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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'm about the buy some 2014 Rock Shox SID XX solo air forks, but they come with a XLoc remote and I would prefer to not have the clutter of the remote. Is it possible to have this removed, and if so how difficult is the process i.e. Will I need to send the forks away?
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
That would be awesome if that's the case. I assume this would also mean that the lockout isn't usable? If they do come with the lever/cable installed, is it easy to just take it off if I don't want the lockout function? Will this cause any issues?
 

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The Xloc is hydraulic: it simply pushes a piston inside the compression damper, like a hydraulic brake. When the piston is pushed in, the compression damper is "off", when the piston is pushed out, the compression damper is "on/damping". An internal spring pushes the piston out.

If you remove the remote, or if it loses fluid (such as in a crash when the hose gets ripped off), the piston is fully extended and the damper has maximum low speed compression damping and significant high speed compression damping (the damper has a springy blowoff system).

So basically, you need the remote attached and bled properly to use the fork. If you don't want to use the Xloc remote, you'll have to buy another damper such as the RCT3 damper, which uses a crown mounted adjuster.

Of course, you can buy a new SID with the RCT3 damper instead of the XX damper. Or, you can just buy the compression damper itself from a SRAM dealer and swap it out. This is more expensive though as you'll have this extra damper sitting around.

If you have to swap out the damper, you can probably do this yourself as its pretty simple. You just have to remove the banjo by removing the very thin helical retaining ring (like a thin keyring) that holds the banjo on. Use a very small flat screwdriver to pry the end up and then follow it around until it's fully removed. Pull off the banjo and then use a 24 mm socket to unscrew the damper. Alternatively, you can use a big adjustable wrench and leave the banjo on and just spin it around.

Then pull it out of the upper tube and let remaining oil drip off back into the tube. Check oil volumes from SRAM for your new damper and add/remove oil as necessary. Might be worth just changing all your oil at this point. Make sure you use the correct weight of suspension oil.

Then all you have to do is screw the new damper in!



I'm a singlespeeder, and I really like the XX damper with Xloc. However, I don't have any shifters so I can put the (righthand) Xloc on the left side under the bar like a left shifter. Its a very nice position. The damper itself is quite nice when the remote is bled properly, which isn't necessarily the case from the factory. Improperly bled remotes don't have enough fluid in them, so the damper has more compression damping in both settings (locked and unlocked) than would be desired. When bleeding, it is important the have the "GATE" collar on the Xloc unscrewed all the way, so that there is maximum volume in the system. You then screw it in after the system is sealed up to reduce compression damping to suit your weight.

You can check to see if your Xloc system needs a bleed by unscrewing the collar all the way, then pulling outwards on the button when its in the out position. If it comes out more than a few mm and then goes back in again, you need to bleed.

I attached a photo of the damper as it is on my bike.
 

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Sell the Xloc damper and buy an RCT3 damper. The RCT3 is a much better damper in every way other than having no remote lockout. You should be able to sell your Xloc damper for at least as much as a new RCT3 damper. They are a straight swap that will take you 5 minute if you have a 24mm open ended spanner. I started with an XX SID but couldn't get it to perform as I liked, switched to an RLT damper which was an improvement over the XX damper and finally moved to an RCT3 damper which is great.
 

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Tigworld, did you ever bleed your Xloc properly? Damper still wasn't up to your standards?

Mine came badly bled and harsh, but once I bled it I got the damping that I wanted. Really like the remote lockout's ease of use while riding and the soft compression lockout.
 

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Tigworld, did you ever bleed your Xloc properly? Damper still wasn't up to your standards?
Yeah. My damper was properly bled. For the "top level damper" it is a remarkably primitive design, essentially being a port orifice compression damper. All the comp damping is done by the tapered "poppet" valve in the bottom centre of the damper. There is no differentiation between HSC and LSC so comp damping is all mixed in together based on where you have the gold adjuster set (ie. where the poppet is in relation to the orifice in the bottom of the damper tube) and how much the damper tube compresses based on the oil flow. To prevent the fork from spiking and deflecting off high spec comp events you've got to run the xloc fully open and would all the way (-), but then the fork had no LSC which made it wallow badly and dive under brakes. Adding in LSC by winding the Xloc more to the (+) would improve the wallow/brake dive issue but would also ramp up the HSC and make the fork spike badly. It is possible to arrive at a workable setting but that exact point would change from ride to ride.

