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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Review: Zanflare B3 bicycle light - prototype

Let make it clear, I've got sample light from Zanflare directly in order to make unbiased preproduction review. Product is published at their web page:
https://www.zanflare.com/copy-of-vct-slb-056-led-motion-se

They also decided to give it a try at crowdfund site:
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/b3-bike-light-your-night-owl-bicycle

I'm not here to decide if this is right business model or not I just want to inform the readers where they can find official product data.


First impressions

The light is nice looking, fins edges are nicely rounded so it feels good in the hands. As can be seen on pictures (currently not mine yet) the wire is 16AWG (overkill) and has SolarStorm type of connector which I don't like, still it fits on tipical battery pack. The mount is GoPro style.

Modes operating. Not tested everything yet. Works more or less as described, except....see below.

Back button
turns leds on. Quick press swithes between one, two or three leds. Long press turns leds off and the last stage of leds is remembered even if accidentialy unpluged . There is small flaw. Immediately after turning off you can't switch the light on and you have to wait for about 2 seconds. Don't know the reason, but the feeling is not so good. You might think something went wrong.

Top button switches between Lo, Mid, High modes. It correctly works without Off mode in the cycle. Preset levels are 15%, 50%, 100%. Personaly I would rather see it as 5%, 35%, 100% since eyes are logharitmic not linear "device". Brightness change from 50% to 100% is not that much as one might expect, but this is general problem with any light.


Programing does NOT work as we anticipated. In fact there is no such thing. I was bit seduced by statement in Instruction Manual: "Double press SW2 to exit personalized brightness mode, note that the brightness level you have set will be saved." Zanflare confirmed it is wrong and they will correct the manual.

So there is only "Personalized Brightnes Level Setting" acting as 4th special mode which is valid only until you power off the light or change to other mode. You can set it at any mode if you press top button for 2 seconds. The leds blinks 3 times so you know you have entered into personalized mode. Each click advance to higher level by 10%, so you can choose from 10 levels (similar as with KD2 light). After desired brightness level is choosen you need to double press top switch to exit that mode. Funny enough there is no sign you have exit from this mode. I wish to see some sign of confirmation. It's bit confuzing.

There are other 3 special modes: Strobe, SOS, Beacon. To enter this mode you need to double press top button. With short press you can cycle between all three special modes. To exit that mode you need to double press top switch same as in Personalized mode.

Buttons are little stiff and you need to press hard to switch works. On one side this is good cause it won't happen accidentialy, but anoying as you might change the light position pushing it so hard. I can't imagine how this will work using gloves in winter. I would love to see the swithes are easier to operate.



Leds and beam profile

Leds are Cree XP-L HD (High Density) V5. The tint is not super white but with bit of yellow hue, I would speculate it is around 1D. This is bit better than we have anticipated.

Here is the comparation picture of leds tint. From left to right an old Yinding (about 4C tint), BT21, BT40S, Zanflare B3
Tint comparation.jpg

Reflectors are OP (Orange Peeled) which disperse the light nicely. There is almost no defined hotspot. This is the result of quite small reflectors and pretty big led die (about same size as XM-L2). Diameters of front holes is only 13.8mm which means the reflectors are merely about 16-17mm. So 20mm TIR optics would not fit. Will be measured when the light is dissassembled.

All in all I like the beam. Maybe it is more on wide side so pretty good for bar use. And it is pretty bright too. Will see how it compares with others.

Thermal transfer
The light gets warm even hot very quickly specialy on High modes. This indicates good heat transfer. Of course it has to be proven after internal inspection, but first impression is favorable.


Current Measurments

I've used fully charged standard KD pack with 4 Panasonic NCR18650B cells. Followed same technic as Garry below and got bit higher readings.
#LEDs on Level Amps
3 H 8A+ => shut off or switch to Low mode
3 M 2.40A
3 L 0.72A
2 H 3.80A
2 M 1.46A
2 L 0.46A
1 H 1.56A
1 M 0.63A
1 L 0.20A

It looks like many battery packs will have problem. In reality is little bit different as there is substantial voltage drop over additional connectors and wireing. Leaving out measurment tools light still works on full. Later on we need to determine what are voltages when droped. Representative ZFL mentioned lowest allowed voltage is 6V which is bit high. I would set it to 5.6V to maintain voltage drop and sag at battery side.

Waterproof?

