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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Who has experience with Rene Herse Tires in BOTH Endurance and Superlight casing?

I have owned many sets of Compass / RH tires with the Superlight casings, and I love them. Utterly sublime ride. One of the few things where the fanatical hype is justified, IME.

I am wondering if the Endurance casing retains the ride quality of the Superlight casing.

I’m really just interested in experience from people who have time on both casings, preferably in a similar model.

Thanks!
 

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I can only say my Fleecer (55 mm) and Oracle (48 mm) with endurance casing tires have been great. The endurance casing was a must for where and how I ride (everything, about anywhere). They've done off road touring, single track, commuting and the 48s more faster riding.

Conti RaceKings get suggested a lot here and on supple, that was really evident switching from a 55 mm RaceKing to 55 mm Fleecer Ridge.

They are expensive and my pleasantly surprised experience with Bontrager GR1 easily about $30 each cheaper will have me reconsider the Hearse cost for that bike but for our Fargo and Sutra Ltd the bigger Hearse knobby tires have almost been weapons grade advantage for long lots of conditions rides.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 · (Edited)
I can only say my Fleecer (55 mm) and Oracle (48 mm) with endurance casing tires have been great. The endurance casing was a must for where and how I ride (everything, about anywhere). They've done off road touring, single track, commuting and the 48s more faster riding.

Conti RaceKings get suggested a lot here and on supple, that was really evident switching from a 55 mm RaceKing to 55 mm Fleecer Ridge.

They are expensive and my pleasantly surprised experience with Bontrager GR1 easily about $30 each cheaper will have me reconsider the Hearse cost for that bike but for our Fargo and Sutra Ltd the bigger Hearse knobby tires have almost been weapons grade advantage for long lots of conditions rides.
Do you have experience with the Extralight casings for comparison?

I am actually looking at another set of slicks. I've had a few sets of Barlow Pass 38mm ELs. Never damaged them on gravel. Main reason I am looking at a different casing is that after about a year, the tires keep leaking air through the sidewalls, even with sealant refreshed. Frustrating because there is still plenty of tread left. Thought the Endurance Casing might be better, but if the ride quality suffers, I may just go back to tubes (I seldom ever flatted).
 

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Do you have experience with the Extralight casings for comparison?

I am actually looking at another set of slicks. I've had a few sets of Barlow Pass 38mm ELs. Never damaged them on gravel. Main reason I am looking at a different casing is that after about a year, the tires keep leaking air through the sidewalls, even with sealant refreshed. Frustrating because there is still plenty of tread left. Thought the Endurance Casing might be better, but if the ride quality suffers, I may just go back to tubes (I seldom ever flatted).
Sorry, no. I swore off all tires without some reinforcement after finding ones with better casings that ride well. Close associates who sell these consider the lightweights for racing and not the everywhere/anything riding.

Keep this in mind. I've had that leaking through sidewalls with heavy duty tires too if there's not a whole lot of rubber, and your sealant plus working it makes a difference. The Panaracer sealant is a bit of a different animal and while more of a mess than the Bontrager I use a lot of, those crushed nut shell particles and sticky rubber sometimes seal the best. Even with Bontrager that doesn't require as much cleaning out the tire and some time spinning the tires sideways can seal those occasional leaky tires better.

I also point out this attention to sidewalls and sealant stuff because tire brands I've thought not so prone to the wet and leaky sidewalls have had that on some tires.

Two recent instances are keeping me tubeless. One glass I could not avoid, one glass I did not see. Both sealed up what would have been flat repairs at times and distances that would not have been fun. Those were not the RH tires. The two sets I have with endurance are truly supple and great riding tires. I hit off road stuff with enough rock and commute or travel with enough nasty stuff that I will not add tire f*ckry to my life when the endurance models are so nice.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 · (Edited)
Sorry, no. I swore off all tires without some reinforcement after finding ones with better casings that ride well. Close associates who sell these consider the lightweights for racing and not the everywhere/anything riding.

Keep this in mind. I've had that leaking through sidewalls with heavy duty tires too if there's not a whole lot of rubber, and your sealant plus working it makes a difference. The Panaracer sealant is a bit of a different animal and while more of a mess than the Bontrager I use a lot of, those crushed nut shell particles and sticky rubber sometimes seal the best. Even with Bontrager that doesn't require as much cleaning out the tire and some time spinning the tires sideways can seal those occasional leaky tires better.

I also point out this attention to sidewalls and sealant stuff because tire brands I've thought not so prone to the wet and leaky sidewalls have had that on some tires.

