a linkage actuated shock. Looks like I need to do some more home work, thanks for clarifying...

 

[Has Been]

mattsavage,
BuckoW said the same thing. I guess I'll have to reconsider "what I know" and do more home work. I really thought that with 4 pivots and links like it has, it would be a 4 bar. Thanks for clarifying.:thumbsup:

 

[Karve]

yea other classic single pivots which could be mistaken for 4 bar horst's include Kona's, Transitions, Pre DW Link Turners

 

[mattsavage]

Ther term "four bar" originated from the automotive world, F1 specifically I believe. A true 4 bar design allows the rear axle to rotate, under loads, independent of the main swing arm pivot, keeping the suspension "active"

this is an older article" http://www.titusti.com/suspension.html#HLRASLD It doesn't include VPP, DW, Split, etc designs, but the principals are similar. It talks about main pivot locations and it's influence on braking/pedaling input, etc...

Also do a search on Mert Lawill and Horst Leitner, they were originators of bicycle specific four bar designs.

Scott has four bar designs in Europe, I think on the Genius and Spark, unless Specialized got to them overseas somehow...

Regardless, the Gambler suspension is a great design. It balances the line between active pedaling and minimal brake jack. In a racing scenario, it'd be hard to beat if it had a Floater in the rear!

 

[midas]

So then, what type of suspension design is the new Genius?

(and if someone could point to me the Horst link in a bike picture I'd really appreciate it, as I haven't found anything like that on the web, just descriptions. Sorry for being off-topic!)

 

[Karve]

So then, what type of suspension design is the new Genius?

(and if someone could point to me the Horst link in a bike picture I'd really appreciate it, as I haven't found anything like that on the web, just descriptions. Sorry for being off-topic!)

heres one

https://www.nicolai.net/imgs/prod/xxl/08-hel-fr.jpg

see how the drop out is attached to the seatstay rather than the chainstay.

The new Scott Genius is definitely a linkage actuated single pivot as the drop out is attached to the chain stay.

 

[midas]

Cheers Karve, that makes it clear...

...linkage actuated single pivot? I need to find out more - although "single-pivot" doesn't sound that great , oh well...

 

[nuclear_powered]

So then, what type of suspension design is the new Genius?

Up until 2009 model, the Genius was Horst Link - i.e. rear pivot point is on chainstay, below the line of rear axel.

2009 model Genius, just like Spark, Ransom and Gambler, has the pivot on the seatstay instead. Going by BuckoW's terminology, that also makes it a linkage actuated single pivot suspension. The Genius has one other unique suspension factor - a pull-shock. This has always been on the Genius line.

I also get a lot of questions on the bike as no one that I have seen rides one around here and they seem most interested in the ability to tweak the geo.

Still running the Delta8? When we gonna see some more pics dude??

 

[CA_Descender]

Still running the Delta8? When we gonna see some more pics dude??

Don't take a lot of pics when we ride, video yeah but I am usually the one behind the camera. If someone gets a good riding shot I'll post up but yeah, I am still running the Delta and it is working great. Actually saw someone else running one at the last race.

 

[gruczniak]

Karve: kick a$$ bike.
Recently FR20 got into my possession and I have a question to Gambler owners: what spring do you run?
I am asking as I am heavy (98kg with gear) and Scott manual for 80-90 and 230 setting suggests 500LBS spring. That would be ok, except I am far away from 80 and not that close to 90.

Any info welcome.

 

[Jayem]

it's a single pivot, doesn't matter how many "bars" or linkages it has... The axle path is dictated by the radius point of the swingarm, that makes it a single pivot.

The term 4-bar is even more general than automotive. it just means there are 4 parts, it doesn't mean the axle has to be on one specific parts. So there's the frame, moving bar 1 (usually chainstay) moving bar 2 (usually seatstay) and linkage, but there are variations. Moto-link bikes are also 4-bar, as they fit the same general criteria. Back when MTB suspension bikes first started to become prevalent, we referred to linkage-actuated bikes as "4-bars", because they simply had 4-bars. There have even been a few examples of 6-bar bikes, knolly and the schwinn DH8 (plus a few others) with the extra-linkage at the shock to make it more progressive.

The thing is, specialized's marketing deparment had a genius idea: Why not call our bike a "true" 4-bar and everything else a "faux-bar"? They did this, and eventually that's what people started believing.

 

[Karve]

Karve: kick a$$ bike.
Recently FR20 got into my possession and I have a question to Gambler owners: what spring do you run?
I am asking as I am heavy (98kg with gear) and Scott manual for 80-90 and 230 setting suggests 500LBS spring. That would be ok, except I am far away from 80 and not that close to 90.

Any info welcome.

Looks like you will be on the cusp of a 550 and a 600. Depending on where you are they can be had fairly easily.

http://www.stendec-works.com/products/spring_chart.asp