Yes, tested. I've submerged the whole light into water for more than 1 hour. It still works. Did not see any flaws. At first there were air bubbles between fins and even on the lens from outside of course.
Light Submerged.jpg

Using tothstick I managed to release those bubbles so I could see if any new appears. Finaly it has been turned on and runt in the water.
Light Submerged Works.jpg

Teardown

In short;
- everything is sealed (GOOD)
- the reflectors are very small 16.8 x 7.45mm (well 20 x 13mm would be better)
- the leds are mounted on single copper PCB (VERY GOOD). There is also some thermal paste behind
- leds PCB sticks with another Alu backplate which is screwed to the housing (BAD).
- there is quite small area (tiny lips and small part under the screws) for heat transfer to the housing and to surprise no thermal paste on that lips (BAD)
- below central led there is thermistor soldered to the PCB which means temperature is controlled directly near leds (GOOD)

Some most important pictures.
Reflectors:
Reflectors.JPG

Reflectors size:
Ref Diameter.JPG
Ref height.JPG

Thermistor on PCB:
Thermistor.JPG

Driver consists of two PCBs:
Driver 2.JPG

Leds PCB:
LED PCB.JPG

Alu backplate:
Alu backplate.JPG

There is a lot more pictures but would overhelm this review.


Driver

It has three separate parts for each led and one common micro controller for modes. Leds are driven by FR9809 chip and sense resistors are R016 or 0.016 Ohm. Modes are controlled by unknow chip, but it looks pretty powerful and complex if you take into account all those pins it has. Here are some picturs from different sides.

Driver 4 outer leds.jpg
Driver back side.jpg
Driver Upper Switch.jpg
Driver Cross Conection.jpg


Status Led
Additional measurments of voltage tresholds for status led at driver input. Keep in mind that actual voltage at the battery side would be higher than at driver side due to voltage drop. So I read the voltages that driver gets on input since the battery side could be variable ie. different battery packs and cables.

Voltage treshold Status led
6.85V blue to red
6.03V steady red to red blinking
5.65V red blinking to light completly off

You need to disconnect the power to reset the status if the voltage for any reason gets higher. Between 6.03V and 5.65V after reconnecting red status led is blinking even if the light is turned off. It looks this is warning the battery voltage is below 6V. If the voltage is below 5.65V the light won't even turn on.

To be continued....

Some discussions about this light is going on in this thread too: http://forums.mtbr.com/lights-night...ts-bike-light-3-independent-leds-1052103.html

edit 20th Jul 2018: corrected tittle as final product is somewhat different
 

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<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:OfficeDocumentSettings> <o:AllowPNG/> </o:OfficeDocumentSettings> </xml><![endif]--> My review may end up more of a jumbled mess of thoughts than a nice organized write-up, but oh well. I'm pretty busy these days and finding it hard to devote time to these things. Anyway, here we go.

Initial impressions are positive. The light is small and lightweight (4.9 oz by my measurements). The fins are nicely done and well rounded so as not to be rough to handle. The buttons are a bit small and a little stiff to operate, but the stiffness feels like quality to me. I do agree with ledoman that using those buttons with gloves may be tough.

The button operation is as ledoman described. Each LED must be driven independently because as you change between 1LED-2LEDs-3LEDs each single LED stays driven at the same level.

Beam pattern is surprisingly good (wide and floody due to small OP reflectors) with no hotspot and also very few rings (which are only visible up close against a white wall). Even in 2LED mode (the outer 2LEDs) the beam pattern does not appear to have a hole of any kind.

The beam pattern is floody, so it's more well suited for as a bar light. In my opinion a better design (at least for a design using reflectors) would have been to have the center reflector much larger in order to get more throw. The 2 side LEDs with smaller reflectors provide plenty of flood for up close. The light does have surprisingly good throw but that throw is produced purely from the total output of lumens. As you lower mode levels you lose throw pretty quickly.

While testing current pulled from the battery pack in "3 LED Mode" on high on a fully charged pack, I saw a high of 6.40amps quickly dropping down to around 6.0amps! Wow! No wonder this light heats up quick. It can't maintain 6amps for long, but I haven't tested how far it drops yet (that's another future test during the temperature/thermal testing). Users will definitely need high quality battery packs with thick power leads and protection circuits rated high enough not to trip. (I imagine a lot of users will run into issues, even if using mediocre decent battery packs.)

Current Measurments (From Battery Pack):
#LEDs on Level Amps
3 H +/-6.40A
3 M 2.17A
3 L 0.61A
2 H 3.30A
2 M 1.33A
2 L 0.39A
1 H 1.45A
1 M 0.60A
1 L 0.18A

Here are my current measurements taken in "1 LED Mode" for output at each 10% increment (current measured pulling from my homemade 6-cell battery pack consisting of Panasonic/Sanyo NCR18650BE cells and a 7amp protection circuit with 20awg power lead). Keep in mind I have two extra connectors in-line during measurements which could be causing some voltage drop.

