REVIEWS DEALS BIKESHOPS TRAILS

RP3 or DHX 5.0 and Talas RLC or Vanilla RLC

1324 Views 35 Replies 9 Participants Last post by Ventanarama, Dec 14, 2005

JeffSkisMontana

Discussion Starter · Nov 28, 2005

Getting ready to order a 2006 MotoLite through my LBS. Wondering what your thoughts are on shock and fork selection. Seems that most of the newer builds I have seen on this site are Fox RP3 and Talas RLC. Have been considering either the Vanilla R or DHX 5.0 for the shock and the Vanilla RLC for the fork, both being coil based. Thanks for the help.

1 - 20 of 36 Posts

rzozaya1969

· #2 · Nov 28, 2005

Well, I don't know about the Vanilla since I haven't ridden one. But I think that one of the reason where the Fox Talas (or RS Pike or Revelation) fits right on the Moto Lite is that you can adjust rear travel from 4" to 5". Well, at least, that was my reasoning to get the Talas R (I didn't had the $$$ for the RLC).

But I don't think it's a must to have variable travel, it just depend on your riding style, I think.

EndUser

· #3 · Nov 30, 2005

IMO the RP3 and the Vanilla RLC are great for the ML

JeffSkisMontana said:
Getting ready to order a 2006 MotoLite through my LBS. Wondering what your thoughts are on shock and fork selection. Seems that most of the newer builds I have seen on this site are Fox RP3 and Talas RLC. Have been considering either the Vanilla R or DHX 5.0 for the shock and the Vanilla RLC for the fork, both being coil based. Thanks for the help.

Stock RP3 and Vanilla RLC fork are great products and this is what I put on my ML. I'm begining to so sound like a broken record on this, but I've owned a Talas and two Vanillas and the Vanilla's hands down beat a non-PUSHED Talas in performance and plushness any day of the week (a PUSH'd Talas is some serious $$). No amount of travel adjustment (and the weight savings is marginal at best) can make up for the Talas' lack of on the trail performance. The stock Talas is crap compared to the stock Vanilla... just no comparison... too much fork dive, packs up badly, and the progression ramps up at the end of the stroke giving it a typical air fork harshness. I took the extra money I saved on the Vanilla RLC and put it into a set of very light and trick King ISO wheel set. A fast, light, durable wheelset does more for the ML's climbing prowess than a travel adjustment fork anyday... the bike simply does not need it. The geometry of this bike is nearly perfect at 120 mm and there is really no need to adjust fork travel. Custom build some fork spacers and set a stock Vanilla RLC 130 to 120 mm, get the right spring in it and just ride.

What ever the fork and shock you decide on, you will love the ML. Congrats on the purchase and post some pic's when it's done.

Regards,

EndUser

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zorg

· #4 · Nov 30, 2005

EndUser said:
Stock RP3 and Vanilla RLC fork are great products and this is what I put on my ML. I'm begining to so sound like a broken record on this, but I've owned a Talas and two Vanillas and the Vanilla's hands down beat a non-PUSHED Talas in performance and plushness any day of the week (a PUSH'd Talas is some serious $$). No amount of travel adjustment (and the weight savings is marginal at best) can make up for the Talas' lack of on the trail performance. The stock Talas is crap compared to the stock Vanilla... just no comparison... too much fork dive, packs up badly, and the progression ramps up at the end of the stroke giving it a typical air fork harshness. I took the extra money I saved on the Vanilla RLC and put it into a set of very light and trick King ISO wheel set. A fast, light, durable wheelset does more for the ML's climbing prowess than a travel adjustment fork anyday... the bike simply does not need it. The geometry of this bike is nearly perfect at 120 mm and there is really no need to adjust fork travel. Custom build some fork spacers and set a stock Vanilla RLC 130 to 120 mm, get the right spring in it and just ride.

What ever the fork and shock you decide on, you will love the ML. Congrats on the purchase and post some pic's when it's done.

Regards,

EndUser

Just to confuse the heck out of you, I'd say go for the Talas. Now, I've ridden a Vanilla just once for a couple hours, so I can't make a judgement on how it feels, although I'm willing to believe that it feels better than an air fork. It's just that I like to be able to dial the travel on the fork. I'm not the best of climber, but when it becomes really steep, I always dial down the travel to 85mm. I just find that on steep climbs, even at 120mm, the front will wander a bit. I imagine that it'd be true of any bike though. I'm not the most technical guy either.

