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hell no...

the new Race Face X-Type diablous crank set is much much better than the saint crank...read the reviews on NSMB...
 

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CanadianHooligan said:
Really?..I thought the Saint line was awesome..I havent really seen the RaceFace ones.. :(
Dude - I fondled both of them in person . . . which is not to say that I rode them but I've at least seen and felt their construction. That Saint bashguard is frickin' plastic! I swear . . . as a designer, you gotta be the world's biggest weight weenie to spec a freeride bashguard from plastic. It seems really dumb and makes me question how commited Shimano is to ultra-rugged performance on a cost-no-object product line.

The Saint cranks look good and they feel a little lighter than the Diabolous. Maybe weight's a big factor for you but I doubt it if you're in need of the industry's burliest freeride cranks. I think the Diabolous looks much better and my gut feeling is that it's more durable than the Saint but both of these products are ludicrously beefy.

Apparently the RaceFace Diabolous bottom bracket is better shielded from crud than the Shimano. It's all hearsay from me but you should hunt around for other people's opinions and exploded view assembly drawings on that issue. RaceFace has a dirt shield built into the BB from one of their drawings (might be the flash animation on their website intro).

Most importantly, I think you should support Canadian product development - you wannabe Canuck bandying this "Canadian" alias. ;) As a Canadian mechanical engineer, I think it's great that RaceFace are a world-class cutting-edge design / marketing / manufacturing facility. Besides, Diabolous is typically cheaper than Saint. And you bet your ass your RaceFace lifetime warranty will actually mean something compared to the denials and run-arounds from the big S. RaceFace are a stand-up outfit for warranty claims. It's a no-brainer as far as I'm concerned for a product you know you're buying to abuse. Go for the Diabolous.
 

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Dave99 said:
Dude - I fondled both of them in person . . . which is not to say that I rode them but I've at least seen and felt their construction. That Saint bashguard is frickin' plastic! I swear . . . as a designer, you gotta be the world's biggest weight weenie to spec a freeride bashguard from plastic. It seems really dumb and makes me question how commited Shimano is to ultra-rugged performance on a cost-no-object product line.
Yeah, what dumbass would do something like that
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
 

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Can't comment on all your opinions, but I can attest to the Saint. It's a real stiff crank. The Saint cups have issues (based on reviews), not that they've happened to me yet... but getting some RF cups is pretty cheap.

And the Saint bash guard is fantastic. It takes a lot more than it looks. And it's cheap to replace. Maybe the RF setup is better, maybe it's not... but comment on what you know.
 

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CanadianHooligan said:
This might be a stupid question,whats that?Is that the guard on the Shimano or RaceFace?
That's the e.13 (formerly Evil bikes) makalron (sp?) bash guard. Basically a plastic bash guard. Plastic bash guards are actually better than metal IMHO (unless your doing trials). All the metal guards I've tried tend to hang up and dent on stuff while the plastic ones slide. I don't have one yet, it's in the mail... but I can't wait to replace my current metal one!
 

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Slack said:
Yeah, what dumbass would do something like that
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
That's not the same thing as the Saint bashguard. The Saint bashguard is NOT solid plastic like the E-Thirteen Supercharger. It's a thinned plastic shell with reinforcing ribs arranged as a series of tall alternating triangular features. The plastic looks very much like an impact-resistant thermoplast. There's no doubt this is a volume-manufacturing cost-reduction compared to expensive machining from Al billet.

My massive heat-treated 6061-T6 bashguard is munched up and deformed by rocks and concrete. A thin plastic shell bashguard for freeride and DH seems like a bad idea to me. Maybe I'm just old-fashioned but I remember a lot of my plastic toys breaking as a kid. Now add 200 lbs and 60 km/h worth of momentum to the mix. I don't know why you'd willingly pay more money for that Saint bashguard compared to a nice aluminum bashguard from RaceFace.
 

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Dave99 said:
That's not the same thing as the Saint bashguard. The Saint bashguard is NOT solid plastic like the E-Thirteen Supercharger. It's a thinned plastic shell with reinforcing ribs arranged as a series of tall alternating triangular features. The plastic looks very much like an impact-resistant thermoplast. There's no doubt this is a volume-manufacturing cost-reduction compared to expensive machining from Al billet.