If you get a chance, try an RCT3 damper. I got one with a spare fork and after I tried it on my main fork I sold all of my other dampers and use the RCT3 on all my forks. It is particularly tunable for lighter riders, so even my daughter uses one on her Anthem X with 120mm SID.
 

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Yeah. My damper was properly bled. For the "top level damper" it is a remarkably primitive design, essentially being a port orifice compression damper. All the comp damping is done by the tapered "poppet" valve in the bottom centre of the damper. There is no differentiation between HSC and LSC so comp damping is all mixed in together based on where you have the gold adjuster set (ie. where the poppet is in relation to the orifice in the bottom of the damper tube) and how much the damper tube compresses based on the oil flow. To prevent the fork from spiking and deflecting off high spec comp events you've got to run the xloc fully open and would all the way (-), but then the fork had no LSC which made it wallow badly and dive under brakes. Adding in LSC by winding the Xloc more to the (+) would improve the wallow/brake dive issue but would also ramp up the HSC and make the fork spike badly. It is possible to arrive at a workable setting but that exact point would change from ride to ride.

If you get a chance, try an RCT3 damper. I got one with a spare fork and after I tried it on my main fork I sold all of my other dampers and use the RCT3 on all my forks. It is particularly tunable for lighter riders, so even my daughter uses one on her Anthem X with 120mm SID.
Exactly my experience with the XX damper as well.
 

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Yeah, thats certainly the way this damper is. XX is top level but not necessarily "top performance" but instead "lowest weight". Another example of this is how the XX RD doesn't have Type 2. In this case they're expecting better performance because of the weight and the lockout in light of a damping compromise.

Wallowy indeed, but that's why there's a remote in the first place. And I don't think you'll get a lighter remote system than this one really, until electronics get refined a couple times and the battery is shared between the shifting and suspension. I wonder what the damper + xloc + hose weight is compared to the RCT3 and RLT + poploc.

I do wish the brake dive was better but I can't say I really mind it.


I do wanna get an RCT3 anyway to experiment with electronic actuation and control, but that's for another day.
 

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Huckin' trails
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Just read up on the dampers here and I'm also looking to get a SID fork in 120mm, straight 1 1/8 steerer and 15mm axle. So far I think the 2014 SID RCT3 would be the best, but I'm not sure which MC damper would fit my needs better.

I want : a lockout (remote would be a plus), external rebound adjust and external compression adjust.

This is to go on a trail/XC rig with lots of climbing and gnarly downhills, with low mileage (I'm lucky if I get to ride more than once a week on that bike) and for a lightweight rider (less than 120lbs).

The RCT3 was the cheapest, lightest and seems to have everything but a remote lockout. What's the difference with the RLT beside the cable-actuated remote and does the remote is just on/off or actually goes from lockout to fast compression ?

Thanks !
 

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RCT3 is the best performing and newest damper for the SID. RLT is just more simple. It doesn't always include a remote, some of them are crown adjuster like the RCT3. You have to order the remote version.
Read SID RLT | SRAM to get a grip on the different dampers.
 

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Go the RCT3 especially if its the cheapest. You won't need a lockout on a 120mm fork unless you are racing on a hardtail. At 120lbs I'd also try to get a 2012 dual air SID. You may have trouble getting the solo air SIDs to perform optimally for your weight. Lighter riders often need a slightly higher amount in the neg air piston to get the initial action super plush. You can't really do this on the solo airs.
 

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Huckin' trails
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So I should get a dual air and upgrade the right side damper to rct3 ? I would like a lockout since I'm gonna do a fair bit of pavement during biking events and also to get to the trails. I've found a nice white one, but I have to say the all black 2014 version is very sexy too.

Here it is : http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=380886041900&globalID=EBAY-US
 

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It really depends how particular you are with your suspension and whether you are trying to eek out the last few seconds per lap on the race course. Most people are fine with pretty much any SID fork, RL, XX, RLT, RC3, dual air, solo air etc. None of them are crap. If colour is an issue then just go with what looks best - it'll look good no matter how fast or slow you are going.

