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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
My sincerest appologies as I misreported a key fact on the negative spring/ bottom out adjustment on the Roco R Air.

I thought I had understood the tech's explanation and rode the shock in Moab with conflicting results. The shock was smooth but was no where near full stroke, even on some drops on Porcupine. The high speed sharp impacts were also a bit harsher than I would like. Got back and called Marzocchi again and my previous explanation was completely backwards from how the adjustment actually works. :rolleyes:

Here is the real dirt: Drop all the air pressure out of the shock. Unscrew the collar at the bottom of the shock body. Compress the shock to its shortest length and screw the collar back on for max negative spring and minimum bottom out resistance (this creates a "suction" that wants to pull the shock into its travel). Screw the collar back on at maximum shock extension for minimum negative spring and max bottom out resistance (this is where I had the shock set in Moab). Anywhere inbetween gets you varying degrees of negative spring/ bottom out resistance.

This is definantly the way the adjustment is supposed to work as I just reset it at max shock compression and there is now a "suction" pulling the shock into its travel. I had to put 120psi in before the shock extended to maximum length (this is the extreme end of the adjustment range). I had to go a bit higher on the shock pressure to get 30% sag and the shock feels much smoother in its initial stroke. More info when I have some ride time. Again, very sorry for any confusion.
 

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Cool.

Mine's still stock setting but I think I prefer it this way :D

Life is good at 125 psi compared to 170 psi on RP23 :thumbsup:

The 06 DHX 5 Coil was better than my RP23 easily... but the opinion I am forming is that the 07 Roco Air is just as good as DHX C or possibly better. At the moment I like it better but more extensive testing is required :D.

The adjustment seems pretty cool. Many people with RP23 on trail bikes are buying HV sleeves in mad rushes... but if you can adjust by unscrewing and adjusting the stroke where you want it that's Zoke Stoke.

Interested in what effect this will have in real life testing.

Do you unscrew it and adjust while it's mounted in the frame ?~?

for $137 this shock is bonzer :cool:
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
All Mountain said:
Cool.

Mine's still stock setting but I think I prefer it this way :D

Life is good at 125 psi compared to 170 psi on RP23 :thumbsup:

The 06 DHX 5 Coil was better than my RP23 easily... but the opinion I am forming is that the 07 Roco Air is just as good as DHX C or possibly better. At the moment I like it better but more extensive testing is required :D.

The adjustment seems pretty cool. Many people with RP23 on trail bikes are buying HV sleeves in mad rushes... but if you can adjust by unscrewing and adjusting the stroke where you want it that's Zoke Stoke.

Interested in what effect this will have in real life testing.

Do you unscrew it and adjust while it's mounted in the frame ?~? for $137 this shock is bonzer :cool:
Yes, you can do this with the shock in the frame. I just dropped all but 10psi so I could compress the shock all the way and screwed the collar back on. To get it to break loose you can use a tube between your hand and the collar to get some extra grip.
 

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Boyeeee
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I just did this "mod" on mine tonight. I have some interference problems with the Roco Air on my Blur 4x and have to have the shock off the bike to air it up. I found that releasing the air and removing the valve core made it easier for me to compress the shock by hand on my workbench and tighten the collar.

After the adjustment, I had to add 15psi to the shock to get the right amount of sag.

For the record, on a Blur 4x with a 185lb rider (no gear, jeans and a t-shirt), 130psi gets the prescribed 10mm of sag. I figure adding my gear will get me another 1-2mm of sag.
 

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Nice!

titusquasi said:
My sincerest appologies as I misreported a key fact on the negative spring/ bottom out adjustment on the Roco R Air.

I thought I had understood the tech's explanation and rode the shock in Moab with conflicting results. The shock was smooth but was no where near full stroke, even on some drops on Porcupine. The high speed sharp impacts were also a bit harsher than I would like. Got back and called Marzocchi again and my previous explanation was completely backwards from how the adjustment actually works. :rolleyes:

Here is the real dirt: Drop all the air pressure out of the shock. Unscrew the collar at the bottom of the shock body. Compress the shock to its shortest length and screw the collar back on for max negative spring and minimum bottom out resistance (this creates a "suction" that wants to pull the shock into its travel). Screw the collar back on at maximum shock extension for minimum negative spring and max bottom out resistance (this is where I had the shock set in Moab). Anywhere inbetween gets you varying degrees of negative spring/ bottom out resistance.

This is definantly the way the adjustment is supposed to work as I just reset it at max shock compression and there is now a "suction" pulling the shock into its travel. I had to put 120psi in before the shock extended to maximum length (this is the extreme end of the adjustment range). I had to go a bit higher on the shock pressure to get 30% sag and the shock feels much smoother in its initial stroke. More info when I have some ride time. Again, very sorry for any confusion.
Wow, that is pretty trick! I just put the Roco on my bike, and it feels pretty good, but I would have never known anything about the positive/negative adjustment had I not read your message. I'm definately going to play around with that feature. It seems that quite a few more riders are finally getting their hands on this shock, and giving some good feedback about it. Thanks for posting some great info!
 

