I have noticed this on my Deus crankset as well. I only notice it once in a while while turning the crank by hand in the workstand (lubing chain,etc). I cant feel any difference when riding, and the stiffness of this new design is awesome. Keep the crank bolt tight or put loctite on it. The crank bolt loosening a bit during long rides was the only weird thing I have experienced.
Resistance/Binding in RF Deus X-Type Cranks
I installed Race Face Deus X-Type cranks on my wife's bike several weeks ago and she's logged over 200 miles. The other night while doing some routine maintenance I noticed that her cranks still have some resistance through the rotation/travel of the crank with some spots being worse than others. With atleast half of her miles being road miles, with the higher rpms, I would've thought that the bearings would have seated by now and that everything would be silky smooth.
Is this typical? Any hints or suggestions? With this being my first intallation of a 2 piece crank, I wouldn't be surprised if it was a result of poor installation. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Is this typical? Any hints or suggestions? With this being my first intallation of a 2 piece crank, I wouldn't be surprised if it was a result of poor installation. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
1 - 20 of 23 Posts
Mine have been smooth as butter from day one. The fit of the axle to the bearing was so precise i was wondering how much out of tolerance a shell could before the axle would not go through. What frame was this installed in and was the BB shell faced and chased?CrashTheDOG said:I installed Race Face Deus X-Type cranks on my wife's bike several weeks ago and she's logged over 200 miles. The other night while doing some routine maintenance I noticed that her cranks still have some resistance through the rotation/travel of the crank with some spots being worse than others. With atleast half of her miles being road miles, with the higher rpms, I would've thought that the bearings would have seated by now and that everything would be silky smooth.
Is this typical? Any hints or suggestions? With this being my first intallation of a 2 piece crank, I wouldn't be surprised if it was a result of poor installation. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
my crankset was installed on a Moots YBB; freshly refurbished by the Moots factory last winter. "Refurbished" means a fresh bead-blast, new decals, etc; essentially it comes back to the owners looking BRAND NEW. The resistance I have is only very slight, and I am not concerned by it all all.
gkd, thanks! I'll keep my eye on the crank bolts.
The crank is on a Turner XCE and the BB shell was faced and chased.Ratt said:What frame was this installed in and was the BB shell faced and chased?
Hmm. I'd think with the amount of energy and stress that is transfered through a crank assembly, particularly the BB, you'd want it to be smooth as silk. I'm no expert but I'd be willing to bet that any resistance will eventually turn into failed bearings and/or a scarred spindle.gkd said:The resistance I have is only very slight, and I am not concerned by it all all.
I installed my new Atlas cranks on Wednesday and took my Heckler for a 25 mile ride last night. I was alittle worried about the resistance/binding after I initially set them up. I figured that it had to do with the new chain, cogset, and freshly serviced/rebuilt CK hubs that caused the drag. After test riding the bike Wednesday night and after putting 25 miles on them last night, the cranks run smooth and buttery.
They are definately better than the Next LP's I was running.
They are definately better than the Next LP's I was running.
Hey Crash,
I just saw this thread since I've put around 100 or more miles on my Deus crankset and just found out today that my BB is toast
It was buttery smooth up until last week when I noticed that what I thought were bent chainrings, turned out to be a loose bb on the drive side. Tightened it up and it progressively got worse until this morning it was coming undone every 10 mins. I took into the shop this morning and he removed the cups and the knurles were starting to flatten out. They're going to send it in for warrantly replacement and put my old XT Hollowtechs back on.
Just thought I'd let you know. I checked through the reviews here and it seems that we're not the only ones having issues. I hope its nothing for you though.
Cheers,
Kristina
I just saw this thread since I've put around 100 or more miles on my Deus crankset and just found out today that my BB is toast
It was buttery smooth up until last week when I noticed that what I thought were bent chainrings, turned out to be a loose bb on the drive side. Tightened it up and it progressively got worse until this morning it was coming undone every 10 mins. I took into the shop this morning and he removed the cups and the knurles were starting to flatten out. They're going to send it in for warrantly replacement and put my old XT Hollowtechs back on.
Just thought I'd let you know. I checked through the reviews here and it seems that we're not the only ones having issues. I hope its nothing for you though.
