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Mexican e-rider
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hey Warp and Rzozaya:

I have been using the Revelation for a while now and while it works very well, I noticed that I am nowhere near the recommended PSI settings for it. The manual recomments using from 100 to 140 psi in both the positive and negative chamber. I am using around 50 psi and the fork sag is around 25% (barely). If I wanted more sag I would have to run even less pressure!

So what gives here? I am thinking maybe the oil level in the chambers might be too low and thus the chamber volume is higher. Any thoughts?

Thanks

Mada
 

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"El Whatever"
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elmadaleno said:
Hey Warp and Rzozaya:

I have been using the Revelation for a while now and while it works very well, I noticed that I am nowhere near the recommended PSI settings for it. The manual recomments using from 100 to 140 psi in both the positive and negative chamber. I am using around 50 psi and the fork sag is around 25% (barely). If I wanted more sag I would have to run even less pressure!

So what gives here? I am thinking maybe the oil level in the chambers might be too low and thus the chamber volume is higher. Any thoughts?

Thanks

Mada
The only thing I can tink off is too much compression damping.

There's nothing wrong with the low pressures and if your pump has a range between 0-300PSI, you may not be getting an accurate reading.

I would say not to worry. Lower PSI means lower stress on your seals and longer life to them.

Your oil level has nothing to do with it. You have oil in three places. The MC damper (top of right leg) and between the lowers casting and the stanchions.

The three of them are separated, unlike Marzocchis, Foxes or Maguras, where oil volume or level affects the overall behaviour of your fork.

However, too much oil on the Motion Control and you may not be getting full travel and too little and you lose the compression damping.

Too little oil on the lowers and you may have some excesive stiction and could be punishing your bushings. On the other hand, if you have too much oil in there, you may lose some travel and may stress your wipers and seals.

I think your "problem" is kinda normal. I recall that Revelation and Pikes run low pressures... but yeah, 50psi for someone your size is on the low side.

The only other thing that would make you use low psi is too much compression damping. Do you have the Floodgate full open and the compression full fast?
Have you checked your semi-bath oil? this could cause a lot of stiction, but you would feel the fork very notchy and not plush.

If you're using your full travel, I would not worry. Are you bottoming the thing?
You should have more less the same negative and positive pressure.
 

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Bike to the Bone...
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Hi Mada

I think on somewhere else they say that RS recomendations are way high than actuals. I also run lower PSI than those published.

Anyway, have fun!
elmadaleno said:
Hey Warp and Rzozaya:

I have been using the Revelation for a while now and while it works very well, I noticed that I am nowhere near the recommended PSI settings for it. The manual recomments using from 100 to 140 psi in both the positive and negative chamber. I am using around 50 psi and the fork sag is around 25% (barely). If I wanted more sag I would have to run even less pressure!

So what gives here? I am thinking maybe the oil level in the chambers might be too low and thus the chamber volume is higher. Any thoughts?

Thanks

Mada
 

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Mexican e-rider
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
The damper works fine, its just that its weird that I'm 190 pounds and run 50 PSI on the fork :confused: :confused: Even the Fox Float uses more pressure.

I ran 50 psi this weekend and that came up to a little less than 25% sag; it was a bit soft for my liking but it was good enough to keep that setting for the whole ride. I bottomed the fork a couple of times, but only on very rough sections or where I managed to get a little air. I will add 10 psi more next time and forget about the sag settings.

My theory is that there either there should be more grease on the positive air chamber, or that RS manufacturing tolerances are way off and I got a larger chamber. Anyway, its all good, the fork is a dream.

Thanks,

Mada

PD: I used two different pumps on the fork...
 

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Now with 3 more inches!
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When I rode it round the parking lot it seemed super-plush. Possibly a little too plush as it was blowing through it's travel very fast on not very rough stuff. If you're bottoming out, I'd suggest running higher pressure and seeing if you can alter the sag in other ways.
 

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"El Whatever"
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tigerdog said:
If you're bottoming out, I'd suggest running higher pressure and seeing if you can alter the sag in other ways.
In theory, you set the sag with the positive pressure. Then you adjust how plush it gets in the initial travel with the negavite one... because the design of RS forks, when you run a bit more neg than pos pressure, you start eating some travel.

But yeah... I had not thought clear about it until Tiger brought it up... use more pressure on the positive chamber until it stops bottoming and use the negative pressure to get down to sag.

The positive pressure is the main spring. It controls both sag and most importantly, bottoming. Negative pressure helps to overcome initial stiction and moves the spring curve a bit during the initial part of the travel, then it makes less for the fork's behaviour. In a Doppio Air Marzocchi, there's a thrid chamber (PAR Air) that is a further help to the main spring to control bottoming.