If you are after the optimum current off-the-shelf setup then:
- get the cheapest dual air 120mm SID you can find;
- strip it and rebuild it with the proper quantities of oil, seals packed with silicone grease, mobil 1 in the lowers for splash lube (these forks come pretty dry from the factory);
- add a RCT3 damper
- setup the fork with 25-30% sag with you in the attack position
- start with rebound in fastest position and keep adding rebound damping until the fork starts to knife into sharp corners, back off rebound 2-3 clicks;
- start with comp in full (-) pos and start adding in comp damping until fork starts to feel spikey on roots, back off comp damping 2-3 clicks;
- ride the crap out of it.

If at any point you run out of clicker adjustment then you will need to look at revalving to get the adjusters back within a range that will work for you.
 

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Yeah, what those guys said. I took the XX damper out of my WC Revelation as soon as I got it. The XX is great for those people who start their suspension conversation with 'I want a remote' but not for people who want the most adjustment to get the fork dialed the way they want it.

Go RCT3.

mk
 

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Thanks for the great tips. I'm nowhere near racing, it's really just recreational riding, but since I live to play with bike stuff I would be sad to buy a brand new SID and not have much bells and whistles to fiddle with haha.

So I'm still a bit confused here, please pardon me. If I understand right, any SID fork from 2008 and newer will take the MC DNA RCT3 damper on the right leg and will use either a single or dual air chamber system on the left leg ? Also I can mix and match any uppers and lowers from 2008 till now, as long as they are made for the 120mm version ?

Basically, the white SID in the link I posted above, which is a SID RLT Ti dual air 120mm, I could dump in a Mission Control DNA RCT3 damper in instead of the RLT damper and be fine with it ? What does the current RLT damper offers me in term of user interface ? Where I ride, I get a mix of long climbs over mostly gravel, hardpack and roots, which isn't very difficult for a fork, but when I go down, it's gnarly rock gardens, high speed impacts on roots, drops and mainly high speed hits on baby head rocks. I want something platform style for those climb that I can open up for the downs but still without loosing a feel good damping.

Color and weight are both a concern, I'd like to keep it under 1500g if possible and either all white, all black or that sweet SID blue color that we used to see a few years ago on the SID forks (I think 2010 ?)
 

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The following applies to SIDs with 32mm stanchions:

- lowers are all interchangeable between all 32mm SIDs.
- 120mm SIDs have different uppers and internals to 100mm SIDs. Dampers (rebound and comp) are NOT interchangeable.
- Solo air and dual air have different uppers, they are not interchangeable as the solo air has a dimple in the inside of the air piston leg that allows pos/neg piston equalisation at full extension.
- solo air and dual air dampers are interchangeable (but only between 120mm and 120mm or 100mm and 100mm NOT 120mm to 100mm).

So:

I can mix and match any uppers and lowers from 2008 till now, as long as they are made for the 120mm version ?
Yes


...a SID RLT Ti dual air 120mm, I could dump in a Mission Control DNA RCT3 damper in instead of the RLT damper and be fine with it ?
Yes

What does the current RLT damper offers me in term of user interface ?
It will do what you want. Lockout for the climbs with as much threshold/platform to the lockout as you want. Full open for the descents. BUT you have no intermediate compression settings (ie. you have full comp or full open).

NOTE: you can (and should) double check all and any of this using the SRAM parts manuals from the SRAM website. There is no excuse for relying on someone else's dribblings on an internet site. Do yourself and favour and go the authoritative source and cross check the part numbers.
 

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Thanks very much for the info, this is extremely helpful :thumbsup:
 

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Just a bump to this thread. Was very unhappy with my XX 120 performance, particularly trying to adjust it for the best of both worlds in terms of high speed and low speed compression. I finally said screw it and installed an RCT3 damper and got rid of the remote lockout. The swap took about 20 minutes and that was with a fluid change. After 2 rides, I don't even know why RS would put the XX damper in anything. The 2 are not even on the same playing field in terms of adjustability. No more 'riding the knife edge' of sensitivity between riding, and now I'm actually getting full usable travel, which was something I was not achieving with the old damper. It's a completely new fork!
 
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