Basically, I think that it's a compromise: feel vs. adjustability. It's up to you.

EndUser

· #5 · Nov 30, 2005

Agreed

This really comes down to personal needs and this is what's great about the ML. With an adjustable travel fork or not, one can configure the bike for their specific needs and this versatility is a great selling point for Titus because it's not a bunch of BS. I say to those interested in a ML if you are an accomplished climber an adjustable travel fork on this bike is not necessary.

What I find so increadible about the ML is that the geometry is so well refined that not having an adjustable travel fork is not a disadvantage. I ask myself "would I get an adjustable travel Vanilla if Fox offered one?" and knowing what I now know about my ML and my riding style I would not get one if it cost a penny more.

For anyone who cares, I did set my ML up for better climbing using 120 mm of travel up front. I opted for the Med not the large frame as I was in between sizes, put on a longer stem (110mm; 5d rise), put on a low riser HB, under-sprung the fork and put a straight seatpost. This configuration perhaps puts a little more weight on the front wheel when climbing but it still feels very neutral and plush. This configuration is very active and stable and climbs with about the same amount of steering effort as my race HT, BUT with out all the monkey motion and body english and weight shifting needed on a HT while climb steep technical trails. To be honest I didn't believe technical climbing could be made easier (don't confuse this with faster) on a long travel FS bike with a 69d HTA... this bike is simply amazing.

Regards,

EndUser

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The Squeaky Wheel

· #6 · Nov 30, 2005

I'm a believer in matching front & rear suspension.

Fox air shocks match well with Fox air forks.
Fox coil shocks match well with Fox coil forks.
I have never liked the way mixing Fox air & coil suspension has felt.

So you need to decide whether you value the weight of the air stuff versus the performance of the coils. And if you get the RP3 then I HIGHLY recommend you have it custom tuned by PUSH www.pushindustries.com

But let me complicate things a bit more for you. The new Rock Shox forks are killer and are my recommendation up front. Take a good look at either the RS Revelation (standard drop outs) or the Pike (thru-axle). I'm currently running a Pike coil and it's fantastic. I've ridden the Pike air and it's the best feeling air shock I've ever felt and weighs only a quarter pound more than the TALAS but will require a thru-axle hub which adds considerable stiffness to the package. The Revelation stuff feels like a less stiff version with a bit less travel.

G'luck.

blackagness

· #7 · Dec 1, 2005

I'm running an RP3 with a fox Talas RLC, and I'm constantly adjusting the travel. Not that I need to I guess I just do it cause I can.Generally I knock her down to 120mm for fast single track and 130mm or so for steep DH, but I alsoe leave it at 130mm on fast single track and she stll handles great. I have an 05 Talas and I agree that a vannila prob feels better, but I love my Talas and it dosn't dive "at all". I've been thinking alot about going to a coil shock and mabye a Pike one day. This bike has just made me such a better high speed tech/lowe speed tech rider, it just makes me want to push it more and more... Love it!

One thing I notice about my ML is how much a part of you it feels, I truly feel like I can do anything I want to do with this bike.

dulyebr

· #8 · Dec 1, 2005

The Squeaky Wheel said:
I'm currently running a Pike coil and it's fantastic. I've ridden the Pike air and it's the best feeling air shock I've ever felt and weighs only a quarter pound more than the TALAS but will require a thru-axle hub which adds considerable stiffness to the package. The Revelation stuff feels like a less stiff version with a bit less travel.

G'luck.

Squeak, how does the Pike compare to the Push'd '05 Talas you used to ride on your HH?

The Squeaky Wheel

· #9 · Dec 1, 2005

dulyebr said:
Squeak, how does the Pike compare to the Push'd '05 Talas you used to ride on your HH?

I much prefer the coil Pike to the TALAS. But it's not really fair to compare a coil thru-axle fork to a QR air fork. Pike on a HH is overkill but would be quite suitable on a ML in 5" mode.

dulyebr

· #10 · Dec 1, 2005

sorry, I meant the Pike air vs. Talas.

haven't seen any thru-axle forks on the Moto-lite yet; other than the one on the old Titus website which showed a c/o shock and a Pike.

The Squeaky Wheel

· #11 · Dec 1, 2005

dulyebr said:
sorry, I meant the Pike air vs. Talas.

haven't seen any thru-axle forks on the Moto-lite yet; other than the one on the old Titus website which showed a c/o shock and a Pike.

