Mountain Bike Reviews Forum banner

261 - 280 of 315 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
230 Posts
Anyone happen to know the actual seat tube angle on the Rascal? Trying to figure out if it will work with the 2021 Fox Transfer as it's very limited with nose down saddle angles.
Measuring on the picture from there web site, the actual seat angle is about 68 degrees. But it's better to measure on the actual bike.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,054 Posts
I know that everyone here and the pro reviews talk about how well the Rail pedals. But, is this just relative to the 165mm travel or is it really that much better than other bike designs?
I'm coming off a 2020 Trek Remedy. I've had the Remedy since 2018, frame warranty got me on a 20. I really like the bike, but I've go the new bike itch. I want to stay on 27.5, but it seems 150mm rear travel has been swallowed up by 29er trail bikes. There is the Scout and SB140. I'm not too crazy about either of those, but maybe I should be. I'm interested in the Rail and HD5. I really have no way to demo either of those bikes in my area (DFW).
My daily driver is a Ripley. It is perfect for 90% of the trails in my area, so I'm not looking for a one-bike solution.
For enduro racing and out of state trips, the Remedy gets the call. Even in the Texas "Hill" Country, many stages have chunky, square-edge rocks and then flat, pedal-y sections where you have to mash. The transitions and these sprint sections is where I have a question about any bike with big travel. I'd like something that pedals as well as the Remedy. I already know that the Rail will probably be at least 1 or 2 pounds heavier unless I dump some serious money into it. How much would I be giving up on the Rail or HD5 on these sections? Would the weight savings of the HD5 make up for the supposedly better pedaling efficiency of the Rail?
My Ripley was a revelation when I got it. It's so much fun and ready to jump off the slightest undulation, but it's not for enduro racing. I know the Rail and HD5 are fully capable of smashing nasty lines down the trail, but is it possible for either of these bikes to do both that and be poppy at slower speeds? I realize I may be asking for a unicorn.
Any input is appreciated! That Tang colored Rail is hot!
Been riding my Rascal for a couple of weeks now. I live in Austin and typically ride Brushy creek. What I can say about the CBF is that it is pretty amazing. My Rascal is 2# heavier then my Following was but it pedals like it's much lighter then my Following was. So if the Rail pedals the same way I'd say go for it. When pedaling the Rascal on the flat sections it just goes and has almost zero pedal bob. It's much faster then my Following was. It's just as poppy and playful as my Following was without the drawbacks of single pivot. The traction is amazing also. When it comes to Centex rocky chunk this bike is amazing it easily gets over the ledges and chunk. The suspension is firm but not harsh and once the rear shock is broken in and set up properly the bike tracks amazingly well. The Rascal climbs way better then the Following even with the fork set to 150mm. For me this is the perfect bike for Centex trails. And yes I like the Tang orange wish that color was available for the Rascal, I got the Sedona Red (NOT UT ORANGE!).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,134 Posts
I know that everyone here and the pro reviews talk about how well the Rail pedals. But, is this just relative to the 165mm travel or is it really that much better than other bike designs?
I rode the Rail for four days in Moab earlier this fall (it was a Revel demo bike I borrowed for one of our Chasing Epic trips), my daily driver is a Guerrilla Gravity Trail Pistola but I've also had significant time on a Forbidden Druid, Ibis Ripley, Ibis Ripmo and GG Smash this year as well. IMO, the Rail pedals "OK".... nowhere near the other bikes I typically ride. It's a bike that's designed to get you to the top so you can rip the descents, which it does quite well. I was hitting drops and lines on the Whole Enchilada, at speeds that I shouldn't have been going, while riding the Rail. It could be a great compliment to your Ripley if you don't mind climbing at a much slower pace, or putting a lot more energy into it if you expect to climb at a similar speed.

Oh, and here are some shots from yesterday of my buddy's son ripping on the Rascal (also a demo from Revel).

PinewoodRevel-1.jpg

PinewoodRevel-3.jpg

PinewoodRevel-4.jpg
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6 Posts
CBF is LEGIT ... Rascal or Ranger?

I demoed a Rascal GX build over approx. 50 miles... mostly along blue/green trails, but did a bit, ie 5-10 miles of technical black trail. Unfortunately, a winter snowstorm hit and I wasn’t able to test it out on the most technically challenging trails in our area; ie ledgy, steppy, steep shenanigans.

