Two things can be problems at the same time.
"rogue" trails, a problem for Colorado Springs-area land managers
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false dichotomy. these two things are not mutually exclusive
Because e bikes ride these illegal trails too. Don't stick your head in the sand. Motors, regardless of how they deliver power, or how low power they are, change the game in the minds of other user groups. Whether you accept this or not, it's a fact.
Clunky and heavy? I guess they don't have horses in Colorado. I live in a National forest and build trails without permission. I've found anyone who works for .gov to be the laziest people ever. They're non aproachable and sit on their A. They're not real people and not productive to society. We build them and then they just call the "user generated" trail. It's been that way throughout human history. The PCT runs through my backyard. It was orginally the trail the Indians used to migrate from the mountains to the desert. The forest service doesn't do squat to maintain it, nor do horse people or hikers. Us mountain bikers pick up their trash and cut back the brush...and we ride the crap out of it in exchange.
Local land managers: "we know they're out there (ebikes) riding trails that aren't open to them. So far, it hasn't created any problems".
Also local land managers: "(rogue) trails can destroy wildlife habitats, disrupt wildlife migration corridors, harm fragile or rare plants, spread noxious and invasive weeds, cause soil loss, impact water quality and create safety and liability concerns."
But yeah, lets keep pointing those fingers at ebikers as a risk to future trail access.
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Also local land managers: "(rogue) trails can destroy wildlife habitats, disrupt wildlife migration corridors, harm fragile or rare plants, spread noxious and invasive weeds, cause soil loss, impact water quality and create safety and liability concerns."
But yeah, lets keep pointing those fingers at ebikers as a risk to future trail access.
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In a parallel universe, animals are creating game trails without permission, unchecked. I ride those too. Thanks coyotes, bear and deer.Local land managers: "we know they're out there (ebikes) riding trails that aren't open to them. So far, it hasn't created any problems".
Also local land managers: "(rogue) trails can destroy wildlife habitats, disrupt wildlife migration corridors, harm fragile or rare plants, spread noxious and invasive weeds, cause soil loss, impact water quality and create safety and liability concerns."
But yeah, lets keep pointing those fingers at ebikers as a risk to future trail access.
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As an cross country coach I am always amazed at how difficult it is to actually use a park. From the astronomical fees they charge the school to use the park ($3500 for our local park), to requiring we not use the trash cans and bathrooms (despite the site rental fee) to charging parents $10 to come into the park (it is normally $2) it is crazy. And on top of this they do NO work on the trails. We have to come out and maintain everything. It has gotten so bad that they made another school pack out all garbage and when they took recycling (donated proceeds to the local shelter) they fined them for "stealing." The park system makes it so difficult to use sadly no one holds any meets there any more.Clunky and heavy? I guess they don't have horses in Colorado. I live in a National forest and build trails without permission. I've found anyone who works for .gov to be the laziest people ever. They're non aproachable and sit on their A. They're not real people and not productive to society. We build them and then they just call the "user generated" trail. It's been that way throughout human history. The PCT runs through my backyard. It was orginally the trail the Indians used to migrate from the mountains to the desert. The forest service doesn't do squat to maintain it, nor do horse people or hikers. Us mountain bikers pick up their trash and cut back the brush...and we ride the crap out of it in exchange.
Horses absolutely destroy the trails and in general have the attitude that they need to be yielded to in every regard. While they are a small in number what they have going for them is that they are the one complaining to local government at things like city and county board meetings. They may not bring in money to the economy but they are donating to the campaigns of those who sit on the Board. If MTB really wants to get things done we need to begin to lobby the decision makers.
They're two different problems, and you're an exceptionally good troll for trying to combine them into one.But yeah, lets keep pointing those fingers at ebikers as a risk to future trail access.
or notyou're an exceptionally good troll for trying to combine them into one.
Today's bikes "can do a huge amount of damage in a short amount of time on highly erosive soils,"....
This has been used as a go-to to anyone that wants to ban bikes, regardless of the power delivery method. There is little evidence that bikes can and do cause damage to erosive soils or otherwise. The true danger to all soils is mother nature and the topography. I've personally seen the kind of "damage" bikes have done over many decades on a certain trail system vs. what a 10-15 minute downpour did. It would be nice to hear what "huge amount of damage" actually looks like.
This has been used as a go-to to anyone that wants to ban bikes, regardless of the power delivery method. There is little evidence that bikes can and do cause damage to erosive soils or otherwise. The true danger to all soils is mother nature and the topography. I've personally seen the kind of "damage" bikes have done over many decades on a certain trail system vs. what a 10-15 minute downpour did. It would be nice to hear what "huge amount of damage" actually looks like.