The answer is still Pike.

dulyebr

· #12 · Dec 1, 2005

Really? That's disappointing. One of the reasons I ended up buying a Talas and then sending to Push was the glowing reviews about yours...

The Squeaky Wheel

· #13 · Dec 1, 2005

dulyebr said:
Really? That's disappointing. One of the reasons I ended up buying a Talas and then sending to Push was the glowing reviews about yours...

Don't be disappointed.
The PUSH'd TALAS is killer and when I wrote my review the Pike was not available. Plus, I'm no longer riding the Hammerhead 100 and and ride a 6" travel dual coil sprung bike as my everyday bike so opinions are slanted in that direction. I guess the MotoLite fits somewhere in between.

There are two reasons I prefer the Pike air:
1. the negative spring which allows for more intricate tuning
2. the maxle - of course this requires a 20mm thru-axle hub and the desire to have something that stiff up front.

Differences between the PUSH'd TALAS & Pike air aren't that pronounced once you remove the maxle because PUSH does a killer job with their piston & shimming. The cream of the crop will be the Rock Shox PUSH mods which will be released in the spring.

Homebrew

· #14 · Dec 1, 2005

The Squeaky Wheel said:
The cream of the crop will be the Rock Shox PUSH mods which will be released in the spring.

Hmmm, I betcha Squeak's Pike isn't stock.

In addition, the Pike longer travel (and longer axel-to-crown) makes it a bit of an unfair comparison. The Revelation is much more comparable to the TALAS. I have no complaints with my Push TALAS but I bet a Push Revelation Air U-turn would be quite the ride.

The Squeaky Wheel

· #15 · Dec 1, 2005

Homebrew said:
Hmmm, I betcha Squeak's Pike isn't stock. In addition, the Pike longer travel (and longer axel-to-crown) makes it a bit of an unfair comparison. The Revelation is much more comparable to the TALAS. I have no complaints with my Push TALAS but I bet a Push Revelation Air U-turn would be quite the ride.

Correct and agreed

JeffSkisMontana

Discussion Starter · #16 · Dec 2, 2005

Thanks very much for your advice.....so give me what you would

go with, Fork and shock combination. I am no longer only considering Fox products based on the replies that have been written. Thx

p.s. The 2006 frame arrived at my LBS, going to see it tomorrow afternoon....can't wait.

zorg

· #17 · Dec 2, 2005

JeffSkisMontana said:
go with, Fork and shock combination. I am no longer only considering Fox products based on the replies that have been written. Thx

p.s. The 2006 frame arrived at my LBS, going to see it tomorrow afternoon....can't wait.

One quick thing to be aware of: on the Rockshox Revelation (and I believe the Pike, not sure though), it takes more turns to adjust the travel than on the Talas (something like 6 turns vs. 3). It makes a difference to me since I'm always dialing the fork up and down.

dulyebr

· #18 · Dec 2, 2005

Quote from R.C. of Mountain Bike Action Mag

Q. I am considering building up a custom Titus Moto-Lite. If I put a 5 inch fork on it (the website says it can take up to 6), I reckon the head angle will come out at 69.5 degrees. Which fork do you recommend? My first choice would be a Minute 4 or Talas 130 RLC. I want a good pedaling fork that also irons out small bumps well.
[email protected] - 11/17/2005 11:55:11 AM

A. Mine has a Talas RLC--I love it. R

http://www.mbaction.com/qanda.asp?curpage=4

Homebrew

· #19 · Dec 2, 2005

JeffSkisMontana said:
go with, Fork and shock combination. I am no longer only considering Fox products based on the replies that have been written. Thx

p.s. The 2006 frame arrived at my LBS, going to see it tomorrow afternoon....can't wait.

Based on my experience with the stock 04 TALAS and the 05 Reba, I would think the Revelation would ride better out of the box. Since the Push option will be available for both early next year, that's a wash. I would give the RS a wirl.

I don't change mine all the way up to all the way down. I keep it in the middle around 105-110mm. So any changes are less than a turn. Also, the TALAS adjuster is on the left side which makes it kinda awkward to do quickly anyway. The knob on the RS forks is on the right side and I find it easier to turn.

BTW, RC and the rest of MBA aren't exactly unbiased. You have to take everything with a grain of salt.

The Squeaky Wheel

· #20 · Dec 2, 2005

U-turn knob on Pike & Revelation is on the left like the TALAS. The right side has the MC cartridge.
I don't know about Reba.

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