My massive heat-treated 6061-T6 bashguard is munched up and deformed by rocks and concrete. A thin plastic shell bashguard for freeride and DH seems like a bad idea to me. Maybe I'm just old-fashioned but I remember a lot of my plastic toys breaking as a kid. Now add 200 lbs and 60 km/h worth of momentum to the mix. I don't know why you'd willingly pay more money for that Saint bashguard compared to a nice aluminum bashguard from RaceFace.
I can't comment on Shimano's guard because I've never seen one and really don't know squat about it. It may well be crap :confused:

But, platics are very good and useful material for all kinds of stuff. Things have changed a lot in the past coupe/few decades.

Remember these
 

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Slack said:
I can't comment on Shimano's guard because I've never seen one and really don't know squat about it. It may well be crap :confused:

But, platics are very good and useful material for all kinds of stuff. Things have changed a lot in the past coupe/few decades.

Remember these
Yeah - plastics have become very strong - especially if the manufacturer is willing to pay for the good stuff. The e-Thirteen looks like an interesting design. It's massive so I imagine it is pretty resilient. What bothers me about the Saint bashguard is that the thin plastic shell is not reinforced everywhere . . . just at the rib interfaces. Maybe it's enough. My personal bias is that metals are ductile and malleable. They absorb stress by strain deformation and can therefore take beat after beat without failure. Plastics tend to be brittle and fracture. It just seems like an unnecessary potential headache based on my personal biases. I don't hate plastics . . . but I'd rather see metal all other things being equal.
 

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Plastics and cranks...

The E-13 guides have been extremely sucessful for many reasons: First, the plastic bash guard is maintenance free. They work, they don't bend, chip, dent, develop burrs that hook the chain or any of the other annoying features that metal bash guards have. However, the reason that the E-13 guard is so good is that the plastic that is used has very good impact properties and it has sufficiently high amounts of material to handle these hits. As for the Shimano bash guard, only time will tell if their minimalistic design will hold up.

As far as the cranks themselves are concerned, I have far more respect for the design of the Raceface crank over the Saint crank. There are several advantages to the Raceface Diabolus crank, including its wider axle width of 118 vs. 113 which allows more room for chainguides. Additionally, the Diabolus crank has 7mm of lateral adjustment; the Saint crank has none. Further more, the back end of the Saint crank has clearance issues on some frames. The Raceface crank has bearing shields and has a great (but not original) crank removal bolt integrated into it.

Add on Raceface's excellent warrany support and I don't think that there is much of a comparison. The only thing I can knock Raceface for is not bringing out longer BB axle lengths (Diabolus is 118mm and Atlas is 113 - it will be nice when they have 128 and 118mm respectively) right off the bat, but I guess that's a pretty small market segment. Otherwise, I really, really like the design far more than the Saint Crank design.
 

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Thanks, Noel.

knollybikes.com said:
The E-13 guides have been extremely sucessful for many reasons: First, the plastic bash guard is maintenance free. They work, they don't bend, chip, dent, develop burrs that hook the chain or any of the other annoying features that metal bash guards have. However, the reason that the E-13 guard is so good is that the plastic that is used has very good impact properties and it has sufficiently high amounts of material to handle these hits. As for the Shimano bash guard, only time will tell if their minimalistic design will hold up.

As far as the cranks themselves are concerned, I have far more respect for the design of the Raceface crank over the Saint crank. There are several advantages to the Raceface Diabolus crank, including its wider axle width of 118 vs. 113 which allows more room for chainguides. Additionally, the Diabolus crank has 7mm of lateral adjustment; the Saint crank has none. Further more, the back end of the Saint crank has clearance issues on some frames. The Raceface crank has bearing shields and has a great (but not original) crank removal bolt integrated into it.

Add on Raceface's excellent warrany support and I don't think that there is much of a comparison. The only thing I can knock Raceface for is not bringing out longer BB axle lengths (Diabolus is 118mm and Atlas is 113 - it will be nice when they have 128 and 118mm respectively) right off the bat, but I guess that's a pretty small market segment. Otherwise, I really, really like the design far more than the Saint Crank design.
That is the kind of informed review that was needed here. I am hoping that my shop will send me to Interbike this year. Are you going?
 
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