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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
So my first outing on the 7point5 went really well this weekend. The only exception being I nearly puked after the "wall" section! I've never pedelled so hard in my life! I really enjoyed the whole event so now, like all the other DH'ers on the planet- I want to start modding my bike out. The first issue is to get the thing lighter and the place to start is the wheels- so here comes a few questions for all you savey DH fellows:

1) I've been looking at getting some lighter wheels. The DeeMax's are huge money- along with the DT 2350's(or what ever the exact number is). I want tubless, so I start thinking about building a set of ex823's on Hadley's. Again- big dollars. So I look at my Hubs(WTB Laser Disc) and they are lighter than the Hadley's, the Hopes, King's etc.! They role smooth as glass as well. So now I'm pretty set on just getting some hoops to replace my ex325's. The DT 6.1D's are the lightest of the high end rims- does anyone know if they are tubeless/UST? My second pick is EX823's. What does everyone here think between these two rims? What spoke should I run? DT Revolutions with Alloy Nipples?

2) Second issue- does a guy really need such gnarly cranks)FSA V drive extreme) for DH? I don't plan on doing any 30" drops anytime soon, so couldn't I get away with a lighter setup- say Shimano XT's for example? I've never heard of anyone ever braking a crank. I'm sure it has happened, but doing what? I would think a lighter crank would work for DH with the exception of really hardcore freeride- which I don't think truely exists in So Cal.

Any and all input is appreciated. Thanks
 

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1) Those hubs will be great. For tubeless, just run a Stans kit, it works better than UST. DT Rims are known to dent. Arguably the best DH rim out there right now is the Mavic 721, I would recommend those w/ Stans.

2) The issue with your cranks is your bike has an 83mm BB shell, so you can't run XT cranks. You can run Saints, Diablous, some FSAs, and ISIS cranks. However, if your bike still has 2 chainrings and you want a more DH-only setup, I recommend using a lighter chainguide (look at a Gamut G40 or e13 LG1) with a 36t chainring. With a mountain cassette you'll have lots of range and because you lose your front shifter, derailleur, and heavy chainguide you'll drop weight.

Some easy weight-savers: cut seatpost, cut steerer tube on fork.
 

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823's are great. I've had a set for 2 seasons now on my DH rig with no problems. They are exactly like DEEMAX rims. (no nipple holes) I haven't tried Stans strips on a normal rim yet, (I use Stans sealant thought...) but if you use UST tires with 823's, it's smooth sailing. If you want to drop weight, use 823's with Maxxis Minion or High Roller UST 2.5 tires... LIGHT! UST tires tend to come with a soft compound, so if you want long lasting tires, forget it... I take the good with the bad I guess...
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Ojai Bicyclist said:
1) Those hubs will be great. For tubeless, just run a Stans kit, it works better than UST. DT Rims are known to dent. Arguably the best DH rim out there right now is the Mavic 721, I would recommend those w/ Stans.

2) The issue with your cranks is your bike has an 83mm BB shell, so you can't run XT cranks. You can run Saints, Diablous, some FSAs, and ISIS cranks. However, if your bike still has 2 chainrings and you want a more DH-only setup, I recommend using a lighter chainguide (look at a Gamut G40 or e13 LG1) with a 36t chainring. With a mountain cassette you'll have lots of range and because you lose your front shifter, derailleur, and heavy chainguide you'll drop weight.

Some easy weight-savers: cut seatpost, cut steerer tube on fork.
Thanks for the quick replies. Right now I'm running the "ghetto" tubeless setup and so far- so good. I'm not losing any signifigant pressure- but I'm a little nervous because there are moist spots(after riding) where the beed meets the rim like it's burping- I don't want to roll a bead off at speed, that's for sure.

On the BB issue- if my bike is 83mm- what is the standard size? What would be the lightest cranks I could/should run(safely)?

Thanks for the input Cliff
 

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Uncle Cliffy said:
823's are great. I've had a set for 2 seasons now on my DH rig with no problems. They are exactly like DEEMAX rims. (no nipple holes) I haven't tried Stans strips on a normal rim yet, (I use Stans sealant thought...) but if you use UST tires with 823's, it's smooth sailing. If you want to drop weight, use 823's with Maxxis Minion or High Roller UST 2.5 tires... LIGHT! UST tires tend to come with a soft compound, so if you want long lasting tires, forget it... I take the good with the bad I guess...
good stuff...but highrollers and Minions weigh 1300 grams for 2.5 tires...that is why I went to those ugly red tires by Michelin at 850grams (about a pound a tire) and that is rolling weight. I gave up traction...they are a little hard, but gained on the wall

I would buy the 823 hoops and lace it up to your current hubs (since you like them) ....remember tubeless mean no innertube so that saves weight

Here are some 32 hole rims...maybe you can score if you have 32 hole hubs
 

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The red tires are sweet! I haven't seen those for a while... I can't see running those on my DH bike though... for DH it's either the Michelin comp series UST or the Maxxis UST. Maxxis for weight a little, but more because they roll way faster than the comp 16's I currently have on my wheels. Michelins DH tires roll like fly paper, but they sure work good on wet skinnys...
 

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chuckie108 said:
Thanks for the quick replies. Right now I'm running the "ghetto" tubeless setup and so far- so good. I'm not losing any signifigant pressure- but I'm a little nervous because there are moist spots(after riding) where the beed meets the rim like it's burping- I don't want to roll a bead off at speed, that's for sure.

On the BB issue- if my bike is 83mm- what is the standard size? What would be the lightest cranks I could/should run(safely)?

