[sawhite]

I've been observing this forum for a while as I ease my way into the SS world. I've pretty much decided, after a handful of rides on one, that the GF Rig is the ride for me. I'm a 29er fan anyway - owing mostly to spending about half of my time in the dirt on a cross bike - so that aspect of a SS isn't really negotiable.

Anything about the rig that should make me reconsider?

If I have a couple hundred extra $, what should I think about upgading, if anything (the Bontrager Select stuff seems a bit portly, but also pretty bomber)?

Thanks for any input!

S

 

[DSR]

I don't think there are any FATAL flaws - at least that have showed up yet. (Weren't there some other GF 29ers though that had some breakage problems?)

If you're weight conscious, I'd say it's probably good to go and a good value given that the Reba retails for $400+ alone. If you want to save more weight and are used to the rigidness from cross, then you might want to sell the Reba and pick up a rigid for it. Lots of good custom rigid 29er forks out there - Walt, Wily, Vicious, etc.

My only issues with the Rig are... 1) aluminum (I prefer steel) and 2) no rear der hanger (why not throw one on since you already have the EBB?). It looks like they bumped the BB heights up, so that doesn't seem to be as much of any issue. Genesis geometry is also subjective. Mostly though I just wish they made it a little more utilitarian a la the KM.

Anyway, those are a few thoughts. Don't know on the Bonty parts. S

 

[Nat]

I don't think there are any FATAL flaws - at least that have showed up yet. (Weren't there some other GF 29ers though that had some breakage problems?)

If you're weight conscious, I'd say it's probably good to go and a good value given that the Reba retails for $400+ alone. If you want to save more weight and are used to the rigidness from cross, then you might want to sell the Reba and pick up a rigid for it. Lots of good custom rigid 29er forks out there - Walt, Wily, Vicious, etc.

My only issues with the Rig are... 1) aluminum (I prefer steel) and 2) no rear der hanger (why not throw one on since you already have the EBB?). It looks like they bumped the BB heights up, so that doesn't seem to be as much of any issue. Genesis geometry is also subjective. Mostly though I just wish they made it a little more utilitarian a la the KM.

Anyway, those are a few thoughts. Don't know on the Bonty parts. S

I'm glad they didn't make it utilitarian like the KM. It's a dedicated SS bike. My opinion.

As for fatal flaws, there were a bunch of people (myself included) who had headset issues. The stock HS was a cheap hunk of junk that looked more appropriate for a Wal-Mart bike. If they haven't changed the spec already, then you'll want to upgrade before you even take the bike home.

 

[Cloxxki]

Welcome, sawhite to the MTBR forums!

I think there's an old thread somewhere on how to upgrade (lighten) a Rig for cheap. Some smart keywords in the search functions should bring up something useful. Do cross-link here when you find it, if you will.

If your riding style asks for stout parts, the Bontrager stuff will suit you fine. But with some smart shopping, you can really save serious weight and add necessary bling. start by throwing on your favorite seat from your other bike
Small, seemingly unimportant parts such as grips, tubes, rimstips, can provide actually noticable weight loss for the total price of a simple diner for two, at McDonald's.

And indeed, get a cartridge bearing headset and be done with it. They could have used a fancy one, but then the bike would have costs $1009 instead of $999.

Good luck!

 

[shiggy]

...My only issues with the Rig are...2) no rear der hanger (why not throw one on since you already have the EBB?)...

Because it is a dedicated singlespeed frame. If you want gears buy a Paragon or X-Caliber.

As a complete SS the Rig is a great deal.

 

[yz400e]

I was on here looking for information on EBB's and noticed this thread. I have had my Rig for a month. I train on it and race it.

My Rig is an XL. If you are actually tall, (6'4") the bike is vertically challenged. I had to buy the bike sight unseen and based on the geometry numbers I thought it would fit me better. I had always been told Fisher bikes fit tall people (cuz Gary himself is tall) but that must have been before Trek took over. The head tube could easily be an inch taller as well as the standover height. I have to run 2" of spacers plus the stock stem plust the 1" riser bar. As for the stock seat post..I'm glad it came with a 410mm otherwise I would have had to buy a new one. Since they did include a 410mm post, I'm thinking they (Trek) knew the frame was on the short side.

I like the genesis geometry; lots of room to move around. which is good cuz sweepers at speed need you to shift forward.

Headset: wouldn't stay tight. had a Race Face SL lying around and it works much better. If you don't care about weight though, the FSA PIG would be a good choice. I can still feel 'play' in the front at low speed manuevers.. I think that is now due to all the extra spacers.

Frame: love the aluminum; I weigh 180 and the bike doesn't feel harsh to me.

