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giddy up!
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3,249 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Has anyone else been watching the news this morning?

It looks like all of the likely winners of the 2006 tour have been suspended due to yet another doping scandal.

Check www.cyclingnews.com

Sad.

B
 

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Jackbooted Elitist Hipstr
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747 Posts
Damn Dopers

I'm so sick of cheaters.

Seems like it's just the norm these days across the board. It's accepted. Pro baseball and football players do it and get away with it, rewriting the record books at the expense of clean players that came before. Global Corporations do it and get away with it at the expense of workers, the environment, local communities and our kids. The President does it and gets away with it at the expense of the Constitution and our individual rights. Our culture rewards victory at all costs and looks the other way if the means to acheive victory are dubious. (Sorry for the political commentary, don't want to start a flame war. Just illustrating my point.)

Of course I'll still watch because the Tour will really be wide open this year. Should be quite a show and we could well have an American on the podium. Oops, there's my zealous nationalism showing through!

Hey Donkey, you made any decisions on Crested Butte?
 

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HIKE!
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1,657 Posts
Great Day for the Tour!

About time, start yanking out the cheaters from here on out. I'd look at it more as a great day for the Tour and the start of actually enforcing doping laws to make it a sport of athletes, not team doctors. Maybe 2006 is the year the Tour changes for the better. Even with so many top dogs out of the run, there will still be fine racing to be seen.
 

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Always Learning
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9,608 Posts
donkey said:
Has anyone else been watching the news this morning?

It looks like all of the likely winners of the 2006 tour have been suspended due to yet another doping scandal.

Check www.cyclingnews.com

Sad.

B
Especially in the European climate of "guilty until proven innocent". Provided there is anyone left to ride by tomorrow morning's start of the TDF, it will provide a nice surprise for this year's event. MIght even clear the deck for some Americans to pedal up to the top spots. Levi? George? Floyd?

Now, where are my bottles of SportLegs, my eCaps, my vitamins, my Advil, my allergy pills, my asthma medication and my coffee. It's time to start the usual day.:thumbsup:

BB
 

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R I D E S T E E L
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646 Posts
I'm on it! I've been watching the story develop. At first, thought it wasn't going to be such a developement so quickly. Amazing.

It seems the timing is bad, but it's obviously a valid investigation, even with the newspaper's involvement. It's a big blow to cycling and the tour. I don't agree with doping at all, but sometimes a little finesse in the way these things are carried out would be a good thing.

To be honest, I have to wonder how the tour will go off and how extensive the protests will be from riders and fans.
 

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www.badgercycles.com
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309 Posts
Yea, its killing me. Sad day. I keep thinking what if some of these guys are not guilty. I'm not even going to watch it now. I mean if they doped kick em out but at least prove they are guilty first. Wow, I feel a rant coming on.
 

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Fo' Bidniz in da haus
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cant they just make dope mandatory for all riders in the tour? that would solve the problem and equalize things.
 

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Always Learning
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robpennell said:
Yea, its killing me. Sad day. I keep thinking what if some of these guys are not guilty. I'm not even going to watch it now. I mean if they doped kick em out but at least prove they are guilty first. Wow, I feel a rant coming on.
That's where the European justice system differs from the US. You are guilty until proven innocent on that side of the Atlantic. It's a far cry from our innocent until proven guilty, but the system works in a very effective manner.

BB
 

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R I D E S T E E L
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My point exactly. I felt strongly that when they started naming names, we were in trouble. They were naming names out of speculation, not proof. It still seems that the proof needs to happen yet. I do agree that doping sucks and dopers should be penalized. However, I disagree with the riders finding this out through newspaper articles before the proof has been fully developed.
 

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BruceBrown said:
That's where the European justice system differs from the US. You are guilty until proven innocent on that side of the Atlantic. It's a far cry from our innocent until proven guilty, but the system works in a very effective manner.

BB
If you really think the US is honestly innocent until proven guilty you are dreaming. To prove your innocence you have spend ten to hundreds of thousands of dollars, sacrifice a year to years of your life and will still be considered guilty by 75% of folks just because you were arrested/indicted.
 

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giddy up!
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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
sparrow said:
About time, start yanking out the cheaters from here on out. I'd look at it more as a great day for the Tour and the start of actually enforcing doping laws to make it a sport of athletes, not team doctors. Maybe 2006 is the year the Tour changes for the better. Even with so many top dogs out of the run, there will still be fine racing to be seen.
I thought we kicked out all the cheaters in the 98 tour!?