Cheers,
Kristina
Had some problems......
until i removed one of the spacers on the drive side. I set up the new diabolous x-types. the had a bunch of drag that worried me. my bb shell is a 73mm so i followed the directions for that size! but as i turned the cranks by hand, it was tight and restricted...i removed a 1mm spacer drive side and this made a noticeable difference. but was still tight feeling compared to all my older cranks i`ve used. a reliable source had told me he had heard that the new x-types were tight feeling all together and would loosen with time. with your wife having logged 200 miles you should have noticed an improvement. i`d recheck the intructions and try their alternate options #1 & #2in the trouble shooting guide section of your directions. also consider your adjustments or measurements for the bb shell itself. ie: how old it is and if it was chased and faced any number of times b4? if the bb shell width tolerance after milling is within the recomended range. it sounds as though your setup is compressing the cups too much when the crank bolt is fully seated.....after quite a few miles on my diabolous i`m quite happy with it`s performance. the feel is altogether different when cranking by hand during maintenance. I wish you luck with your problem................ghost
until i removed one of the spacers on the drive side. I set up the new diabolous x-types. the had a bunch of drag that worried me. my bb shell is a 73mm so i followed the directions for that size! but as i turned the cranks by hand, it was tight and restricted...i removed a 1mm spacer drive side and this made a noticeable difference. but was still tight feeling compared to all my older cranks i`ve used. a reliable source had told me he had heard that the new x-types were tight feeling all together and would loosen with time. with your wife having logged 200 miles you should have noticed an improvement. i`d recheck the intructions and try their alternate options #1 & #2in the trouble shooting guide section of your directions. also consider your adjustments or measurements for the bb shell itself. ie: how old it is and if it was chased and faced any number of times b4? if the bb shell width tolerance after milling is within the recomended range. it sounds as though your setup is compressing the cups too much when the crank bolt is fully seated.....after quite a few miles on my diabolous i`m quite happy with it`s performance. the feel is altogether different when cranking by hand during maintenance. I wish you luck with your problem................ghost
It's a sad story... I'v installed appropiately the Deus, and felt immediately resistance. Will go away, I thought initially.
then, after some 200, 400km, 450 and 600km, the drive side crank came loose, I had to apply some medium loctite to avoid the loosening of the thing.
Now I almost have 800km, and the resistance is even worse, remove the chain, turn the thing, and in two turns it halts. At some points the is a kind of strange noice comming out...
Is there a way to open up the thing to put some other grease in it ? Is there another solution than to put the thing in the rubbish bin ?
then, after some 200, 400km, 450 and 600km, the drive side crank came loose, I had to apply some medium loctite to avoid the loosening of the thing.
Now I almost have 800km, and the resistance is even worse, remove the chain, turn the thing, and in two turns it halts. At some points the is a kind of strange noice comming out...
Is there a way to open up the thing to put some other grease in it ? Is there another solution than to put the thing in the rubbish bin ?
same symptoms
Thanks.
Hi Crash. Recognize you from the Turner board. I just noticed last night that I have the exact same issue. Bike is a month old, ride about 3x / week. I think things were fine when the bike was new, but now BB binds slightly every half turn. Cranks not installed by me. Was assured by vendor before sale that BB shell would be faced and chased. (He said Turner sent the frames already prepped. True or BS?) Have not started dismantling yet, but wondering if you were able to resolve the problem and how.CrashTheDOG said:I installed Race Face Deus X-Type cranks on my wife's bike several weeks ago and she's logged over 200 miles. The other night while doing some routine maintenance I noticed that her cranks still have some resistance through the rotation/travel of the crank with some spots being worse than others.
Thanks.
Face it
It is realy important to face the bb shell with those cranks.
It is realy important to face the bb shell with those cranks.
I called Race Face, directly, and was told facing was manditory. I called Truvativ about ISIS BB's & was told it was a good idea to have my frame faced for ISIS as well.Johnny Hair Boy said:It is realy important to face the bb shell with those cranks.
Here's the latest and greatest...qcanoe said:Hi Crash. Recognize you from the Turner board. I just noticed last night that I have the exact same issue. Bike is a month old, ride about 3x / week. I think things were fine when the bike was new, but now BB binds slightly every half turn. Cranks not installed by me. Was assured by vendor before sale that BB shell would be faced and chased. (He said Turner sent the frames already prepped. True or BS?) Have not started dismantling yet, but wondering if you were able to resolve the problem and how.
Thanks.