In short, this bike is next-level efficient.

reference ‘points’: I’ve spent the majority of my time over the last 4 years on an SB4.5... and then more recently, ie the last few months, on an Element Carbon 90 (‘19)

I have been interested in the Ranger since it came out and really didn’t consider the Rascal because I figured it was ‘a bit more bike’ than I needed/want... however, now I don’t know if I want a Rascal or a Ranger... my LBS isn’t getting Rangers until next April and I’m sure their current stock of Rascals will be gone by then... solid 1st world problem.

Consider this: I got some PRs on a Rascal with a GX build and my current stead is a friggin’ Element C90 with a dropper. Granted, I’ll probably never stand on a podium, and sure for XC type stuff the Element’s top end would be faster, but it is amazing the Rascal could be that fast uphill, esp. considering the difference in the builds between these two bikes, ie weight (7 lb-ish difference?), etc.

conclusion: CBF is the fah-shizzle-nizzle, bizzle

Question: how (well) would an oval chainring work with CBF... I have seen that some ‘fellas’ via this website are running such a setup, but just curious if one of the Canfield brothers or Revel has an “official” position on using an oval with CBF... btw, I started using an oval on my Element recently and this Rascal felt similar... ie smooth through more techy uphills

ps: pretty sure my @$$ would prefer 50 miles off-road on a Revel as opposed to an Element

Pps: not considering a Rail because my LBS doesn’t have any and I want to get faster going up... but more the former than the latter

pPps: thanks to the Canfield brother that came up with this & cheers to the Revel dude for licensing it and producing these bizzzikes—& discussing it btw in the Worldwide Cyclery video(s)... cheers for improving MTBs... hats off to you my friends
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6 Posts
CBF is LEGIT ... Rascal or Ranger?

I demoed a Rascal GX build over approx. 50 miles... mostly along blue/green trails, but did a bit, ie 5-10 miles of technical black trail. Unfortunately, a winter snowstorm hit and I wasn’t able to test it out on the most technically challenging trails in our area; ie ledgy, steppy, steep shenanigans.

In short, this bike is next-level efficient.

reference ‘points’: I’ve spent the majority of my time over the last 4 years on an SB4.5... and then more recently, ie the last few months, on an Element Carbon 90 (‘19)

I have been interested in the Ranger since it came out and really didn’t consider the Rascal because I figured it was ‘a bit more bike’ than I needed/want... however, now I don’t know if I want a Rascal or a Ranger... my LBS isn’t getting Rangers until next April and I’m sure their current stock of Rascals will be gone by then... solid 1st world problem.

Consider this: I got some PRs on a Rascal with a GX build and my current stead is a friggin’ Element C90 with a dropper. Granted, I’ll probably never stand on a podium, and sure for XC type stuff the Element’s top end would be faster, but it is amazing the Rascal could be that fast uphill, esp. considering the difference in the builds between these two bikes, ie weight (7 lb-ish difference?), etc.

conclusion: CBF is the fah-shizzle-nizzle, bizzle

Question: how (well) would an oval chainring work with CBF... I have seen that some ‘fellas’ via this website are running such a setup, but just curious if one of the Canfield brothers or Revel has an “official” position on using an oval with CBF... btw, I started using an oval on my Element recently and this Rascal felt similar... ie smooth through more techy uphills

ps: pretty sure my @$$ would prefer 50 miles off-road on a Revel as opposed to an Element

Pps: not considering a Rail because my LBS doesn’t have any and I want to get faster going up... but more the former than the latter

pPps: thanks to the Canfield brother that came up with this & cheers to the Revel dude for licensing it and producing these bizzzikes—& discussing it btw in the Worldwide Cyclery video(s)... cheers for improving MTBs... hats off to you my friends

PpPps: anyone in the market for a 2019 Rocky Mountain Element C90 with some upgrades?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
260 Posts
I have one substantial ride on the fork up at The Shed in Maryland. Worked great. Very smooth and I liked the mid stroke hitch they talk about.

I haven’t ridden the Push. The Ripley isn’t as progressive as Rascal so I think the Storia could work great. I hear some noise sometimes but really not much. Not from the HBC but the check valve on the pedal stroke. A slight click which isn’t noticeable really when riding.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
My second ride with the Push ElevenSix was at the Shed ironically enough. It was great there. During COVID I’ve packed on a solid 20lbs since getting the push. Long story short, it’s time to upgrade to the 475 coil over my current 450. I have hit the bumper quite a few times but it really doesn’t make much noise. My main issue right now being at the top end of the 450 coil is that it sits very low in the travel on climbs. Almost to the bumper to be exact. I’m excited to see how things look once I get the 475 this week.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,054 Posts
I demoed a Rascal GX build over approx. 50 miles... mostly along blue/green trails, but did a bit, ie 5-10 miles of technical black trail. Unfortunately, a winter snowstorm hit and I wasn’t able to test it out on the most technically challenging trails in our area; ie ledgy, steppy, steep shenanigans.