EBB: throw it out and get a decent one. In fact, order one before you order your bike and have it switched out in the shop., what a piece of crap. too bad the phil wood style won't work on this frame. Could probably drop 1/2 a pound and not have to deal with the hassles. The phil wood won't work as it uses set screws and the frame isn't drilld and tapped. I have been told the one Salsa sells / makes is good. I wanted to find more info on that.

Avid Disk brakes: This is my first experience with disks and I think they could have saved weight and money by spec'ing good rim brakes. with the money they saved they could have put a decent EBB in the bike. This is a SS bike...the speeds this thing attains (unless you are magnus backstad and can push a 42;12) you don't need disks.

Rock Shox Reba: If I can ever get it dialed in, I think it will be a pretty sweet fork. Probably never be as good as a WB but it is only $400.

Saddle: not too bad. my butt must have been getting tired of the Selle Italia Fleet Gel cuz it is happy with this one.

 

[Padre]

Avid Disk brakes: This is my first experience with disks and I think they could have saved weight and money by spec'ing good rim brakes. with the money they saved they could have put a decent EBB in the bike. This is a SS bike...the speeds this thing attains (unless you are magnus backstad and can push a 42;12) you don't need disks.

Rock Shox Reba: If I can ever get it dialed in, I think it will be a pretty sweet fork. Probably never be as good as a WB but it is only $400.

Wow, you must be new around here....to be playing so freely with praise for rim brakes.
Let's not forget that "good rim-brakes" is an oxymoron...so spec'ing them on any bike is not only a bad idea as far as braking is concerned, but won't hardly save any worthwhile weight. I'd rather have a crappy EBB and disc brakes than a sweet EBB but have low-down, no-good, yellow-bellied, good-for-nothin' rim brakes...

Another reason why you must be new around here...(not that there's anything wrong with that)...saying that SS bikes don't get going fast...that notion will get shot down right quick 'round these parts....

Round 3...A Reba will never be as good as a WB? I'm guessing you've had no time on a Reba yet...and have you had time on really good forks? Any WB I've had (3) pale in comparison (as far as quality/plush travel goes) to any Marz or RS I've had..even my Judy. The WB is stiff, yes. The WB is light, yes. The WB is a 29er fork, yes. But, the WB travel is a tad archaic. It does go up and down, but it does not do so with the same velvety goodness that a sweet Marz does..not even close.

The Reba is in the ballpark...heck..might even be on the infield....

(disclaimer: this retort of mine might have seemed like a rant...it could have been..but perhaps I've saved someone from using rim brakes? If so....it will have all been worth it.... )

 

[sawhite]

Thanks!

Welcome, sawhite to the MTBR forums!

I think there's an old thread somewhere on how to upgrade (lighten) a Rig for cheap. Some smart keywords in the search functions should bring up something useful. Do cross-link here when you find it, if you will.

If your riding style asks for stout parts, the Bontrager stuff will suit you fine. But with some smart shopping, you can really save serious weight and add necessary bling. start by throwing on your favorite seat from your other bike
Small, seemingly unimportant parts such as grips, tubes, rimstips, can provide actually noticable weight loss for the total price of a simple diner for two, at McDonald's.

And indeed, get a cartridge bearing headset and be done with it. They could have used a fancy one, but then the bike would have costs $1009 instead of $999.

Good luck!

Thanks for the reply - and advice.

I'm not generally hard on gear, so I'm sure I could do with less bullet-proof components - bars, stem, post, and certainly that P.O.S. saddle will not even make it past the shop door.

I did a pretty extensive search on rig, upgrade, parts and a few other seemingly obvious keywords, but haven't found a thread specific to the Rig or a SS. I'll keep poking around, but someone else finds it, please let me know.

RE: the EBB. On the bike I had for a couple of days it seemed fine (and I've ridden good tandems for many years). Granted, it's not light, but it appears to be up to the job.

I'm looking forward to taking part in the discussion here once my thumb stops automaticaly reaching for the STI lever when the trail starts heading upwards. If humans were meant to ride a SS we wouldn't have been given thumbs, or something like that...

Regards,

Scott

 

[Nat]

This is a SS bike...the speeds this thing attains (unless you are magnus backstad and can push a 42;12) you don't need disks.

Yow bud, speak for yourself.

 

[~martini~]

Indeed. I love my discs. No fade like I got on V's. And I am a slow mofo too.

 

[quaffimodo]

Avid Disk brakes: This is my first experience with disks and I think they could have saved weight and money by spec'ing good rim brakes. with the money they saved they could have put a decent EBB in the bike. This is a SS bike...the speeds this thing attains (unless you are magnus backstad and can push a 42;12) you don't need disks.

I think those of us who consider investing 30 min. @ 6mph to get 5 min. @ 30+ a prettty good deal would disagree.