Level Amps
1 0.18A
2 0.24A
3 0.36A
4 0.49A
5 0.63A
6 0.77A
7 0.93A
8 1.09A
9 1.26A
10 1.45A

I took beamshots of each LED mode and each mode level and compared to my Solarstorm X3 (driver stock, has pills, modded to Neutral white) and my Nitefighter BT21S (stock driver and LEDs, only changed optics to LEDDNA 10º with white holders). There was a lot of moisture in the air, but they seemed to come out ok. Beamshots in my standard locations. First set across my backyard (approx. 185 feet to the two trees, approx. 275 feet to the house off to the left of the trees, utility pole in the distance is at approx. another 100 feet away from the trees), second set in the woods at my "simulated bike trail" environment:

(BEAMSHOT PICS TO COME)

Here is a video showing how the two buttons operate (except for "Personalized Brightness Mode"): https://youtu.be/07fd-h6r9CA



STAY TUNED FOR MORE REVIEW

(It's coming, probably in stages.)

-Garry

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Well the B3 is definitely attractive to look at. Promise of good power for a reasonable price is there too. Looking at the current draw you guys are getting I can see why the battery power cable is such a large gauge. Current draw seems inappropriate for claimed lumen output though. Roughly double the readings I get from my GW XS or Ituo XP3. Will be interesting to see how much of that power is used to produce light and how much to produce heat. 8 cell batteries might be required to get much runtime if you like to use high all the time. Definitely has my curiosity level elevated!
Mole
 

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"pretty big led die (about same size as XM-L2)"

Not cree LEDs and 6+ amps with ledoman seeing even higher (8+) is bringing to light the issues we saw when this light was first in the works with GJHS. Almost sounds like they went direct drive for high mode on 3 led. Or they are trying to drive the lattice bright leds to max to try and get close to claimed lumens.

Understanding the better cooling with reflectors now. The design needs better transfer to the head since the light can so hot.

Sounds like it could be a fun light for us light gurus but I could see serious problems for the average rider.

I am bothered by the cost with the chosen LEDs. Think they would have had an easier time with heat issues on this light seeing that cree emitters would be more efficient.

Anxiously awaiting teardown pics.

Thanks for this guys, nice to finally see something new from you guys.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
 

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Current Measurments

I've used fully charged standard KD pack with 4 Panasonic NCR18650B cells. Followed same technic as Garry below and got bit higher readings.
#LEDs on Level Amps
3 H 8A+ => shut off or switch to Low mode

2 H 3.80A

1 H 1.56A
If these amperages are being measured at the pack something is wrong.

Assuming 8 volts on the pack its 12.5 watts for one lamp on high, 30.4 for two and 64 watts for 3 lamps on high, that doesn't seem right. Using the cree PCT tool with V5 bin the led produces 74 lumens per watt at it's worst rating if both the optical and driver efficiency are at 80%. Even at those lousy efficiency levels two lamps should make 2250 lumens, the three on high doesn't make any sense at all.

Either something is throwing the amperage measurements off or the driver is massively inefficient, almost looks like an internal short circuit is happening on 3 high. Maybe Zanflare should be contacted to see if the drivers are faulty.
 

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I am bothered by the cost with the chosen LEDs. Think they would have had an easier time with heat issues on this light seeing that cree emitters would be more efficient.
I thought they were xpl v5's. Where did you see lattice bright?
 

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Well the B3 is definitely attractive to look at. Promise of good power for a reasonable price is there too. Looking at the current draw you guys are getting I can see why the battery power cable is such a large gauge. Current draw seems inappropriate for claimed lumen output though. Roughly double the readings I get from my GW XS or Ituo XP3. Will be interesting to see how much of that power is used to produce light and how much to produce heat. 8 cell batteries might be required to get much runtime if you like to use high all the time. Definitely has my curiosity level elevated!
Mole
When the users use our battery case on Indiegogo page, they will get the ideal voltage 8.4V (4 18650 Cells: 2 series and 2 parallel), run time and brightness. The acceptable voltage is from 6 to 8.4V. There is a risk if higher than 9V. And it will not work if lower than 6V.
 

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I thought they were xpl v5's. Where did you see lattice bright?
Xp-ls would be same size as xm-l2 (maybe i misunderstood ledoman), beam pattern would be almost identical. XP-l is nothing more than an xm-l2 in a xpg2 foot print.