I consider myself an ambassador to the sport. I yield to everyone and step to the side of the trail. I always get flak from horse people. No matter how polite I am. I can only take so much then the smartmouth comes out. I tell them to get off their high horse then ask the horse, "Why the long face?" I'd post more of what I say but it's rated G here.As an cross country coach I am always amazed at how difficult it is to actually use a park. From the astronomical fees they charge the school to use the park ($3500 for our local park), to requiring we not use the trash cans and bathrooms (despite the site rental fee) to charging parents $10 to come into the park (it is normally $2) it is crazy. And on top of this they do NO work on the trails. We have to come out and maintain everything. It has gotten so bad that they made another school pack out all garbage and when they took recycling (donated proceeds to the local shelter) they fined them for "stealing." The park system makes it so difficult to use sadly no one holds any meets there any more.
Horses absolutely destroy the trails and in general have the attitude that they need to be yielded to in every regard. While they are a small in number what they have going for them is that they are the one complaining to local government at things like city and county board meetings. They may not bring in money to the economy but they are donating to the campaigns of those who sit on the Board. If MTB really wants to get things done we need to begin to lobby the decision makers.
I found that to be a really odd statement coming from the head of the local mountain bike advocacy group. Cory is a sharp guy. I would have expected him to be more measured with the press on this kind of thing. It kind of makes me wonder if the author of the article took it out of context, or printed something that was said in confidence.Today's bikes "can do a huge amount of damage in a short amount of time on highly erosive soils,"....
This has been used as a go-to to anyone that wants to ban bikes, regardless of the power delivery method. There is little evidence that bikes can and do cause damage to erosive soils or otherwise. The true danger to all soils is mother nature and the topography. I've personally seen the kind of "damage" bikes have done over many decades on a certain trail system vs. what a 10-15 minute downpour did. It would be nice to hear what "huge amount of damage" actually looks like.
All this stuff about treating national forest land like some sort of nature preserve, jumping through untold hoops to develop trails is just getting out of hand imho. It's clearly nothing but a roadblock to prevent any further development of trails. Tiny trail that almost nobody knows about? Oh no, we need to do decades of environmental impact studies. Huge logging road punched through untouched land to clear-cut trees? No problem.
Maybe MTB guys just need to form a timber company, and apply for permits to "selectively harvest" some trees...leaving some kick ass trails on the land when they're done.
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Equestrians are the worst. E-mtbs second worst.
nice straw man btw
nice straw man btw
Volunteer built singletrack is bad and must be shut down (which spawns a new "damaging" trail since the need is still present) but spending millions of dollars hiring businesses from other cities to literally bulldoze the forest and dump non-native dirt all over it is good.
It's not corrupt at all, I bet there isn't a single lobbyist from environmental or construction businesses influencing their choice in denying volunteer built trails.
It's not corrupt at all, I bet there isn't a single lobbyist from environmental or construction businesses influencing their choice in denying volunteer built trails.
Not sure the meaning of this. I would suspect that the vast majority of specially created Mt. bike trails are cut and maintained by volunteers. Certainly all the 200 or so miles of trails here on Long Island are all volunteer built trails. Maintained as well. There's zero possibility that any of the assorted park agencies, local or federal could have created what or maintained what we have available to us.Volunteer built singletrack is bad and must be shut down (which spawns a new "damaging" trail since the need is still present) but spending millions of dollars hiring businesses from other cities to literally bulldoze the forest and dump non-native dirt all over it is good.
I recently stopped by the hills I started riding in as a teen in the mid 80's. I tried to go through the red tape back then to cut trail. Nope. What I saw broke my heart. McMansions and roads are now in those hills.
I like going in and building 'rogue' trails in these sorts of places after harvesting.Maybe MTB guys just need to form a timber company, and apply for permits to "selectively harvest" some trees...leaving some kick ass trails on the land when they're done.
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Usually lots of 'debris' left afterward that can be moved around a bit and spruced up into features and whatnot.
East coast tends to have to deal with a lot less government BS than out west, figure it has to do with the Feds owning a lot of the land there as well as what seems to be a much higher tendency for local agencies to micro-manage. Almost everything in New England is volunteer built and maintained, aside from VT since they've got people trying to turn riding into $$$.Not sure the meaning of this. I would suspect that the vast majority of specially created Mt. bike trails are cut and maintained by volunteers. Certainly all the 200 or so miles of trails here on Long Island are all volunteer built trails. Maintained as well. There's zero possibility that any of the assorted park agencies, local or federal could have created what or maintained what we have available to us.
Don't know about less BS. It took years for the management of a local State Park to get on board with the idea of marking a huge network of existing trails. Even now, they need to walk every foot and do an remarkable amount of paperwork to get new stuff approved. Nothing is easy or quick. The town's and counties here are just as restrictive and part of the problem its not just the Fed's, it's this huge Hodge podge of jurisdictions to deal with, all with different requirements.East coast tends to have to deal with a lot less government BS than out west, figure it has to do with the Feds owning a lot of the land there as well as what seems to be a much higher tendency for local agencies to micro-manage. Almost everything in New England is volunteer built and maintained, aside from VT since they've got people trying to turn riding into $$$.
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