 

[shiggy]

Yow bud, speak for yourself.

Yup! I hit 42.5 mph in the Sea Otter XC race and was passing gearies.

And when the down trail is steep enough that no one is pedaling, gearing does not matter but brakes sure do!

 

[Super E]

Anything about the rig that should make me reconsider?

If I have a couple hundred extra $, what should I think about upgading, if anything (the Bontrager Select stuff seems a bit portly, but also pretty bomber)?

S

I found a fatal flaw with the RIG - it's actually a fatal flaw for my other geared HT and FS bikes since I don't want to ride them as much anymore. So you may want to consider the loneliness that your other bikes will endure when you get a RIG.

I say get one - ride it for a few weeks and then decided what you want to up-grade.

 

[Cloxxki]

Scott, my searches also didn't go as easily as I'd expected, but I eventually found this related thread :

http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=86741&highlight=$200

Maybe it can inspire you.

 

[yz400e]

Nice SmaCk on the newbie. I may not be fast but I'd probably be ahead of you.

I live in Northwestern Montana (which for those that don't know has a lot of hills). I haven't yet been in a situation where my V-brakes (Avids on Ceramic Rims) didn't do the job. My statement about attained speeds was in reference to dowhillers. I suppose if I pointed the Rig down Dave's Dive on Big Mountain I would want disks but then the speeds would be approaching 60 mph. Speeds less than 40 have never been a problem with my V brakes.

I'm not a total weight weenie but Avid BB5's and the bontrager hubs outweigh a non disk hub and Vbrakes by quite a bit. As well as cost more. So far, the Avids haven't been awe inspiring. maybe a high end hydraulic like the hope mono minis' would change my mind. Also, I have been in mud races where disks had as many or more problems as V-brakes.

My real complaint with the eccentric is the 'wedge' system used to anchor it. In design it is similar to the threaded headset that had a 'goose neck' or 'quill' stem that was anchored by a wedge. To remove the stem you loosened the bolt and tapped on it. the wedge came loose and the stem came out.

the EBB on the rig doesn't come apart so easy. In order to keep it from slipping under pedalling effort, I have it tightened down so much that I need a hammer to knock it loose. Like I really wanna carry a hammer with me on a bike ride.

The EBB that came with a friends Salsa has a much better system for releasing the wedge.

Anyway, I'm sure I posted stuff that is common knowledge (or should be). However, I still stand by my preference for quality rim brakes (and yes they do exist) with a quality EBB over low end Disks and a crap EBB just cuz it's fashionable to have disks on a bike.

+++++++++++++
I thought some of you might find the following humorous. I am posting below an email conversation I had with Fisher bikes. Talk about CYA. Salsa is more than willing to post information about their EBB. Since it is email, the initial request is last.

++++++++
Unfortunately I don't have a diagram for this. Liability reasons stop us from providing this, because if a consumer does this wrong and causes damage to the bike or them, we're held responsible, this is why I refered you to the dealer.

Josh Vick
Gary Fisher/Trek Bicycle Tech Support
[email protected]

-----Original Message-----
From:
Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2005 9:49 AM
To: Consumer, Fisher
Subject: RE: [FisherBikes.com]

Thanks again for directing me to a dealer.

I fixed the problem myself last night. Q.E.D. I would have preferred
some sort of diagram from Fisher. But probably for legal reasons you
guys are afraid to let the bicycle owner think on their own. What if the
BB had slipped and I was 10 miles from the trail head? How is my dealer
going to help me then? Isn't mountain biking also about being self
reliant? A responsible / safe rider should be able to work on the bike
themselves. And Fisher Bikes ought to help promote safe / responsible
riding by enabling the cyclist to educate him/her self.

I did found a real nice diagram showing an eccentric BB on the Salsa
site.
Too bad the fisher site isn't more helpful.

Finally, I figure that if the dealer couldn't set it up correctly the
first time they won't get it right the second time.

Regards,

-----Original Message-----
From: Consumer, Fisher [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2005 8:52 AM
To:
Subject: RE: [FisherBikes.com]

This does happen sometimes, I would recommend sourcing any trek or
fisher dealer to have them adjust this properly.

Josh Vick
Gary Fisher/Trek Bicycle Tech Support
[email protected]

-----Original Message-----
From:
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2005 5:54 PM
To: Consumer, Fisher
Subject: RE: [FisherBikes.com]

Thanks for the quick reply

I did loosen the screw (first I backed off the locking screw) then I
loosened the hex head cap screw. The BB would not budge. The bike has
about 30miles on it since new a week ago. My fisher dealer is about
2250miles away.

My guess is it slipped while riding (just too powerful I guess) and it
is now jammed. Chain stretch on the park chain checker is at 25%.