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Thanks a lot for the information.

I have bought the Roco as a replacement, while I got my Vanilla RC pushed.

After having tried diferent settings according to the info you have provided, the Roco feels definately better than the Vanilla RC before. :thumbsup:

However, the Roco can not compete with the pushed Vanilla RC, but taking the price into consideration, Roco is the way to go.

p.s. Bike is a 2005 Heckler, mostly used for touring (Alp X) and trailriding
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I want to love this shock but can't...yet. I can not get the Roco Air to use full travel to save my life. I've run it on the MotoLite and the QuasiMoto (3:1 leverage in rocker position that generates more leverage at the end of the stroke) and can't get more than 1 5/8" out of the 2" stroke with 30% sag. If I drop the sag to 50% I can get 1 13/16" or 1 7/8" but NEVER the full 2". These numbers are off a 4' drop intentionally landing hard on the saddle.

The negative spring/ bottom out adjustment I detailed earlier is working as the shock pulls into its travel as I release the air pressure toward zero (set at max negative spring/ min bottom resistance) and it is noticeably smoother off the top of its stroke. And if I drop the pressure really low (i.e. 10psi) I can easily press the shock to hit bottom and reach 2" of stroke. But with an air pressure in it that creates a reasonable amount of sag I can get nowhere near full travel.

Does anyone have any ideas. I called Marzocchi again and it sounds like the guys here in the US don't know much about this shock yet (the first guy I spoke with didn't even know about the negative spring adjustment). Could the oil be filled too high? Could there be some bumper inside? Has anyone pulled one of these apart yet?

I'm pulling my hair out as this thing is so close to being perfect it's not even funny. :madman: :madman: :madman: :madman: :madman: Using only 1 5/8" out of the 2" of stroke with the bottom resistance at minumium with 30% sag is not acceptable. Something still isn't quite right. I guess I'll call Marzy again and beat the bush some more.
 

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titusquasi said:
Does anyone have any ideas.

I'm pulling my hair out as this thing is so close to being perfect it's not even funny. :madman: :madman: :madman: :madman: :madman: Using only 1 5/8" out of the 2" of stroke with the bottom resistance at minumium with 30% sag is not acceptable. Something still isn't quite right. I guess I'll call Marzy again and beat the bush some more.
Maybe Darren at PUSH has some insights on the ROCO...maybe call them up.

I'm sure they'd love to field another question about the ROCO. :D
 

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titusquasi said:
I want to love this shock but can't...yet. I can not get the Roco Air to use full travel to save my life. I've run it on the MotoLite and the QuasiMoto (3:1 leverage in rocker position that generates more leverage at the end of the stroke) and can't get more than 1 5/8" out of the 2" stroke with 30% sag. If I drop the sag to 50% I can get 1 13/16" or 1 7/8" but NEVER the full 2". These numbers are off a 4' drop intentionally landing hard on the saddle.

The negative spring/ bottom out adjustment I detailed earlier is working as the shock pulls into its travel as I release the air pressure toward zero (set at max negative spring/ min bottom resistance) and it is noticeably smoother off the top of its stroke. And if I drop the pressure really low (i.e. 10psi) I can easily press the shock to hit bottom and reach 2" of stroke. But with an air pressure in it that creates a reasonable amount of sag I can get nowhere near full travel.

Does anyone have any ideas. I called Marzocchi again and it sounds like the guys here in the US don't know much about this shock yet (the first guy I spoke with didn't even know about the negative spring adjustment). Could the oil be filled too high? Could there be some bumper inside? Has anyone pulled one of these apart yet?

I'm pulling my hair out as this thing is so close to being perfect it's not even funny. :madman: :madman: :madman: :madman: :madman: Using only 1 5/8" out of the 2" of stroke with the bottom resistance at minumium with 30% sag is not acceptable. Something still isn't quite right. I guess I'll call Marzy again and beat the bush some more.
It could be worse. I would rather have a shock not bottom out than have one that bottoms not matter what.

I think you may be onto something with the oil level. Marzocchi tends to just pour whatever the hell they want into their stuff. How hard is it to use a measuring cup guys?:confused:
 

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titusquasi said:
I want to love this shock but can't...yet. I can not get the Roco Air to use full travel to save my life. I've run it on the MotoLite and the QuasiMoto (3:1 leverage in rocker position that generates more leverage at the end of the stroke) and can't get more than 1 5/8" out of the 2" stroke with 30% sag. If I drop the sag to 50% I can get 1 13/16" or 1 7/8" but NEVER the full 2". These numbers are off a 4' drop intentionally landing hard on the saddle.

The negative spring/ bottom out adjustment I detailed earlier is working as the shock pulls into its travel as I release the air pressure toward zero (set at max negative spring/ min bottom resistance) and it is noticeably smoother off the top of its stroke. And if I drop the pressure really low (i.e. 10psi) I can easily press the shock to hit bottom and reach 2" of stroke. But with an air pressure in it that creates a reasonable amount of sag I can get nowhere near full travel.

