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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Hi
Its now built :)
pictures enclosed
but its not working!:madman:

Build:
RIP 9 2011 XL in Raw
Fox Talas
RP23
Stans Flow
Hope Pro 2 15 mm QR Front Hope QR rear
Nobbly Nicks with tubeless
Rockshok Reverb
Easton EC 70 690mm bars (4 week wait for Haven)
FM-XTR
RM - XTR
Cassette - Durace 11 - 25
Chain set - XTR Triple
Brakes/Shifter - XTR Duel Control
Saddle - Fizik Arione Carbon

Just been out for first test ride and I have two problems!

1. Brakes -Very poor performance.I have a rigid 29er with Avid mechanical discs and they are much better.The XTR have been bled had new pads and 180 rotors!

2. Chain suck with pressure on the pedals in any ring and any gear.

The brakes ,shifters,mechs and chainset were transfered from my old bike.
None of the components are worn

Help please.

Brakes - I appreciate the XTR are a race ,lightweight brake.What should i replace them with remembering that if I replace the brakes I then need to replace the shifters.
Do I then replace the mechs,chainset etc .........

I have a little bit of money left but not enough to go full XTR 980 group set!:D.

Any suggestions on brakes,gears 2 x 10,2 x 9,3 x 9 which ones?

I just want ,what will be a brilliant bike, to work well.

It so fast down hill I just need it to stop and keep in the same gear going up hill:cool:

Thanks for reading
Steve
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
Sorry - I uploaded the photos - Anyone know where they have gone?

Can anyone help - dont know where the photos have gone!

Hi
Its now built :)
pictures enclosed
but its not working!:madman:

Build:
RIP 9 2011 XL in Raw
Fox Talas
RP23
Stans Flow
Hope Pro 2 15 mm QR Front Hope QR rear
Nobbly Nicks with tubeless
Rockshok Reverb
Easton EC 70 690mm bars (4 week wait for Haven)
FM-XTR
RM - XTR
Cassette - Durace 11 - 25
Chain set - XTR Triple
Brakes/Shifter - XTR Duel Control
Saddle - Fizik Arione Carbon

Just been out for first test ride and I have two problems!

1. Brakes -Very poor performance.I have a rigid 29er with Avid mechanical discs and they are much better.The XTR have been bled had new pads and 180 rotors!

2. Chain suck with pressure on the pedals in any ring and any gear.

The brakes ,shifters,mechs and chainset were transfered from my old bike.
None of the components are worn

Help please.

Brakes - I appreciate the XTR are a race ,lightweight brake.What should i replace them with remembering that if I replace the brakes I then need to replace the shifters.
Do I then replace the mechs,chainset etc .........

I have a little bit of money left but not enough to go full XTR 980 group set!:D.

Any suggestions on brakes,gears 2 x 10,2 x 9,3 x 9 which ones?

I just want ,what will be a brilliant bike, to work well.

It so fast down hill I just need it to stop and keep in the same gear going up hill:cool:

Thanks for reading
Steve
 

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Carbon & Ti rule
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5,410 Posts
Hi

Ditch the tripple ring setup on the front,I had the same problem with my XTR cranks but when I put a 40 tooth outer ring on it fixed it but I also found that with the 32 middle ring I got so much chain slap down hill that I just used to keep it in the big ring all the time.

I played with so many rings before the 2x10 came out & found that a 36 tooth moddle ring got ride of most of the chain slap down hill so going for the 26/39 was a great upgrade for me.

They are a great bike so hang in there when you get it right it will blow your mind how good it is.
 

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That's no joke muzzanic! I have a 3x9 set up on mine. I never use the big ring though. Gonna put my 2x on as soon as i get the chance i think. Have never had any chain suck problems though. Without a doubt the bike WILL blow your mind. I have never been more dialed into a bike. The R.I.P. rules!
 

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I agree with the above statements. I have a 2010 RIP and just converted to a 2x9. In my op thats the only way to go on a RIP. I went with Blackspire Pro 24 granny and a 34 middle. Then a Purely Custom bash guard. Love the set up. For me the 34 was the right gear. Had 1 chain suck, but all my fault. Tried to change gear to granny at the last minute. For brakes I have Hope Tech x2. Love them. But everyone has the own op on brakes. Cant help ya there but the chain rings 2x9 or 2x10 is the best way to go!!!
 

