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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Any personal experiences and/or suggestions which way to go?
I just got my tax return done, and will have a little $$ for a new wheelset for my rigid On One Inbred SS.
I decided on the I9 hubs, now to pick the rims for them. I primarily ride XC, but rocky east coast trails.
I plan to try Rampages or Nevegals. Right now I run Ignitors tubless with Stans kit, and plan on the same with the new wheels.
Both rims are nice and wide for extra volume for rigid, 28-29 mm wide. Both are about the same weight, 470-500 g. Delgados have been around for a while and have a reputation as strong rims and are half the price of Flows, but are not approved for Stans conversion. Flows obviously are approved for the kit, and are marginally lighter, but are significantly mor expensive.

Help me decide.

dz
 

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I would think the Flows would be the best bet for any tubeless attempt. It's pretty well documented that there a fewer successes with Salsa discs than with any Stans rims. I'll most likely be a tube guy for a while when it comes to 29ers and 207 lbs!

We probably ride the same places (Wiss, DE.spots) and the Salsa's have been excellent (with tubes). I love the extra width.

SS
 

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Flow is claimed 525g, Delgado's are reported around 500g.
Flow has no eyelets in that weight, so I'd expect it to be considerably stiffer, should it be of similar alu and quality.

I'd rather compare the 470g ZTR Arch rim with the Delgado. The ZTR BST rim walls are supposed to add volume to the tire, but do the beads really stay sitting on the bottom of the rim walls of non-BST rims, and does BST just reduce overall wheel height?
I'm shopping for rear wheel parts, geared. should the Arch come in 36h, that'd be it over the Salsa. In 32h only, the Flow makes more sence. Similar overall weight (25g for 4 spokes offsets rim weight), perhaps also close in strength again. Price would be my main consideration than.

I'm not sure rider weight (with beefier ZTR rims) is a consideration for tubeless or tubed? Unless you'd feel you need higher than advised tire pressures for the ZTRs.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Oops, Cloxxi is correct, I must've remembered (wishful thinking) Arch's weight of 470g instead of Flow's 525g.
But Arches are 24 mm wide vs. Flow (28) and Delgado (29).
My current wheelset are WTB laser lites with ZTR 355s. Two main reasons for upgrade would be wider rim and better engagement of I9s (3 degree) vs WTBs (15 degrees).
I, too, like the sound of the BST for the extra volume.

Plus I will run them tubless conversion, so I'm a little concerned with the fact that Delgados aren't officially compatible. However, if people have converted them and had success that might not be an issue.

I'm happy with 30 psi in my Ignitors on ZTR 355s right now.

If it matters, Swami is correct, the same places as he rides, Wiss etc. and I'm about 180-190 lbs
 

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Cloxxki said:
I'm not sure rider weight (with beefier ZTR rims) is a consideration for tubeless or tubed? Unless you'd feel you need higher than advised tire pressures for the ZTRs.
I don't think I'm the first to point out the correlation of rider weight and tubeless. Is that incorrect? I don't claim to be a guru so please elaborate.
 

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very happy with delgado...

very happy with the delgados on kings. i too ride ne singletrack rocky etc...

run a nevegal in the rear and something a little smoother up front and youll be in great shape.
 
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you usually get what you pay for.

the delgado is pretty light, but soft and not very durable in my experience.

i don't run stans rims personally, but i have built two wheelsets with his rims for my wife. (ZTR Olympics on her Stumpy and 355 29ers on her Dos). both of those wheelsets built up nice, the rims didn't have the soft feel of the delgados. both wheelsets have stayed pretty true, even after the wife put a decent sized dent in the rear one on her Stumpy in Moab.

i built three wheels with delgados for myself. i got them when they first came out. they are pretty light but could not stand up to my abuse. i destroyed the front on a drop in June, put a serious hurting on me doing so. i bought a new delgado and rebuilt the wheel because i really didn't want the weight of a beefier rim. i then destroyed the rear some time in November i think. the failure on the front should not have happened, the one on the rear i am pretty sure that any wheel would have folded. the rear rim was pretty much garbage before i folded it up though.

i personally have switched over to Rhino Lites and they are pretty stout. no issues with staying true and no sign of weakness. they are heavier though.

my money would go to trying the new stans rim before buying another delgado. that is just me though, i am pretty rough on parts.
 