Xp-l v5 shouldnt need near than much power to get 2000 lumens out of 3 of them. Little over half that maybe.

Definately hoping I misunderstood because then it should have its rated output (even if it cant run it for more than a brief period)

Nice thing is i have packs that should be able to handle the insane current draw. Far gauge wire and all.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
 

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Great start guys! How long have we been waiting for this?

The light was sort of expected to have heat issues. As you recall the size vs lumens was a big debate in the original thread as well as the lack of a solid core. Things that GB sort of knew, that can finally be confirmed now in our testing.

FYI, the case was originally supposed to be copper extending to the outside where the LED plate attached, though weight and I'm sure price ended that. In the original designs you could see the copper.

My sample is coming and I will do my usual beam shots and teardown.
 

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Xp-ls would be same size as xm-l2 (maybe i misunderstood ledoman), beam pattern would be almost identical. XP-l is nothing more than an xm-l2 in a xpg2 foot print.

Xp-l v5 shouldnt need near than much power to get 2000 lumens out of 3 of them. Little over half that maybe.

Definately hoping I misunderstood because then it should have its rated output (even if it cant run it for more than a brief period)

Nice thing is i have packs that should be able to handle the insane current draw. Far gauge wire and all.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
It's quite possible I'm missing something because nothing about this light is making sense to me. With all that current and surface area to radiate heat it should be making more light than an XP3, not less. The XP3 has it beat in beam pattern and colour temperature. Proven reliability, good run time and easy to use. I don't understand why you would be interested in this light. I figured that new Imalent BG10 would have your attention, it has more features and gimmicks than your old Fenix. Probably last just as long too.

There were things I was hoping to see in this light that I haven't found yet, hopefully the driver gets sorted out. I really want to try a helmet light with some nichia's. They'd fit on the led boards but the low vf would make the driver melt. Xpl hi's would be ok, they would fix the colour temp and beam pattern but wouldn't be much different than my XP3.

Bike lights just don't seem to be advancing, so much me too design. Maybe the new luxeon V and companies like Imalent trying crazy stuff will shake things up.
 

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When the users use our battery case on Indiegogo page, they will get the ideal voltage 8.4V (4 18650 Cells: 2 series and 2 parallel), run time and brightness. The acceptable voltage is from 6 to 8.4V. There is a risk if higher than 9V. And it will not work if lower than 6V.
My speculation of the necessity of an 8 cell battery was based on the current draw measured by the reviewers with the use of a 8.4V 8 cell battery and a 2 hr. runtimie on high (what I consider minimum acceptable). Still a lot of unknown variables about this light on my end but guessing your opinion of an ideal runtime (@max) and mine differ. Thanks for your reply.
Mole
 

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It's quite possible I'm missing something because nothing about this light is making sense to me. With all that current and surface area to radiate heat it should be making more light than an XP3, not less. The XP3 has it beat in beam pattern and colour temperature. Proven reliability, good run time and easy to use. I don't understand why you would be interested in this light. I figured that new Imalent BG10 would have your attention, it has more features and gimmicks than your old Fenix. Probably last just as long too.

There were things I was hoping to see in this light that I haven't found yet, hopefully the driver gets sorted out. I really want to try a helmet light with some nichia's. They'd fit on the led boards but the low vf would make the driver melt. Xpl hi's would be ok, they would fix the colour temp and beam pattern but wouldn't be much different than my XP3.

Bike lights just don't seem to be advancing, so much me too design. Maybe the new luxeon V and companies like Imalent trying crazy stuff will shake things up.
Arc

You are missing a lot

First off see my signature. Trails I only ride Ituo, pavement is Ravemen (unless a long ride then my wiz20 with wide angle optics that Mole recommended)

However:

Before all that began around a year ago I was just another "light guru" aka light geek around here. User name, Tigris99. Did many reviews and such. I blame garry, cat, mole, ledoman and GJHS for that lol.

Bike lights rekindled my infatuation with LED lighting. Modified chinese lights, machined bits for them, even toy with machining my own (really need to get back to work on those). So I have everything between the cheapest 808 clone up to gloworm X2 and XS. Some for review others like gloworm, 880 clone and others I bought. All on a shelf in my collection. All ridden once at least.

This ZF light was born here with all of us discussing and pushing for it. GJHS came the closest, which is this head design and other details. Was abandoned by gearbest/zanflare (one in the same) for reasons unknown fully. Then suddenly it reappears over on BLF apparently.

Zanflare may have this light all weird and some things way out of wack, but its existence started here with some serious time put in by these guys. So no matter how failed the design ended up by this point due to Zanflare, the light exists. Which means I have to have it. May never get ridden on a trail (though I always ride every new addition once) but it must be part of my collection.