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A few people on this forum recommended and I just switched to the 9 spd SLX 2 ring set up with 22 and 36 tooth rings and bashguard. There is a matching SLX front derailleur optimised for the 2 ring set up. I haven't had a chance to ride it offroad yet, but it feels good and changes good up and down the local streets.

I have some older M965 XTR brakes on my Air 9 and they work fine. The pads may need more bedding in or maybe a different compound pad will help. I have only used mine with 160mm and 180mm Shimano Centrelock rotors and they work well.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Photos Uploaded

Have managed to upload a couple of photos:)

Thanks for feedback so far ref chain suck

Looks like 2 rings are the way to go.

Please keep the advice coming

Thanks:thumbsup:

Steve
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Problem Solved on chain suck

Just been out for a two hour blast.

Thought I would put the old chain on to see if it had any effect on my chin suck problem.

Result - Perfect changes and no chain suck:)

Just goes to show - old rings in great condition - new chain - chin suck

Same rings and old chain perfect - Great news

But not the best news - This bike is awesome :thumbsup:

I now have a bike that fits my body!

I have just cleaned my local circuit - never done that before even on my rigid 29er

It goes down hill so fast and so confident - you point it and it goes - brilliant

It climbs - a little getting used too as I have a 26 max sprocket on the back and you have to get out the saddle at times but with 20lbs pressure and ease back on the power stroke it just climbs.

Can you tell how impressed I am - cannot think of anything it does not do,even the brakes are getting better.

But not good enough so I think I will change to Avid Juicy 7s and XTR 9 speed shifters jus hope i still have room for the reverb button close to the grips.

Cannot sing the reverbs praises highly enough 10/10

Enough for now

Thanks to all who have given advice:thumbsup:

Very happy Steve
 

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Laker and a Trail Blazer
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831 Posts
I know precisely wow you feel! I'm about to do this weird June rain ride, but 80% is rocks so all good.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Size

It is the biggest they make.
Compaired to my old Cannondale it feels soo.... much bigger:thumbsup:
I am still playing with stem and bar height but thats the height I need the saddle to ride on the flat and uphill.
For the tricky downhill just press the button!!:)
Must admit I dont like the look of the spacers.
Cheers
Steve
 

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slx double saved mine

The slx double with matching slx front derailer rules. Stiff, light and perfect gearing.

Tire Wheel Bicycle frame Bicycle wheel Bicycle tire
 

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Underskilled
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Glad you like it Steve.

The best pads I have used are the superstar sintered, BIG jump in performance for my old XT brake of stock.

Do not have any power problems with my Formula the Ones though. They even have more braking power than you need when just using the backing plate (not recommended due to disk damage).

That does look like a lot of stem and spacers, but suppose my Dorado lifts the front of the bike more, so this compensates.

Once you learn how to ride with the bike it will only get faster!
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Thanks Peter

Thanks Peter
Will check out the pads
Do you mean that the stem should be shorter and I should cut the steerer tube?
Bit reluctant to do this as will be selling Fork in Sept when 140 comes out.

Thanks tmccrohon

Not sure what you are talking about could you please give a little more detail?

Now that the XTR triple is working perfectly what would be the benifit in going to a 2 x 9?

Thanks

Steve
 

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Do you mean that the stem should be shorter and I should cut the steerer tube?
Bit reluctant to do this as will be selling Fork in Sept when 140 comes out.

Now that the XTR triple is working perfectly what would be the benifit in going to a 2 x 9?
Don't worry about the amount of spacers under your stem just yet. Even with the stems and the riser bar, your bars are certainly below saddle height in the picture thanks to that little rear tire rack it is sitting on.:D Without the rack, I'm guessing your bars are pretty close to even with the saddle height. That's a good starting point to begin experimenting with bar height and position.

Although the XL RIP has a longer head tube than some bikes at 145mm (5.7"), it still is a tad short for some tall riders who would like to get the bars just slightly below the saddle height or even with the saddle. Specialized has the HT at 150mm (5.9") in the size XL and 160mm (6.3") in size XXL for their 29"er FSR frames. I know I would personally be happy with a HT of 160mm or so for my XL RIP and JET, but I make the 145mm work. Nobody complains in the smaller sizes if the bars are even with the saddle height, but if you post up pictures of an XL with bars that are even with the saddle height (which usually takes some spacers, stem rise, or riser bars - or any combination of the three), somebody will always post up a "too many spacers" comment. That always leads to a great thread on head tube length/height for tall riders here.