You're using 50 PSI on the pos, but never mentioned how much you run on the negative. Is your fork Solo Air or Dual Air (can't remember).

Off topic and talking about forks ... Do you guys think 3 grand of pesos is a fair price for my Phaon? Less than 6 months of use, better than proper maintenance, a couple tiny scratches on the stanchions, but not as for damaging seals, long steerer (195+mm), spare springs. Retails for 6200 pesos here. After riding the AM1 the Phaon is up for sale. Not really like night and day difference, but the AM1 has an edge over the Magura (main difference the bigger stanchions and more plushness) and having my bike many things to upgrade, keeping both is dumb.
 

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Warp said:
In theory, you set the sag with the positive pressure. Then you adjust how plush it gets in the initial travel with the negavite one... because the design of RS forks, when you run a bit more neg than pos pressure, you start eating some travel.

But yeah... I had not thought clear about it until Tiger brought it up... use more pressure on the positive chamber until it stops bottoming and use the negative pressure to get down to sag.

The positive pressure is the main spring. It controls both sag and most importantly, bottoming. Negative pressure helps to overcome initial stiction and moves the spring curve a bit during the initial part of the travel, then it makes less for the fork's behaviour. In a Doppio Air Marzocchi, there's a thrid chamber (PAR Air) that is a further help to the main spring to control bottoming.

You're using 50 PSI on the pos, but never mentioned how much you run on the negative. Is your fork Solo Air or Dual Air (can't remember).

Off topic and talking about forks ... Do you guys think 3 grand of pesos is a fair price for my Phaon? Less than 6 months of use, better than proper maintenance, a couple tiny scratches on the stanchions, but not as for damaging seals, long steerer (195+mm), spare springs. Retails for 6200 pesos here. After riding the AM1 the Phaon is up for sale. Not really like night and day difference, but the AM1 has an edge over the Magura (main difference the bigger stanchions and more plushness) and having my bike many things to upgrade, keeping both is dumb.
The rev is a dual air.

About your Phaon, the risky stuff is that not many people associate Magura with forks, so it's not going to be an easy sale, but if someone knows it, it can be a good sale. If you're not in a hurry probably your 3,000 pesos can be a good sale.

About your opinion about a night and day difference, it's the same I feel about the Talas and the Rev. The Rev is a little better, but both are awesome :)
 

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"El Whatever"
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rzozaya1969 said:
About your Phaon, the risky stuff is that not many people associate Magura with forks, so it's not going to be an easy sale, but if someone knows it, it can be a good sale. If you're not in a hurry probably your 3,000 pesos can be a good sale.
I'm not hurry... I would post the link to the Maisterwrk page to make people see it's a product that (like Votec bikes) while not common, can be got here in Mexico.

I just want to get enough to get a set of Hope Pro II's... that's like around 2500, and 2500 would be a very fair price for the Phaon.

rzozaya1969 said:
About your opinion about a night and day difference, it's the same I feel about the Talas and the Rev. The Rev is a little better, but both are awesome :)
Yeah... but the TALAS and the Rev are both 32mm stanchions and same travel. It's like comparing a Mustang and a Camaro.

It surprised me to find little difference between the Phaon and the AM1 being both so different. The AM1 has beefier stanchions and 5mm more travel at the setting I'm running it (even though the stanchions are 150mm capable). It's like comparing a Corvette and a 911.

Just to properly highjack the thread (as any on the Mexico forum ;) ).... have you decided what frame to get?
 

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Warp said:
...

Yeah... but the TALAS and the Rev are both 32mm stanchions and same travel. It's like comparing a Mustang and a Camaro.

It surprised me to find little difference between the Phaon and the AM1 being both so different. The AM1 has beefier stanchions and 5mm more travel at the setting I'm running it (even though the stanchions are 150mm capable). It's like comparing a Corvette and a 911.

Just to properly highjack the thread (as any on the Mexico forum ;) ).... have you decided what frame to get?
So, both frames are 32mm staanchions, same travel and virtually the same A-C distance. But the Rev has platform damping, compression damping and neg chamber.... I don't think your comparison magnitudes are the same.

Well, I agree on the Mustang-vs-Camaro, but not mustang-vs-911.
 

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rzozaya1969 said:
So, both frames are 32mm staanchions, same travel and virtually the same A-C distance. But the Rev has platform damping, compression damping and neg chamber.... I don't think your comparison magnitudes are the same.

Well, I agree on the Mustang-vs-Camaro, but not mustang-vs-911.
edit... anyway, I'm going to a Banshee Viento.... Going to do my best to get it.
 