The initial binding apperantly was a result of over tightening. After loosened things up a bit the play went away but then the drive-side crank arm developed some play. So I grabbed the torque wrench and threw ~40 lb/ft on the bolt and so far so good. I'm going to install a new set of Atlas cranks on my Spot over the weekend and hopefully everything will go smoothly. I'll let you guys know.
Better, But Something Is Still Not Quite Right
Crash: Your fix worked for me, sort of. I loosened the RH arm and now the binding problem is MUCH better (but not entirely gone), with no apparent play anywhere after a 2-hour ride. Naturally (?) it wasn't enough simply to loosen the crank bolt. I had to use the puller cap to back the arm off the spindle a tiny hair, then re-tighten the crank bolt. But see below.
Still waiting to get hold of the lockring tool and a torque wrench to do a proper inspection of what's going on. Meanwhile I've generated more questions.:
1) I had to put what seemed like an unreasonable amount of torque into the puller cap to get it to move the crank arm. I was actually a bit nervous that I was about to damage the threads, so I didn't try to pull the arm all the way off. Is this normal? Am I using the puller cap correctly? (Instruction manual provides no guidance here.) It LOOKS like the inside of puller cap head has to bear against the head of the crank bolt as the cap is tightened, in order to push the crank arm off the spindle. (Obviously the crank bolt has to be loose to begin with, or you'll just strip the puller cap threads.) If you were to take the crank bolt out entirely before trying to pull the crank, it looks like the bottom of the puller cap would just collide against an internal part of the crank arm itself (not the spindle) and do nothing. Am I missing something here?
2) When I re-tightened the crank arm with what seemed like a modest amount of torque I just ended up back where I had been. It was only when I left the crank bolt at a "barely snug" point (that felt too loose to me) that I got the bearings to free up significantly. This feels wrong to me.
3) Even though the crank turns much more freely now, I can still barely feel and hear a little "brushing" spot every 180 degrees. It's not rough and bumpy; just noticeably less quiet and smooth than the rest of the circle. This also feels wrong to me. I would think that when I spin the spindle on my BB it should feel just as silky smooth and even all the way around as do the axles on my hubs. Can this be from grit in the outer seals somewhere? If so, how do I clean? (Since everything is still pretty new, I want to take action now if there is warranty work to be done.)
To those who have responded saying the shell needs to be faced and chased: Thanks. I know that. The question in my original post was whether the claim made by the folks who built up my bike was true, namely that Turner does a complete face-and-chase at the factory before shipping the frames. (Meaning that the shop doesn't need to worry about it.)CrashTheDOG said:The initial binding apperantly was a result of over tightening. After loosened things up a bit the play went away but then the drive-side crank arm developed some play. So I grabbed the torque wrench and threw ~40 lb/ft on the bolt and so far so good.
Crash: Your fix worked for me, sort of. I loosened the RH arm and now the binding problem is MUCH better (but not entirely gone), with no apparent play anywhere after a 2-hour ride. Naturally (?) it wasn't enough simply to loosen the crank bolt. I had to use the puller cap to back the arm off the spindle a tiny hair, then re-tighten the crank bolt. But see below.
Still waiting to get hold of the lockring tool and a torque wrench to do a proper inspection of what's going on. Meanwhile I've generated more questions.:
1) I had to put what seemed like an unreasonable amount of torque into the puller cap to get it to move the crank arm. I was actually a bit nervous that I was about to damage the threads, so I didn't try to pull the arm all the way off. Is this normal? Am I using the puller cap correctly? (Instruction manual provides no guidance here.) It LOOKS like the inside of puller cap head has to bear against the head of the crank bolt as the cap is tightened, in order to push the crank arm off the spindle. (Obviously the crank bolt has to be loose to begin with, or you'll just strip the puller cap threads.) If you were to take the crank bolt out entirely before trying to pull the crank, it looks like the bottom of the puller cap would just collide against an internal part of the crank arm itself (not the spindle) and do nothing. Am I missing something here?
2) When I re-tightened the crank arm with what seemed like a modest amount of torque I just ended up back where I had been. It was only when I left the crank bolt at a "barely snug" point (that felt too loose to me) that I got the bearings to free up significantly. This feels wrong to me.
