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Discussion Starter #1
As if I wasn't confused enough :madman:...add another one to the list - MIDDLECHILD Chromoly - RSD

More pics here - https://www.facebook.com/RSD-Bikes-299341806841706/

Head Angle - 64.5°....415-430 mm Chain Stay...which I really have no appreciation for, quite frankly.

And at $1000 CDN more than what you can get a Sarge for now...and $600 more than what you can get a FS Wildcat for now - I have no idea.

Me thinks I'll have to wait until the snow melts and try them out before I decide anything...I just have no frame of reference.
 

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Rocks belong
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This addresses the single thing I would change on my 2017 Ragley BigWig: chainstay length (currently at 435mm).

The thought of being able to slam the chainstays into the 415-420mm range sounds mighty tasty!
 

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Rocks belong
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Head Angle - 64.5°....
Keep in mind, this is a hard tail - so you can't directly compare static head tube angles to your full suspension bike.

64.5* (static) head tube angle on a hardtail will be 66* when you're sitting on the bike and riding it. So it'll feel very much like a hardtail version of the new school, long travel 29ers that are the rage right now (E29, Wreckoning, GG Smash, etc.).

And believe me - a long, low, slack, steel AM 29er hardtail is a very, very fun thing!
 

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Discussion Starter #5
64.5* (static) head tube angle on a hardtail will be 66* when you're sitting on the bike and riding it. So it'll feel very much like a hardtail version of the new school, long travel 29ers that are the rage right now (E29, Wreckoning, GG Smash, etc.).

And believe me - a long, low, slack, steel AM 29er hardtail is a very, very fun thing!
Ah...I learn something every hour!

When I compare the MiddleChild ($3,200 CDN) to RSD's own steel Big Chief 29er (25% off - $2,050 CDN now):
- Child HT slacker by 2.5*
- Child ST steeper by 2.0*
- Child 21 mm shorter ETT
- Child 20 mm shorter ChainStay
- Child 10 mm lower BB
- Child 20 mm less BB drop
- Child 30 mm LESS Stack
- Child 30 mm MORE Reach
- Child 32 mm longer WheelBase

I don't know what all those mean...but I feel smarter writing them down. ;)
 

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Remember, the BigChief is a 29+ bike, where the MiddleChild is a 27.5+ (and presumably 29er).

And, not sure I follow your listed numbers. Looking at a Size Large Child and Chief:

Large Child ETT is 42mm LONGER than the Large Chief. (642mm vs 600mm)

The Child has a massively longer reach than the Chief (good thing)
 

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That geo in titanium might convince me to buy it as a frame and move the components on my current plus hardtail over.
 

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Love the Child! I'm torn between the Guerrilla Gravity Pedalhead and the Middlechild. The GG is made here in CO, but the Child comes in significantly cheaper than a similarly built Pedalhead.
Pjames12 check out the Kingdom Vendetta X2! Titanium frame with very similar specs to the Child. Seriously stuck here... I love all three! Can't wait to pull the trigger on one of em!
 

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Love the Child! I'm torn between the Guerrilla Gravity Pedalhead and the Middlechild. The GG is made here in CO, but the Child comes in significantly cheaper than a similarly built Pedalhead.
Pjames12 check out the Kingdom Vendetta X2! Titanium frame with very similar specs to the Child. Seriously stuck here... I love all three! Can't wait to pull the trigger on one of em!
Yeah, I saw the Vendetta X2...if it could fit a 3.0 size tire and come in the polished color I'd probably buy it. Just not a fan of the raw frame color. And then the Vendetta LS is just so much pricier, and still has a max size of 2,8.
 

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I'm thinking Alex has hit a home run with the MiddleChild.
 

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Rippin da fAt
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This iteration is a take from a couple places that could be interesting on many levels.
So many + and fats were nothing more than a repurposed commuter geometry, thus a deal breaker from the word go.
The Middlechild sounds like a play time fun factory. Hmm, might need to get one out and see how trialsy it can be...
 

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Rippin da fAt
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How would this bike perform with say, 2.5" tires instead of the 2.8? I'm not a yuge fan of plus tires that big.
Um, +tires are that small and a couple choices are 3.25. Frankly, less than 2.8 is a minus tire.

I would love to take an MC out for a street session and find out what it performs like.
 

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Minus tires are where it's at for me.

Was just looking at the geometry and seeing that the BB height is already pretty low at 320 mm. My Bronson is 340mm, which I thought was already fairly low. Might be kind of dicey to put smaller tires on this thing, which, unfortunately, kind of rules it out for me.
 

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Rippin da fAt
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As for performance with 2.5's, keep in mind, there are some that are heavier than my 4.8's which is wholly unacceptable. With the BB already at a low position smaller tires may be outta the question.
 

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Ride On
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Minus tires are where it's at for me.

Was just looking at the geometry and seeing that the BB height is already pretty low at 320 mm. My Bronson is 340mm, which I thought was already fairly low. Might be kind of dicey to put smaller tires on this thing, which, unfortunately, kind of rules it out for me.
You can’t compare the B.B. height of a hardtail and full sus. Dynamic changes in fork length will lower the B.B. of a hardtail much less than dynamic changes in both the rear shock and fork of a full sus. 320 is actually quite tall compared to a lot of bikes like this. Run with a 130 fork it’s more than 15mm higher than a Whyte 905 for example.
 

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You can’t compare the B.B. height of a hardtail and full sus. Dynamic changes in fork length will lower the B.B. of a hardtail much less than dynamic changes in both the rear shock and fork of a full sus. 320 is actually quite tall compared to a lot of bikes like this. Run with a 130 fork it’s more than 15mm higher than a Whyte 905 for example.
Hmm. Food for thought. 15mm ought to be enough to compensate for the difference between a 2.8 and a 2.5, no?

Honestly the bigger problem is explaining to the wife why yet another bike appeared in the garage...
 

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I have one of those wives that never notices that kind of stuff. If she does it’s too late anyways. ;) I was suggesting the 130 fork on the MC just to directly compare against the Whyte as it is specified with a 130 as well. At 140 the MC is 320 with 27.5+ supposedly. B.B. height is pretty personal The only way I could confirm it for my use is to test. For me with a 165 crank I’m happy at 310 for a 120 hardtail.
 

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Rippin da fAt
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Hmm. Food for thought. 15mm ought to be enough to compensate for the difference between a 2.8 and a 2.5, no?

Honestly the bigger problem is explaining to the wife why yet another bike appeared in the garage...
Simple answer, they are breeding! Or the it just followed me home...
 
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