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I wonder what the circumstances are that your destroying wheels? Im not trying to argue but I ride with a lot of people, and have been riding for a long time, and most of us are XC junkies who have had no problems wit wheels unless there's an a) crash or b) very hard hit on a rock when someone was running too low a PSI. That said- most of us don't do anything tat would resemble a drop-off and abuse is relative.

I know 10 people that are running delgado disc's and are very satisfied- in fact- itseems to be a build tha becoming more and more common around here.

Mine are holding true, no issues after 2 months. i weigh 175-180 and am 5"9 (+1/2). rhino's always struck me as very stout wheels- with an excellent rep with the biger guys.

are your wheels getting destroyed through the course of a normal day for you- eg. abuse? Whats the abuse? just lookin out for the wheels! they are expensive!
 

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Cloxxki said:
. should the Arch come in 36h, that'd be it over the Salsa.
There was an entry in the contest asking if people would be interested in 36 holes versions of the rims. Unfortunately it didn't push Stan to make the move :madman:

We need 36 holes for the 29" rims, to be able to build a light and rigid whell with nice spokes (like CX-rays)
 

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20.100 FR said:
There was an entry in the contest asking if people would be interested in 36 holes versions of the rims. Unfortunately it didn't push Stan to make the move :madman:

We need 36 holes for the 29" rims, to be able to build a light and rigid whell with nice spokes (like CX-rays)
This stuff makes me doubt myself at times. The most innovative company in the bizz is not seeing things the way I do :)

We either need 36h rims as the standard for rear wheels, or (actually, both) adoption of a wider rear hub standard. 150mm at least. A dishless Singlespeed hub just makes for such a durable wheel. Like a wide flanged non-disc front hub. Nearly no weight penalty (add 15mm to the lightest bit of a hub), great triangulation gain. Lower spoke tension should appeal to NoTubes (no eyelets there). Both 36h and wider hubs would bring that.
If I ever go custom with a frame, it will have 150mm+ rear hub width for sure.

Since the Flow at 525g is around 25g heavier than the Salsa, but likely more of that in appropriate places for rigidity as there's no eyelets in that weight, it may make up for the 4 spokes (also 25g) less than on the 36h Salsa we could get.
 

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dzm3 said:
Any personal experiences and/or suggestions which way to go?
I just got my tax return done, and will have a little $$ for a new wheelset for my rigid On One Inbred SS.
I decided on the I9 hubs, now to pick the rims for them. I primarily ride XC, but rocky east coast trails.
I plan to try Rampages or Nevegals. Right now I run Ignitors tubless with Stans kit, and plan on the same with the new wheels.
Both rims are nice and wide for extra volume for rigid, 28-29 mm wide. Both are about the same weight, 470-500 g. Delgados have been around for a while and have a reputation as strong rims and are half the price of Flows, but are not approved for Stans conversion. Flows obviously are approved for the kit, and are marginally lighter, but are significantly mor expensive.

Help me decide.

dz
If you're thinking of the Stans Arch, you're probably on the right track. They're ~448g/rim compared to the 490g/rim of the Salsa's. The Stans build easier and seem significantly stiffer in the stand than the Salsa's--for what that's worth. Haven't ridden the Arch on trail yet, so I can't compare it there. Won't know about long-term durability on the Arch for at least a few months.

If you want to stick with tubeless it seems your decision is already made for you--the Arch is a no brainer here.

Your weight will also be a big determining factor in which rim is right for you.

MC
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
mikesee said:
If you're thinking of the Stans Arch, you're probably on the right track. They're ~448g/rim compared to the 490g/rim of the Salsa's. The Stans build easier and seem significantly stiffer in the stand than the Salsa's--for what that's worth. Haven't ridden the Arch on trail yet, so I can't compare it there. Won't know about long-term durability on the Arch for at least a few months.

If you want to stick with tubeless it seems your decision is already made for you--the Arch is a no brainer here.

Your weight will also be a big determining factor in which rim is right for you.

MC
Mike, thanks for the reply. I'm around 180-190 depending on the time of the year. Ride XC, no big drops or jumps, occasional small air only, but lots of east coast rocks.