In short, this bike is next-level efficient.

reference ‘points’: I’ve spent the majority of my time over the last 4 years on an SB4.5... and then more recently, ie the last few months, on an Element Carbon 90 (‘19)

I have been interested in the Ranger since it came out and really didn’t consider the Rascal because I figured it was ‘a bit more bike’ than I needed/want... however, now I don’t know if I want a Rascal or a Ranger... my LBS isn’t getting Rangers until next April and I’m sure their current stock of Rascals will be gone by then... solid 1st world problem.

Consider this: I got some PRs on a Rascal with a GX build and my current stead is a friggin’ Element C90 with a dropper. Granted, I’ll probably never stand on a podium, and sure for XC type stuff the Element’s top end would be faster, but it is amazing the Rascal could be that fast uphill, esp. considering the difference in the builds between these two bikes, ie weight (7 lb-ish difference?), etc.

conclusion: CBF is the fah-shizzle-nizzle, bizzle

Question: how (well) would an oval chainring work with CBF... I have seen that some ‘fellas’ via this website are running such a setup, but just curious if one of the Canfield brothers or Revel has an “official” position on using an oval with CBF... btw, I started using an oval on my Element recently and this Rascal felt similar... ie smooth through more techy uphills

ps: pretty sure my @$$ would prefer 50 miles off-road on a Revel as opposed to an Element

Pps: not considering a Rail because my LBS doesn’t have any and I want to get faster going up... but more the former than the latter

pPps: thanks to the Canfield brother that came up with this & cheers to the Revel dude for licensing it and producing these bizzzikes—& discussing it btw in the Worldwide Cyclery video(s)... cheers for improving MTBs... hats off to you my friends

PpPps: anyone in the market for a 2019 Rocky Mountain Element C90 with some upgrades?
When purchasing my Rascal I contacted Revel about using an oval chainring and the reply was "no problem". Currently running a Wolftooth 32t oval with no issues. One thing to consider about chainrings is that a bikes suspension is designed to work within a small range of chainring sizes. You don't want a chainring that sits too far below/above the main pivot as it affects the IC or in Revels case the CC. Rascal or Ranger? I don't think you can go wrong with either. If you want a do it all bike I think I would lean towards the Rascal because it would give you a little more travel for rowdier trails. If you race XC the Ranger would probably be a better fit. I just came off of an Evil Following V1 and the Rascal is a heavier bike then my Following was by about two pounds 30# vs 32#. The upside is that the rascal pedals so well it actually feels lighter than the Following. I've noticed that the Rascal maintains speed on the flats easier then the Following did, especially if you have a nice round pedal stroke (like a roadie). Yes the CBF is the real deal and performs exactly like advertised. You always hear so much hype about how great such and such a bike is especially from the big brands. The CBF is amazing in just about every way, it pedals and climbs efficiently and when the trail gets rough it performs amazingly. It doesn't hang up on ledges like my Following did which for me being in Centex is important. I have my Rascal at 130 rear 150 front and it doesn't feel like too much bike. I purchased my Rascal sight unseen with no demo and couldn't be happier with it. I think the only thing that would be better would be a high pivot like a Druid or Deviant. I considered a Druid but the idler pulley needs constant maintenance from what I've heard and I don't like a bike that is a maintenance hog I want ride my bike more then work on it. Also the Rascal was $500 cheaper for a frame and easier to acquire. Revel frames are an awesome value compared to other brands, their complete builds not so much.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
359 Posts
Question: how (well) would an oval chainring work with CBF... I have seen that some ‘fellas’ via this website are running such a setup, but just curious if one of the Canfield brothers or Revel has an “official” position on using an oval with CBF...


Ovals are fine. I have most my setups with an oval. I love them-
You won't feel anything different.

Running a front chainring that is up or down teeth- is only about 3-5% anti-Squat change from 100%

Also, remember that an oval pushes like a ring 2t bigger- So your 32t oval will feel like you are running a 34t ring.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,134 Posts
I think the only thing that would be better would be a high pivot like a Druid or Deviant. I considered a Druid but the idler pulley needs constant maintenance from what I've heard and I don't like a bike that is a maintenance hog
Totally random bump, but I have a Druid and IME thus far, the idler isn't any additional maintenance at all- I just make sure it's clean. It's a killer bike, the high pivot suspension design is definitely something you'll see more widespread in the coming years. That said, the Rascal is an awesome bike as well, enjoy!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
37 Posts
Put a deposit on a rascal at ranch camp in stowe, vt. I'm in Massachusetts so have quite a drive but I'm checking it out Thursday. If I can demo it, I will but trails may not be suitable. Got a sweet deal on a demo that has only seen about a month of use and looks more or less new.