You certainly can experiment without cutting your steerer tube yet, by moving a spacer or two from below your stem to on top of your stem and see how that feels for some rides. Take your time getting it dialed in with the stem length and bar height. If it is too high, you'll have control issues on steep climbs keeping that front wheel down and pointed forward on the narrow singletrack. That's when you know you might need a bit lower stack of spacers (or in my case, I needed a longer stem as well). I think it took me about a year or so on both my JET and my RIP to really dial in the best height and bar position that I liked on these bikes after trying out a lot of things - all of them good, I just took that long to fine tune the set up. So you've got plenty of fun riding time coming up to get all of that figured out no matter how many spacers or what height your bar is in relation to your saddle.

If your current triple XTR is working and you like the gearing, there probably is not really any benefit switching to a 2 x 9 if your chain is not currently getting "stuck". I would go with a mountain gearing cassette though, either 11-32, 11-34 or 11-36 depending on your rings up front.

I run a triple on my RIP and use all 3 chainrings on my rides. There is a thread devoted to "chain stuck/suck" issues and the RIP worth reading for reference here. The benefit of converting your triple to a 2 x 9 (not really a dedicated 2 x 9 when you drop your outer ring as the rings are still sitting in the 3 x 9 position) comes into play here if the "chain stuck" is happening and you want to try and remove that from the equation of possibly happening. A dedicated 2 x 9 or 10 has a different chainline than the converted triple to a double and is much better for shifting and cross gearing. So when you say 2 x 9 - they are not all the same in terms of chainline. And you can get similar gearing in a 2 x 9 or 2 x 10 to your triple set up, but you might lose a gear ratio or two on the top end and bottom end compared to your current XTR triple depending on ring size and the cassette cog sizes you choose. But that's not a bad thing if you aren't using your large ring small cog combo, or using your granny ring and large cog combo very often (but I'm speaking about a 11-32, or 11-34 cassette - not the road cassette you are running because I know you use the small grann ring/large combo a lot with that cassette).

Other benefits? Some drop the outer ring on a triple and install a bash ring instead. Again, not the best chainline for a 2 x 9 when compared to a dedicated 2 x drivetrain where the rings sit in a different position than a triple, but it's cheaper than getting an entirely new system and the addition of a bash may be considered a benefit for those who need one. But if you like a triple and want/need a bash ring - there are bash ring products for the outer ring so you can run three rings and a bash. So I wouldn't say dropping the outer ring in favor of a bash is actually a huge benefit (unless the chain stuck issue cannot be ironed out), as the Tooth Fairy from Salsa and other outer ring guards are available for those in need of a bash for a triple.

If your triple is working and you use all three chainrings - why sweat it? If it's not broken, why fix it - right? I use a triple on my RIP, but the rings are smaller - 23T Rotor Q ring granny/30T middle/40T outer with a 11-34 rear XTR cassette.

Nice looking bike and enjoy!

BB
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Bruce - What can I say!

Thanks Bruce

The length,depth and knowledge of your reply has blown me away! :thumbsup:

Its awsome - It would be so easy to leave a couple of lines but you understand that I am not up to speed on the technicalities of a full suspension bike!:confused:

You are right - I will not do anything in the form of cutting untill I have had more time on the bike in different riding conditions.

However I do fancy a FSA OS99 CSI stem-We have a few on e bay here in the UK at a great price but they are 90mm?.

I guess that would make it easier to handle on steep uphills but reduce my control on the downhills?

I am running an 11-26 Durace cassette (cos I have 3 all the same and dont want to fork out for an XTR) and a 22/32/44 on the front.

I did not use the big ring on my home patch on Sunday and climbed all the hills I would normally do on my old 1 x 9 rigid

However the hills are sharp rather than long.

I think once again more riding in different conditions before I make a decision

However as the XTR brakes are not as good as my avid mechanicalI I am watching some Avid Jucy 7s and a pair of XTR 9 speed shifters on e bay UK

Only down side to this change is that it may move my reverb button further from the grips!

Remember I have dual control at the moment.

Once again

Thanks Bruce for your interest in a struggling stranger,its respected:)

Steve
 

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However I do fancy a FSA OS99 CSI stem-We have a few on e bay here in the UK at a great price but they are 90mm?.