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"El Whatever"
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rzozaya1969 said:
So, both frames are 32mm staanchions, same travel and virtually the same A-C distance. But the Rev has platform damping, compression damping and neg chamber.... I don't think your comparison magnitudes are the same.

Well, I agree on the Mustang-vs-Camaro, but not mustang-vs-911.
Tell me about the similarities of a Phaon and a AM1 as to make little difference. I still think that despite the differences the TALAS and Revelation have more similarities than... uh... a Pahon and a Marzocchi All Mountain 150-130mm.

But to each his own...

I mentioned Corvette Vs. 911... the 'Vette blows any pony car (because it's not really a pony car) out of the water and comes close to the performance of a more sophisticated 911 (not the turbo or Carrera version, though).

In other words... I'm not suprised to see how little difference a TALAS and a Revelation would have, despite their differences. Obviously, the Rev makes a better fork for performance and incredible value... but it's a fair comparison.

What I meant was to give compliments to the Phaon as not being such an inferior fork to the newer design, bigger stanchions, increased adjustability and longer travel of the AM1.

The design of the Phaon dates from 2001... Marzocchi's best of that time should have been not a rival for the Phaon back then... but marketing takes its toll on people.

Nowadays, the Phaon is a very good fork... just not as good as a 32mm stanchions fork.

Oh... congrats on the Viento!!!! Nice choice, it'll make a terrific ride.
 

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Mexican e-rider
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Discussion Starter · #12 · (Edited)
Warp said:
In theory, you set the sag with the positive pressure. Then you adjust how plush it gets in the initial travel with the negavite one... because the design of RS forks, when you run a bit more neg than pos pressure, you start eating some travel.

But yeah... I had not thought clear about it until Tiger brought it up... use more pressure on the positive chamber until it stops bottoming and use the negative pressure to get down to sag.
If I run zero negative pressure the fork becomes REALLY stiff, no matter what pressure I have on the positive chamber. I think going with 50 PSI this weekend was too much, I was running it at 60 PSI before, and although it was super plush, it bottomed out a few times (not too much though). In fact, I got to the 25% sag only when I put 100 psi on the negative chamber.

At 60 PSI the Fork only bottoms out when I hit some really rough stuff or a landing, and since I am doing no more than 1 foot jumps :eek: I don't really need that much bottom out resistance. Whats cool about the Revelation is that even though you might be running lower pressures, the fork's ramp up prevents it from bottoming during "normal" riding.

Also, yesterday I forgot to turn off the floodgate during the entire ride so that might have been preventing the fork from feeling too soft.

Anyway, its all good... exept for a small whipeout I had yesterday the ride was awesome (I have to remember to take it easier on turns when conditions are so muddy)...

Here's a picture of my leg today:mad:
 

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"El Whatever"
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elmadaleno said:
Yeah, I need some of your mad Skillz!! :D
I'm not the one complaining about a small scratch... :p :p

I went once down to a mini-cliff and I'm not bragging about it (ask Tiger or Rito... I guess Rito saw it "live", but we were hauling arse there). ;)
 

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Warp said:
I'm not the one complaining about a small scratch... :p :p

I went once down to a mini-cliff and I'm not bragging about it (ask Tiger or Rito... I guess Rito saw it "live", but we were hauling arse there). ;)
A cliff!!!!!!!:eekster: :confused:

Comm'on, it could barely be called a step...

j/k.. yup, it was indeed some kind of mini-cliff (not that we needed a rescue chopper, though) and Warp was lucky enough to make a potentially dangerous situation into a funny one (I was laughing inside dude:p ).
 

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"El Whatever"
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ritopc said:
(I was laughing inside dude:p ).
I saw it on your face and Tiger's... :D :D

I was laughing out loud. Worst "crash" in decades... It was so dumb, it wasn't really a crash, I just fell off... :D
 

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Mexican e-rider
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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Warp said:
I saw it on your face and Tiger's... :D :D

I was laughing out loud. Worst "crash" in decades... It was so dumb, it wasn't really a crash, I just fell off... :D
Do you remember wellgo pedals? the ones with the elastomer spring? Well the year was 1995 and I was traversing some singletrack next to a 10 meter cliff. I came to a big rock and couldnt unclip, I fell sideways in to the cliff only to be stopped 5 m down by the vegetation. As far as I know, everything is still in its place but its been the scariest $hit that's happened to me on the bike!!!

This sunday I was hauling a$$ and tried to do a very tight turn on bumpy and muddy terrain, the bike slid out from under me. The funny thing is that the picture is my left shin but I slided to the right and that side is unscathed :confused: :thumbsup:
 
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