Really excited about some of the vt folks talking about this being a new england trail bike. I really want something more modern, but I hate having to hike up tight switchbacks and weird tech climbs. As much as I wanna be slamming the downhills all the time, I've been taking a new appreciation for the uppy-downy trails central mass has to offer and I want a bike that is going to work with me.

Hoping the geo and sizing agrees with me. It is a large. I'm a hair under 5'10 and have a positive ape index and a 33 inch inseam. I'm mostly concerned about seat angle and maybe stack. I like having my grips more or less level with my seat but sometimes that's hard. I also always slam my seat forward to get a good seat angle and I end up with a too small cockpit seated. Luckily the ett on this bike is kind of long for a large. Either way, looking forward to it and will report back when I get some real riding in. Hoping to make it out to the better drained trails on cape this weekend and maybe hit up pine hills for my new England locals.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
260 Posts
Put a deposit on a rascal at ranch camp in stowe, vt. I'm in Massachusetts so have quite a drive but I'm checking it out Thursday. If I can demo it, I will but trails may not be suitable. Got a sweet deal on a demo that has only seen about a month of use and looks more or less new.

Really excited about some of the vt folks talking about this being a new england trail bike. I really want something more modern, but I hate having to hike up tight switchbacks and weird tech climbs. As much as I wanna be slamming the downhills all the time, I've been taking a new appreciation for the uppy-downy trails central mass has to offer and I want a bike that is going to work with me.

Hoping the geo and sizing agrees with me. It is a large. I'm a hair under 5'10 and have a positive ape index and a 33 inch inseam. I'm mostly concerned about seat angle and maybe stack. I like having my grips more or less level with my seat but sometimes that's hard. I also always slam my seat forward to get a good seat angle and I end up with a too small cockpit seated. Luckily the ett on this bike is kind of long for a large. Either way, looking forward to it and will report back when I get some real riding in. Hoping to make it out to the better drained trails on cape this weekend and maybe hit up pine hills for my new England locals.
Does Ranch Camp have Rascals and Rails in stock? As in just the frames? Or are you referring to the demo bike only?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
37 Posts
Does Ranch Camp have Rascals and Rails in stock? As in just the frames? Or are you referring to the demo bike only?
I have no idea what else they have there. I sent them a message asking what of their demo fleet they were selling because I missed an sb130 they had for sale and they mentioned they had a rascal demo for sale etc. Not sure if they have any other revel stock or not.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
20 Posts
I have no idea what else they have there. I sent them a message asking what of their demo fleet they were selling because I missed an sb130 they had for sale and they mentioned they had a rascal demo for sale etc. Not sure if they have any other revel stock or not.
I would be surprised if they have any new Rascals in stock. I ordered one from Ranch Camp in September, and am still waiting on the bike from Revel.
 

·
mosstrooper
Joined
·
164 Posts
Really excited about some of the vt folks talking about this being a new england trail bike. I really want something more modern, but I hate having to hike up tight switchbacks and weird tech climbs. As much as I wanna be slamming the downhills all the time, I've been taking a new appreciation for the uppy-downy trails central mass has to offer and I want a bike that is going to work with me.
100% this! The Rascal really is the NE trail bike I've been looking for and hadn't found until now. It's partly geometry but mostly suspension, I think. Helpful to have a slightly more moderated HTA (not super slack) and STA (not super steep) to make pedaling hard over more rolling terrain and steering through tight trees manageable, but with a modern long reach to keep things calm at high speeds. The biggest single piece of the geometry puzzle, I think, is how the front end combines a long-offset (51mm) fork with a relatively low stack and long reach -- it feels very precise and direct in the steering whether you're going 2mph through jumbly flat-tech or maching down steeps. I did go up 10mm in bar rise from what I typically run to adjust for the stack.