I guess that would make it easier to handle on steep uphills but reduce my control on the downhills?
My experience is that it would be the opposite. You'd gain control on the downhills with a short stem such as a 90mm (short for us tall folks, that is), but lose control on the climbs with the short stem as the shorter stem would pull the front wheel off of the ground quicker than a longer stem. Getting the right balance where you can go up and down in the most comfortable manner is what you want to find. Your sweet spot so to speak in stem length. I've never gone shorter than a 90mm with my experiments, but use 120mm on my Dos Niner XL, 130mm on my Karate Monkey XL, 110mm on my RIP flipped negative, 105mm on my JET flipped negative. My bars are typically 640-660mm in width, so if going with even wider bars (700mm+), I know many have posted they prefer a shorter stem with that wide of a bar. I've never tried a bar that wide so have no idea how it would translate to my riding.

The good news is that stems can be found cheap (you can even borrow a few from your LBS) to try out and not be out a lot of cash.

I am running an 11-26 Durace cassette (cos I have 3 all the same and dont want to fork out for an XTR) and a 22/32/44 on the front.

I did not use the big ring on my home patch on Sunday and climbed all the hills I would normally do on my old 1 x 9 rigid

However the hills are sharp rather than long.

I think once again more riding in different conditions before I make a decision
I hear you on the cost of a new cassette. XTR is not cheap, but certainly the lower priced Shimano and SRAM cassettes are not cost prohibitive. Weight Weenies run Dura Ace road cassettes to save weight and your 22 granny/26T rear cog combo is about the same as my 27T granny/34T rear cog combo on my 2 x 9 race bikes (JET and Dos Niner). So that's not a bad thing at all as I can climb anything in that combo, but on training rides or long, slow endurance rides that gets a bit tall if I'm not wanting tear my muscles down. But it sounds like your riding includes a lot of short steeps and not long grinds - so you're fine. The 11-32 SRAM xg-999 9 speed weight weenie cassette is what I have my eye on for the RIP, but it isn't cheap. At least not as cheap as the XTR's I search for on bargains via eBay.

Bottom line - your combo of a triple up front with the Dura Ace 11-26 gives you about the same granny gears as a 27T granny ring found on many 2 x 9 set ups. So that's fine. And you're weight weenie to boot with that set up. My only concern is that even though swapping back to your old chain temporarily ended your chainstuck issues, on the RIP - I always fear the clearance issues of a 44T big ring and the chainstay yoke where the chain (especially why in the smaller rings up front) can bounce up when the suspension gets active and get stuck between your big ring and the chainstay like this....

WideYokeChainStuck

YokeIssues

WideYokeRIP

Others, in that RIP clearance issue thread I linked in my previous post, have had success with a smaller large ring (say 40T or 42T).

However as the XTR brakes are not as good as my avid mechanicalI I am watching some Avid Jucy 7s and a pair of XTR 9 speed shifters on e bay UK

Only down side to this change is that it may move my reverb button further from the grips!

Remember I have dual control at the moment.

Once again

Thanks Bruce for your interest in a struggling stranger,its respected:)

Steve
You're not struggling, you're doing just fine. Talking shop with other RIP (or any bike) owners here is what the forums are all about.

BB
 

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As an FYI for the chain suck/stuck issue...I had some problems with the 44t big ring so I switched to an old Race Face Turbine crank (square taper 94bcd 5 arm) and went with 20/30/40 rings. As far as bottom bracket spindle length goes I had a 113mm shimano and a 119+5 Phil Wood. I played with the Phil wood and didn't like that I was close to the 114mm length, had a lot of thread sticking out on the non drive side of the bb shell in order to get good shifting with my XT front deraileur. SO I put in the shimano 113 and so far in a bunch of rides I have had 2 incidences of chain suck. One in my driveway fooling around after installing the shimano bb. And the second in the parking lot after a ride fooling around with the suspension. I have yet to have it on a ride. In the thread that Bruce posted you can see a cheap "fix" to help prevent the issue with zip ties. I have yet to put zip ties on but the smaller ring most definitely cuts most chain suck issues out.
 

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Hey BB - Ive been curious about the chainline issue with 3x9's converted to 2x9's. im using the SLX triple crankset with the large ring replaced with a bash. Is there a way to shift the chainline over, or is it not that much of an issue? I dont really have shifting problems, just sometimes when im in either end of the cassette i get minor issues, not often though.
 
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