3) Even though the crank turns much more freely now, I can still barely feel and hear a little "brushing" spot every 180 degrees. It's not rough and bumpy; just noticeably less quiet and smooth than the rest of the circle. This also feels wrong to me. I would think that when I spin the spindle on my BB it should feel just as silky smooth and even all the way around as do the axles on my hubs. Can this be from grit in the outer seals somewhere? If so, how do I clean? (Since everything is still pretty new, I want to take action now if there is warranty work to be done.)
Hey guys.
Do I need to get my frame chased and faced even if my bike is pretty new and is a pre built bike?!
i have a Giant XTC, with Deus cranks on the way. Do I need to prep my frame at all? Or will cleaning it really well just be good enough?!
Thanks.
I'm hopeing i don't have to get it faced and chased, as that will cost me a heap!
Do I need to get my frame chased and faced even if my bike is pretty new and is a pre built bike?!
i have a Giant XTC, with Deus cranks on the way. Do I need to prep my frame at all? Or will cleaning it really well just be good enough?!
Thanks.
I'm hopeing i don't have to get it faced and chased, as that will cost me a heap!
I think it would be a good idea to have it prep'd to be certain it is correct.bike_freak said:Hey guys.
Do I need to get my frame chased and faced even if my bike is pretty new and is a pre built bike?!
i have a Giant XTC, with Deus cranks on the way. Do I need to prep my frame at all? Or will cleaning it really well just be good enough?!
Thanks.
I'm hopeing i don't have to get it faced and chased, as that will cost me a heap!
"Cost a heap" - Well I called around and the most expensive LBS wanted $20 to face my BB - not sure where you are shopping???
Maybe I'm misunderstanding your description here, but it sounds like you are pulling the crank incorrectly. When you put the crank on, you tighten the inner (8mm) crank bolt until the crank bottoms out against the stop. Then you tighten the outer cap (10mm, reverse thread). Then, if you need to remove the crank, you loosen the inner 8mm crank bolt and keep turning it until the crank comes off the spindle. ie: the crank bolt will loosen a little initially, then there will be resistance again as it backs out against the outer cap and pushes the arm off the spindle. You should NOT be turning the outer cap when pulling the crankarm.qcanoe said:1) I had to put what seemed like an unreasonable amount of torque into the puller cap to get it to move the crank arm. I was actually a bit nervous that I was about to damage the threads, so I didn't try to pull the arm all the way off. Is this normal? Am I using the puller cap correctly? (Instruction manual provides no guidance here.) It LOOKS like the inside of puller cap head has to bear against the head of the crank bolt as the cap is tightened, in order to push the crank arm off the spindle. (Obviously the crank bolt has to be loose to begin with, or you'll just strip the puller cap threads.) If you were to take the crank bolt out entirely before trying to pull the crank, it looks like the bottom of the puller cap would just collide against an internal part of the crank arm itself (not the spindle) and do nothing. Am I missing something here?
Larry Mettler
http://www.mtnhighcyclery.com
Thanks
This is exactly what I wanted to get clarified. (I.e., the cap doesn't work like the old-fashioned puller I had for my '70s road bike.) Thanks Larry.Ventanarama said:if you need to remove the crank, you loosen the inner 8mm crank bolt and keep turning it until the crank comes off the spindle. ie: the crank bolt will loosen a little initially, then there will be resistance again as it backs out against the outer cap and pushes the arm off the spindle. You should NOT be turning the outer cap when pulling the crankarm.
A question for those that have their Deuce cranks working good. Do they spin backwards freely? I have had the problem with the drive side crank coming loose. After they were tightened the new problem I have is that they do not seem to spin free, but they have not come loose. I also have devolped a creak that sounds like it is coming from the cranks. I read there was a tolerence issue with a small batch of cranks, has anyone confirmed this? Also any suggestions for adjusting my cranks? They were installed by a shop - twice.
Thanks
Thanks
Park Tool Instruction
Park Tool's website has a tech article on External Bearing Crankset System Installation and Removal. I haven't had a chance to read through it yet but thought it might be helpful to those of us having problems. I hoping to install my new RF Atlas cranks, thanks Larry, sometime this week and will let you all know how it went.
Park Tool's website has a tech article on External Bearing Crankset System Installation and Removal. I haven't had a chance to read through it yet but thought it might be helpful to those of us having problems. I hoping to install my new RF Atlas cranks, thanks Larry, sometime this week and will let you all know how it went.
1 - 20 of 23 Posts
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