Thanks for the input Cliff
The wet spots are just where your tire is burping a little, just make sure you check your pressure after each run. I wouldn't worry about it. As for tubeless, I've heard second hand, that mavic 729's run with tubeless strips (stans or maxis) are actually lighter than 823's with ust tires, I can't confirm this, but it's something to look into. As for tire choice, I think the Kenda Nev. 2.5's w/ folding bead are about the same weight as thoes fugly red tires SMT is talking about, not positive, but again, worth checking out.
Crank wise, 68-73 is standard size, for 83, middleburn cranks I think are going to be one of the lightest options. Also check out Truvativ OCTS, don't know the actual weight though.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Just for the record- I won my class Saturday in the XC. Endurance isn't the problem- 2:45 straight at Max HR will take a toll on anyone. Although I am going to do more sprint/DH specific training now. You are right though- endurance is probably more important than modding your bike. :thumbsup:
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
fred.r said:
The wet spots are just where your tire is burping a little, just make sure you check your pressure after each run. I wouldn't worry about it. As for tubeless, I've heard second hand, that mavic 729's run with tubeless strips (stans or maxis) are actually lighter than 823's with ust tires, I can't confirm this, but it's something to look into. As for tire choice, I think the Kenda Nev. 2.5's w/ folding bead are about the same weight as thoes fugly red tires SMT is talking about, not positive, but again, worth checking out.
Crank wise, 68-73 is standard size, for 83, middleburn cranks I think are going to be one of the lightest options. Also check out Truvativ OCTS, don't know the actual weight though.
Those Middleburn cranks look like just the ticket- anyone know where I can get a set and what they cost?
 

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chuckie108 said:
Just for the record- I won my class Saturday in the XC. Endurance isn't the problem- 2:45 straight at Max HR will take a toll on anyone. Although I am going to do more sprint/DH specific training now. You are right though- endurance is probably more important than modding your bike. :thumbsup:
If you're winning XC races then you got a big advantage at Fontana. Towards the end of the downhill race I watched an xc dude BLOW past the dude in front of him, I mean the dh guy didn't have a chance.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
fred.r said:
If you're winning XC races then you got a big advantage at Fontana. Towards the end of the downhill race I watched an xc dude BLOW past the dude in front of him, I mean the dh guy didn't have a chance.
I agree, I'm sure it helps. That is kinda why I started this post- I don't think people realize what a big difference 10 pounds in bike weight makes. My XC/Trail bikes is 27 lbs. My IH is 43. That's 16 pounds! I kind feel everyone goes crazy on making there bikes super burley- and for a really gnar course that is probably the way to go. For southridge, the last 1:00 of the course is nearly a flat sprint(with the excpetion of the lower rock garden which takes 6-12 seconds to get through depending on skill level). There is big time to be made up there with good sprinting skills and lighter equipment. I noticed Houseman(sp?) wasn't on a 303 this weekend. I'm totally new to DH- so I'm just trying to figure it all out.
 

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1) The 6.1d is not UST, but DT does sell a kit (like Stan's) to convert it to tubeless, and the rim weighs in at 595g. The EX823 (according to weightweenies.com) weighs 640g with special nipples. I haven't ridden DT Swiss, but I have had a few Mavic rims, and I've been so happy with them, I'd go for the Mavic rims. But, that is 45g more rotational weight. If you're a light and/or "flowy" rider, you can do double-butted spokes w/alloy nipples to save weight. If you're a "plower", or a heavy rider, get straight spokes with brass nipples. I used to use lighter rims with straight spokes and brass nipples, but I found that a stronger rim with double butted spokes and alloy nipples works better.....for me.

2) On this one, I ride rocky trails, so I'm always hitting my cranks. I've been using Truvativ Holzfellers and they've worked VERY well. If you don't mind spending $$$, you can go for a lighter crank, just expect to replace them more often than not.

P.S. Doesn't the wall suck!:madman:
 

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hbfrdh1 said:
1) The 6.1d is not UST, but DT does sell a kit (like Stan's) to convert it to tubeless, and the rim weighs in at 595g. The EX823 (according to weightweenies.com) weighs 640g with special nipples. I haven't ridden DT Swiss, but I have had a few Mavic rims, and I've been so happy with them, I'd go for the Mavic rims. But, that is 45g more rotational weight. If you're a light and/or "flowy" rider, you can do double-butted spokes w/alloy nipples to save weight. If you're a "plower", or a heavy rider, get straight spokes with brass nipples. I used to use lighter rims with straight spokes and brass nipples, but I found that a stronger rim with double butted spokes and alloy nipples works better.....for me.
Where does DT-swiss make a 6.1 tubeless kit? They only made one for the 5.1's as far as I knew.

Even if they did, it'd be 595g + tubless kit (usually ~80-100g).

If you're running a tube in the 6.1 vs no tube in the 823, they're about the same if you're running a really lightweight tube.

The EX823 is not 640g w/nipple inserts (its more like 730-740g).

The weight savings of aluminum nipples is ~20g/wheel.
 

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chuckie108 said:
Just for the record- I won my class Saturday in the XC. Endurance isn't the problem- 2:45 straight at Max HR will take a toll on anyone. Although I am going to do more sprint/DH specific training now. You are right though- endurance is probably more important than modding your bike. :thumbsup:
Well then, scratch that thought. But yeah, I know what you mean about 100% peddaling for extended periods. I guess I should contribute some useful info. Maybe you should go with a lightweight saddle. I'm gueesing the stock on is relativley heavy. So that could be 100-200 grams
 

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chuckie108 said:
Just for the record- I won my class Saturday in the XC. Endurance isn't the problem- 2:45 straight at Max HR will take a toll on anyone. Although I am going to do more sprint/DH specific training now. You are right though- endurance is probably more important than modding your bike. :thumbsup:
what class?
 
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