Thanks,

-----Original Message-----
From: Consumer, Fisher [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Monday, March 21, 2005 5:05 PM
To:
Subject: RE: [FisherBikes.com]

Thanks for writing
All adjustments are made at the bottom bracket, you'll loosen the
eccentic BB, turn it forward to tighten the chain and retighten. I would
highly recommend having your fisher dealer perform this.

Josh Vick
Gary Fisher/Trek Bicycle Tech Support
[email protected]

-----Original Message-----

Sent: Monday, March 21, 2005 4:34 PM
To: Consumer, Fisher
Subject: [FisherBikes.com]

Name:
Message:
HI,

I have a Gary Fisher Rig.

I need to adjust the chain tension. My bike dd not come with any
instructions on how to properly adjust the eccentric BB.. Nor can I
find anything on the web site.

could you please direct me to a source for information on the type of
eccentric BB installed in the Rig.

thanks,

 

[GlowBoy]

I live in Northwestern Montana (which for those that don't know has a lot of hills). I haven't yet been in a situation where my V-brakes (Avids on Ceramic Rims) didn't do the job.

Avid discs are not going to be awe-inspiring on dry rides, because I will agree with you that in dry conditions V brakes usually provide plenty of stopping power for reasonable effort.

But try riding in the rain, mud or snow, and the difference between Vs and discs is night and day. Unlike rim brakes, discs are almost never affected by conditions (I did once have my discs' stopping power reduced -- by a deluge so intense I couldn't see 50 feet -- and that is the one and only time this has happened to me). Also pad wear is far less of an issue when you're riding in gritty conditions. I live in Western Oregon, and will never ride on rim brakes between November and March again.

 

[Nat]

I may not be fast but I'd probably be ahead of you.

Whoa ho ho!!! Day one and he's already throwing down! What, you mean you're probably faster than...everyone on this board????

I did loosen the screw (first I backed off the locking screw) then I
loosened the hex head cap screw.

You may have figured this out already, but you don't have to back off the "locking screw." If you keep turning the wrench, the bolt will turn freely for about two rotations before it comes against resistance. At that point, keep turning it against resistance, and the bolt will push the wedge out of place, and the entire EBB will move freely.

 

[Billy Zoom]

I'd say the ride quality is lacking some.

I bought the bike thinking that I'd probably want to get a steel frame, since I loved the feel of the Gunnar Ruffian it replaced. I hoped I'd be wrong, but the Rig feels much less comfortable on the trail to me (riding an XL, 160 pounds). It's a good bike and a great value, but let's not get crazy as if it's all that.

I transferred over some of my good parts from my Gunnar and Switchblade, including MArta SL brakes, Cane creek headset, XTR cranks w/Boone ti chainring, easton carbon DH bar, Dean ti seatpost, and my Candy ti pedals. If weight is an issue for you, I'd take a look at the brakes (although they work great). I didn't like the stock bar, as it was too narrow. I'd also consider replacing the seatpost, from a weight and a comfort standpoint.

Anyway, I'll be ordering a custom steel frame as soon as my divorce is final and I have money again. I might be riding it for quite some time.

Joel

 

[riderx]

(riding an XL, 160 pounds).

How tall are you?

 

[yz400e]

Whoa ho ho!!! Day one and he's already throwing down! What, you mean you're probably faster than...everyone on this board????

You may have figured this out already, but you don't have to back off the "locking screw." If you keep turning the wrench, the bolt will turn freely for about two rotations before it comes against resistance. At that point, keep turning it against resistance, and the bolt will push the wedge out of place, and the entire EBB will move freely.

The EBB on the rig doesn't work that way. What you describe is what I have figured out to be the Bushnell type (as sold by Salsa and others ?) the rig has one big wedge (I guess you could call it a pinch bolt). As I tighten the bolt, it pulls this wedge up a ramp and wedges the EBB into place. if I continue to back off the bolt, it just comes out in my hand. Very poor design. It works on the same principle as the handle bar / stem set up on a threaded headset or kids bike.

As for braking, I like to look at it from the 'glass is half full' point of view instead of 'half empty'. If you are experiencing brake fade, maybe you are riding them too much ? Except for coming to a complete stop, the only time brakes are needed is a light application to control line or set up for a corner. Do I need the 'power' of a disk brake for that ? Maybe it is just my riding style but I don't ride the brakes.

Winter riding in montana with ceramics and V's is no problem in slushy wet sloppy crap. Since most of my winter riding has been on hardpack ice or slush not too much in deep powder. I can see where disks would be better in powder or really sticky mud that would pack in around a V brake. I see a place and need for disk brakes. I don't see them as the end all / be all that so many (especially the magazines) want you to believe.