Does anyone have any ideas. I called Marzocchi again and it sounds like the guys here in the US don't know much about this shock yet (the first guy I spoke with didn't even know about the negative spring adjustment). Could the oil be filled too high? Could there be some bumper inside? Has anyone pulled one of these apart yet?

I'm pulling my hair out as this thing is so close to being perfect it's not even funny. :madman: :madman: :madman: :madman: :madman: Using only 1 5/8" out of the 2" of stroke with the bottom resistance at minumium with 30% sag is not acceptable. Something still isn't quite right. I guess I'll call Marzy again and beat the bush some more.
Interesting observations. I notice a similar pattern with my shock and frame. The frame has a rising rate (ventana x-5) which gives the observed behavior when coupled with the roco r. I get about 1.6" off of a 4' to flat when I have sag set to about 23-25%. I did set the negative spring as you described. It allowed me to put about 5psi more into the main chamber and have a ride more in line with what I want. I am loving the shock, but the inability to get the full 2in stroke out of it is somewhat troubling. I am going to keep riding it, but will keep ears peeled to see what the guys at PUSH come out with;)
 

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I have better results...

I set my sag to 28% and on a trail ride I used 43mm of travel. This is stock BO configuration. I rode the same trail twice and got the same result. Interestingly it felt like it had as much suspension as the DHX C and the RP23. The RP23 never agreed with me though.... it got sold a while back.

In the other extreme BO configuration I did the ride once (same trail) and used 46mm of travel with same sag. For comparison, when I rode the RP23 with normal sleeve at 28% sag I would use 44mm of travel. When I used the extra high volume can on RP23 it bottomed.

I am happy enough with this air plunger to put my DHX C into exile or a new owner. I like the fact it does not bottom easily.
 

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dscot420 said:
Interesting observations. I notice a similar pattern with my shock and frame. The frame has a rising rate (ventana x-5) which gives the observed behavior when coupled with the roco r. I get about 1.6" off of a 4' to flat when I have sag set to about 23-25%. I did set the negative spring as you described. It allowed me to put about 5psi more into the main chamber and have a ride more in line with what I want. I am loving the shock, but the inability to get the full 2in stroke out of it is somewhat troubling. I am going to keep riding it, but will keep ears peeled to see what the guys at PUSH come out with;)
Same here. http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=297374&highlight=?+roco

ROCO air turned my 4" bike into 3". PUSH Float shock is back on my Tracer and ROCO air has become a backup as I originally intended. But I want it to be the primary...

Darren. When is the PUSH mod coming out for ROCO air shock? Are you hearing us? This shock could be the bomb w/ PUSH magic!
 

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titusquasi said:
I want to love this shock but can't...yet. I can not get the Roco Air to use full travel to save my life. I've run it on the MotoLite and the QuasiMoto (3:1 leverage in rocker position that generates more leverage at the end of the stroke) and can't get more than 1 5/8" out of the 2" stroke with 30% sag. If I drop the sag to 50% I can get 1 13/16" or 1 7/8" but NEVER the full 2". These numbers are off a 4' drop intentionally landing hard on the saddle.

The negative spring/ bottom out adjustment I detailed earlier is working as the shock pulls into its travel as I release the air pressure toward zero (set at max negative spring/ min bottom resistance) and it is noticeably smoother off the top of its stroke. And if I drop the pressure really low (i.e. 10psi) I can easily press the shock to hit bottom and reach 2" of stroke. But with an air pressure in it that creates a reasonable amount of sag I can get nowhere near full travel.

Does anyone have any ideas. I called Marzocchi again and it sounds like the guys here in the US don't know much about this shock yet (the first guy I spoke with didn't even know about the negative spring adjustment). Could the oil be filled too high? Could there be some bumper inside? Has anyone pulled one of these apart yet?

I'm pulling my hair out as this thing is so close to being perfect it's not even funny. :madman: :madman: :madman: :madman: :madman: Using only 1 5/8" out of the 2" of stroke with the bottom resistance at minumium with 30% sag is not acceptable. Something still isn't quite right. I guess I'll call Marzy again and beat the bush some more.
But how does it feel? If it feels like it is bottoming out but still not getting full travel, that is one thing. But if it still feels great, is it really a problem?
 

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The Rocco Air is definitely built to take some abuse. 4' to flat is not very big in the world of abusive riding. Try 15 or 20' to a crummy tranny.

I think Marz was really trying to make sure they released an air shock that:
A. Rode high in it's travel
B. Does not bottom out easily

As these are some of the most common complaints of the Fox Air Shocks.
 

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Sorry guys, not to be an arse... but is it too hard to undo the air canister and see what does it use as a bottom-out bumper?

All shocks have one. And it all sounds as the Roco having a soft thick elastomer bottom out like a coil shock. Maybe that's why a big guy like AM is nearly bottoming and STH is not near full travel.

Oil level is not a factor. In a shock, you have proper oil level or otherwise the shock cavitates for the lack of oil. There's no such thing as an excessive oil level, unless the IFP would be improperly positioned, but sounds unlikely.
 
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