I was looking at Flows. I had my numbers on the weighs mixed up. I run ZTR 355s right now, so Arches wouldn't offer much more than 355s. Flows on the other hand are significantly wider. And yes, I will run them tubless converted.
I like the sounds of I9 SS rear hub for the "no-dish" design, in addition to the 3 degree engagement.
So that's what I'm looking to build, I9s laced to Flows. Just was wondering if it would be worth saving about $100 going with Delgados vs Flows, since they are so close on paper, width within 1 mm, weight within 25 g.

You, guys, pointed out that Flows are non-eyeleted unlike Delgados, so there is probably more like 50+ gramms of material to make Flows stronger and stiffer. I did not think of that. Thanks.

I think I'm getting close to the decision.

dz
 

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dzm3 said:
I think I'm getting close to the decision.
FWIW I laced up a Flow to a Phil disc hub (front) yesterday with CX-Rays and alloy SILS nipples, slapped a Rampage on this morning, and thrashed it around for about two hours today on my local root infested trails on my rigid setup.

I rode pretty hard, so hard that I broke a CX-Ray (at the elbow) on the TK 7.1 rim I had on the back with a Rohloff hub which is a symmetrical build. I've been using CX-rays for several years now on numerous wheels with no previous problems so don't know what happened there.

Anyway the Flow came back perfectly true and no worse for wear. They trued up pretty easy, although there was more vertical wobble (ie the hoop isn't perfectly round) than I've experienced with Mavic, DT, etc, probably 1+mm out of round which doesn't sound like much but looked worse than most other rims in the stand. Not significant though, when you've got a huge knobbed tire on there.

The one thing I noticed also was that since these are disc only with no milled sidewall, there were more tiny imperfections in the sidewall that made it difficult to get a really smooth, perfectly even true. It was kind of like the sides were painted with thick paint. Hard to describe, but meaningless in that they're disc only and overall the rim took a nice true.

BTW, these are light-years better than the POS original 400g Stan's 29er rims which would absolutely not hold true, at least not for me. Props to Mike at Stan's for his help in taking care of me with regard to that!

I used the yellow tape, and the tire mounted with that comforting popping sound as the bead seats.

BTW, I got two Flows, one was 529g, the other 531. That was before I took off the gaudy sticker which probably weighed 20g!

I'd say it's a no-brainer, go with the...er...Flows!
 

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The CX-Rays, so says my master builder, have SUCH stiff bladed sections, that all the flex will have to come from the really short non-bladed parts. One end is straight pull, one has a bend, one will have to give. I've broken several CX-Rays, laced by absolute pro builders. Once I stripped an alu nipple.
I woud use CX-Rays for all wheels (Revo-light, Comp-stiff), if they'd not let me down once in a while like that, and cost a hamburger a piece. If only I could borrow someone's pneumatic press for a couple hours...
 

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Allow me a question: there seem to be two main groups of rims: the ones like the Arch or the DT TK7.1 with a width of about 24mm or so, and then the Delgado and the Flow with more than 28mm width. There seems to be good reasons for both types, what are they, what are their distinct advantages? Sorry for the ignorance, I'm pretty new at this.
 

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A little late to the party, but I will be building up my I9's on some Flows this week (I hope). I bent a Bonty rim necessitating the swap, and I actually wanted this rim back when I originally had the I9's built. It wasn't available at the time.
On paper (IMHO) it looks like THE rim for big volume tubeless basher riding. I can't wait.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
teamdicky said:
A little late to the party, but I will be building up my I9's on some Flows this week (I hope). I bent a Bonty rim necessitating the swap, and I actually wanted this rim back when I originally had the I9's built. It wasn't available at the time.
On paper (IMHO) it looks like THE rim for big volume tubeless basher riding. I can't wait.
Let us know how it goes after you're done. I just got a confirmation, my order for I9s with Stans Flows has been accepted by I9 and the wheels will be ready in 4-6 weeks.
The rampages are in the mail, and friendly UPS brown will be dropping them off on my front porch on Thursday!

I can't wait too!

dz
 

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Padre said:
My Arch/240 wheelset has been built.
Appears that the rim builds up w/ the standard Stan's floppiness.

Builds up about 50g lighter than the Del's...

Again...this could be a fiasco.
"Stans floppiness" that doesn't sound good. I'm contemplating changing my build from Delgado disc to Arch but might not if you're reporting a possible fiasco!

Keep us informed :thumbsup:
 
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