B
 

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www.badgercycles.com
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BruceBrown said:
That's where the European justice system differs from the US. You are guilty until proven innocent on that side of the Atlantic. It's a far cry from our innocent until proven guilty, but the system works in a very effective manner.

BB
Thats whats killing me here. Even if they are wrong they couldnt admit it. That would call into question every decision they have ever made unless the rider admitted it. Lets take Tyler H for an example. If it came out that the tests were wrong Tyler could bury them considering where he was at that time in his career. I smell political rats on both side of this deal.
 

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Does anyone know who released the list of names? From what I read it seems like either a newpaper released the list of names or the official investigation did. Plus, it seems like the T-Mobile people got a look at stuff that was better then the flimsy stuff about Ulrich that came out earlier.
 

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R I D E S T E E L
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646 Posts
I believe it was a Spanish newspaper. This was in one of the older CyclingNews articles:

"We cannot start any disciplinary procedure against riders or teams on the basis of a newspaper report," Carpani said.

T-Mobile did get a report. It seems they requested it a while ago, but just received it. To the credit of the investigation, they said the proof was pretty much undisputeable. (did I spell that right?)
 

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45 gone, 15 to go
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Raymo853 said:
If you really think the US is honestly innocent until proven guilty you are dreaming. To prove your innocence you have spend ten to hundreds of thousands of dollars, sacrifice a year to years of your life and will still be considered guilty by 75% of folks just because you were arrested/indicted.
It is better than most any alternative.

Name a system that is better overall.

Obviously nothing is perfect, but if you look at US historically, things are much better and more equal than they were. We are lightyears beyond some other countries.

Also, our system prefers to error on putting a guilty person on the street over keep an innocents person in jail. Obviously this is not true 100% of the time, but that is the idea of innocent until PROVEN guilty. Lawyers are provided to those that cannot afford it. And they are for the most part of the same quality of those lawyers that are prosecuting. One main problem that is hard to rectify is that the wealthier you are the "more" fair it gets.
 

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3327333
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Rockin said:
The info was finally released by the Spanish Police.
All of these men are innocent, but will be held in Guantanamo Bay just in case, until proven guilty:

http://www.velonews.com/tour2006/news/articles/10177.0.html

The following riders were named in the ongoing Operación Puerto doping case by Spanish investigators on Thursday

Astaná-Würth

Michele Scarponi (I)
Marcos Antonio Serrano (Sp)
David Etxebarria (Sp)
Joseba Beloki (Sp)
Angel Vicioso (Sp)
Isidro Nozal (Sp)
Unai Osa (Sp)
Jaksche Joorg (G)
Giampaolo Caruso (I)
CSC

Ivan Basso (I)
Caisse D'Epargne-Iles Baleares

Constantino Zaballa (Sp)
Saunier Duval

Carlos Zarate (Sp)
Ag2r

Francisco Mancebo (Sp)
T-Mobile

Jan Ullrich (G)
Oscar Sevilla (Sp)
Phonak

Jose Enrique Gutierrez (Sp)
Jose Ignacio Gutierrez (Sp)
Communidad de Valencia

Vicente Ballester (Sp)
David Bernabeu (Sp)
David Rodriguez (Sp)
Jose Adrian Bonilla (Sp)
Juan Gomis Lopez (Sp)
Eladio Jimenez Sanchez (Sp)
David Latasa (Sp)
Ruben Plaza (Sp)
Jose Luis Martinez (Sp)
Manuel Llorent (Sp)
Antonio Olmo (Sp)
David Munoz (Sp)
Javier Cherro (Sp)
Javier Pascual (Sp)former rider and now an official
Unibet.com

Carlos Garcia Quesada (Sp)
Riders retired or suspended for doping

Roberto Heras (Sp)
Angel Casero (Sp)
Santiago Perez (Sp)
Tyler Hamilton (USA)
Igor Gonzalez Galdeano (Sp)
 

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And He was Not
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FoShizzle said:
cant they just make dope mandatory for all riders in the tour? that would solve the problem and equalize things.
Great Reply :thumbsup:

That's the way they do pro sports here in the US. ;)
 

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Registered
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FoShizzle said:
cant they just make dope mandatory for all riders in the tour? that would solve the problem and equalize things.
Great idea!

Remember the Sat Nite Live "All Drug Olympics"? Funny stuff. Guy doing a clean and jerk ripped his arms out of their sockets. Blood everywhere.

The "All Drug TDF", where the cyclists ride faster than the pace motorcycles and team cars!
 
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