I've got so many thoughts about why CBF works particularly well with the technical roots and rocks of VT/NH but I think what it boils down to, in practice, is that it climbs far better over technical terrain than any other suspension linkage I've ridden. CBF finds traction on steep, off-camber or wet ground where any other bike would be skipping around and deflecting. Descending, I would have a harder time differentiating it from other dual-link designs but it seems particularly impressive in small-bump chatter and staying planted in techy corners. I was still swapping around shocks and playing with settings this fall, and might end up going to a coil on the Rascal next year if I can get a Ranger built up. Lots to dial in to get the CBF working perfectly, but even with the stock, factory-tuned, not-so-adjustable SuperDeluxe, the Rascal was phenomenal.

Congrats on the incoming new bike! Hope you get to do some winter riding at Pine Hills, that's a fun spot.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
359 Posts
100% this! The Rascal really is the NE trail bike I've been looking for and hadn't found until now. It's partly geometry but mostly suspension, I think. Helpful to have a slightly more moderated HTA (not super slack) and STA (not super steep) to make pedaling hard over more rolling terrain and steering through tight trees manageable, but with a modern long reach to keep things calm at high speeds. The biggest single piece of the geometry puzzle, I think, is how the front end combines a long-offset (51mm) fork with a relatively low stack and long reach -- it feels very precise and direct in the steering whether you're going 2mph through jumbly flat-tech or maching down steeps. I did go up 10mm in bar rise from what I typically run to adjust for the stack.

I've got so many thoughts about why CBF works particularly well with the technical roots and rocks of VT/NH but I think what it boils down to, in practice, is that it climbs far better over technical terrain than any other suspension linkage I've ridden. CBF finds traction on steep, off-camber or wet ground where any other bike would be skipping around and deflecting. Descending, I would have a harder time differentiating it from other dual-link designs but it seems particularly impressive in small-bump chatter and staying planted in techy corners. I was still swapping around shocks and playing with settings this fall, and might end up going to a coil on the Rascal next year if I can get a Ranger built up. Lots to dial in to get the CBF working perfectly, but even with the stock, factory-tuned, not-so-adjustable SuperDeluxe, the Rascal was phenomenal.

Congrats on the incoming new bike! Hope you get to do some winter riding at Pine Hills, that's a fun spot.
Right On! Love hearing this. Note: I'm always down to chat about the how and why it does what it does.
 

·
mosstrooper
Joined
·
164 Posts
Right On! Love hearing this. Note: I'm always down to chat about the how and why it does what it does.
Truly grateful to be riding your suspension design Chris, I couldn't be more stoked on how CBF works on my local terrain!

Since you're kind enough to offer, I'd love to hear your thoughts on why CBF is so phenomenal for East Coast tech riding and what portions of the design contribute the most to the fantastic climbing traction. I've watched the video you did with Worldwide Cyclery at the Revel HQ, and read some articles about CBF, but not being an engineer/suspension guy I'm admittedly pretty lost in all the terminology. Is it the axle path that's most important, or does the climbing performance have more to do with how the anti-squat is tuned? And on descents, what is it about CBF that keeps the bike so calm and controlled in successive chatter, and can keep the rear wheel planted without making it feel dead or over-damped?

And, as a Rascal owner who will likely get a Ranger in the coming year, I'd be curious to hear your thoughts on what it was like to apply the CBF design to all three different Revel platforms. What should folks know about the differences in linkage design that you engineered into the Rail/Rascal/Ranger?

Cheers and happy 2021!!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
359 Posts
Well,
CBF doesn't care where you ride. It's good everywhere. No other system targets the Instant Center- throughout travel.
The good ones hit the "IC" on sag if they are setup perfect. But CBF ALWAYS points at the "IC". It does this by what is in the claims of the patent. The Center of Curvature being placed on the top of the chainring.

I know, I know. No one has a clue what the F any of the IC or CC stuff is.
Well-
Instant Center- is the balance point for pedaling.
Center of Curvature- the center of the wheel path (real pivot point)

Top of the chain- is your line of force. If it doesn't point at the "IC"- it will pull up are down on the shock. (anti-squat, pro-squat)

By bending or pivoting over the chain ring-(what is protected by CBF) It allows me to point the chain at the "IC"- which is moving up and down in front of the ring.

Picture a TEETOR-TOTTER
One side is the wheel. The other side is the "IC". The board is the chain- which pivots over the ring.

The beautiful thing is - the chain and suspension rotate in the same spot. So, they don't fight each other when the wheel moves thru travel. They move together in harmony.

NOTE:
Don't be fooled by the haters that think that a Single Pivot can match this. If they could, no one would ride a multi-link.
But, pedaling efficiency and braking efficiency are crap on Single pivots. (pedal bob and brake jack are real.) Just because the computer programs say so, doesn't mean the computer is right.
 
261 - 280 of 315 Posts
Top