Many of these guys like Mole and Cat have a large collection of lights as well. Likely well surpassing mine. We all have higher end lights (Ituo, gloworm etc). Obviously I have a full collection of Ituo and ravemen.

As for hopes that things are not what they seem, we had high hopes and realistic expectations of how this would be, so ya I have some hopes that these guys doing their thing will prove initial impressions somewhat incorrect. They are the best at what we do, so I anxiously await all their findings to be shared.

As for advancements, there are limitations of current technology. Remember LED and batteries are designed for bike lights. They are designed for other purposes and happen to fit for this purpose really well.

As well as latest and greatest tech is expensive. Bike lights are not something where there is big money like other bike components. So innovation is much slower.

Also that Imalent brand hasnt done anything special. Bogus lumen rating, little battery and so on. Just more added things to try and act innovative. All of which has been done already. The emitter choice isnt widely adopted due to cost and heat issues.

That Luxeon V has promise. Higher drive current rating, but seems per watt the output is cruising pretty close to cree. Just designed to be pushed at higher currents. Cree usually has an answer to this stuff though, they did to the nichia 219c (released xp-g3)

A big break through would be batteries which is coming.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
 

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Discussion Starter #18
If these amperages are being measured at the pack something is wrong.

Assuming 8 volts on the pack its 12.5 watts for one lamp on high, 30.4 for two and 64 watts for 3 lamps on high, that doesn't seem right. Using the cree PCT tool with V5 bin the led produces 74 lumens per watt at it's worst rating if both the optical and driver efficiency are at 80%. Even at those lousy efficiency levels two lamps should make 2250 lumens, the three on high doesn't make any sense at all.

Either something is throwing the amperage measurements off or the driver is massively inefficient, almost looks like an internal short circuit is happening on 3 high. Maybe Zanflare should be contacted to see if the drivers are faulty.
arc, there are two things you need to take into account. First are shotcomings of measurment equipment - it makes additional voltage drop. And secondly there is voltage drop at battery side too + wires and connector. More cells in parallel less voltage drop. At lower currents this is not important but it escalates more and more (expotentialy) at higher currents. Unfortunately we don't have proffesional equipmet.

Now if the driver is regulated (we don't know yet) the lower is input voltage the higher is current in order to maintain constant power. Since voltage drop over the measurment tools is significant the current gets higher. There is some current drop, but it might be due temperature change. Direct drive is also possible, but I doubt it. At least it shouldn't happen.

I still write my things under "First impressions" so things can change. I plan to tear the light down and I might try to measure things more accurately and closer to the light or even to the leds.
 

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Well I got sphere measurements last night (used a Fenix HL55 alongside to check/refine my calibration), HOWEVER I'm unable to put them in my spreadsheet and post #'s as I will be heading out of the office today! DOH! (Why is it that work always gets in the way when you have personal business to attend to???) I'll get them posted up as quickly as I can - possibly later this afternoon. For now I will say WOW! I think 3LEDs on high greatly surpasses what I saw from my heavily modded BT40S pushing 2000 lumens! BUT, #'s drop very quickly (no surprise there)! Lower levels are very steady though.

I'm waiting until all other tests/measurements are done before tearing open mine. I don't want an "Uh-Oh" moment and realize I can no longer get measurements and pics I should have got while it was working! I do hope to pass CAT a working sample :) .

-Garry
 

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Discussion Starter #20
With permission of old4570 memeber at BLF I can post in advance his current readings between battery pack and light. He will do review of B3 at BLF. You can read his teaser (whatever it means) at this link: Zanflare B3 Teaser ( Bike Light ) | BudgetLightForum.com

So his readings are:

1 emitter ( Low – 0.4 Amp ) ( Medium – 0.7 Amp ) ( High – 1.56 Amp )
2 emitters ( Low – 0.56 Amp ) ( Medium – 1.54 Amp ) ( High – 3.16 Amp )
3 emitters ( Low – 0.84 Amp ) ( Medium – 2.14 Amp ) ( High – 5.25 Amp )

Batteries were 2s 2200mAh RC Li-Po batteries with XT60 connectors, used two in parallel. So much better than me and Garry used.

Still readings are quite similar if you take into account differencies in batteries, wireing, connectors and mesurment tools. Current on 3leds/High is still quite big, I would speculate about 35W since I don't know the voltages at a time. And yes light gets hot !!! Will test thermal protection too, but very likely more at the end since there is chance something goes wrong.
 
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