Two recent instances are keeping me tubeless. One glass I could not avoid, one glass I did not see. Both sealed up what would have been flat repairs at times and distances that would not have been fun. Those were not the RH tires. The two sets I have with endurance are truly supple and great riding tires. I hit off road stuff with enough rock and commute or travel with enough nasty stuff that I will not add tire f*ckry to my life when the endurance models are so nice.
Hmm, I am using Orange Seal (that is what RH used to recommend). I might try the Panaracer stuff, which is what I see they now recommend.

I've been running EL casings for 6 years for all my paved and gravel riding. I've never damaged a tire.
 

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Hmm, I am using Orange Seal (that is what RH used to recommend). I might try the Panaracer stuff, which is what I see they now recommend.

I've been running EL casings for 6 years for all my paved and gravel riding. I've never damaged a tire.
I gave the Panaracer stuff a try when I bought my 1st set of Rene, it just awful and useless stuff! Its thick and didn't seal a small cut in my Oracle Ridge! I cleaned that junk out and went back to good all Stans. I've had zero weeping from sidewalls
 

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I haven't tried RH tires since my Snoqualmie Pass tires were warrantied and then blew up in my ear and caused permanent hearing damage, but I read in a similar thread thar the endurance casing is pretty much the regular gravelking casing in a different size for twice the price.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
but I read in a similar thread thar the endurance casing is pretty much the regular gravelking casing in a different size for twice the price.
I would take that with a grain of salt.

Some form of the "Compass / Rene Herse tires are just rebranded Gravel Kings" theory is always popping up.
People seem to think they have learned some dirty secret when they discover
that Panaracer makes RH tires (despite Jen always talking freely about it ), and then start positing all sorts of unsubstatiated nonsense.

Haters gonna hate.
 

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I would take that with a grain of salt.

Some form of the "Compass / Rene Herse tires are just rebranded Gravel Kings" theory is always popping up.
People seem to think they have learned some dirty secret when they discover
that Panaracer makes RH tires (despite Jen always talking freely about it ), and then start positing all sorts of unsubstatiated nonsense.

Haters gonna hate.
I don't really think it is haters. I think people realize that RH tires don't really offer anything more than a Gravelking performance wise and they cost more than double. Maybe they are made with higher end materials than a Gravelking, but there really is no noticeable performance difference. I've tried RH, Pacenti and Gravelkings which are all similar tires made by Panaracer and can tell no difference. It's not like you replace your Gravelkings with RH and you're suddenly setting PRs on every ride. A lot of RH fan boys base there love on the fact that "Jan said so" which isn't a valid way of determining how good a tire is. Jan also claims his knobby tires are as fast as road slicks and that sure is false, though I'll admit they are pretty fast for big knobbed tires.
 

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Ran 48mm Oracle Ridge and Specialized Pathfinder Pro 42mm on my Warbird this year. The Pathfinder is by far the fastest tire of the 2. I’m around 230 and can get away with 28psi on 25id rim with no issues. The Pathfinder are supple and roll fast! The Oracle’s just don’t roll like the Pathfinder and are almost double the price!!!
I think when they are cooked I’m gonna give Vitoria Mezcals a go, if they will fit. Vitoria has won me over with the Mezcal on my XC bike!
I ran Mezcal 2.6 front and Rekon 2.4 rear at Oramm this year and it was nearly perfect for me.
My XC single speed has been mostly Mezcal 2.6F/2.4R and they haven’t let me down on the rocks of PA
 

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I don't really think it is haters. I think people realize that RH tires don't really offer anything more than a Gravelking performance wise and they cost more than double. Maybe they are made with higher end materials than a Gravelking, but there really is no noticeable performance difference. I've tried RH, Pacenti and Gravelkings which are all similar tires made by Panaracer and can tell no difference. It's not like you replace your Gravelkings with RH and you're suddenly setting PRs on every ride. A lot of RH fan boys base there love on the fact that "Jan said so" which isn't a valid way of determining how good a tire is. Jan also claims his knobby tires are as fast as road slicks and that sure is false, though I'll admit they are pretty fast for big knobbed tires.
It would be a hard sell for me to consider the RH pricing for slick/herringbone tread but the knobby tires they have really are superb as an off road tourer or tough conditions tire that doesn't penalize you much on pavement and for long rides.

Ran 48mm Oracle Ridge and Specialized Pathfinder Pro 42mm on my Warbird this year. The Pathfinder is by far the fastest tire of the 2. I'm around 230 and can get away with 28psi on 25id rim with no issues. The Pathfinder are supple and roll fast! The Oracle's just don't roll like the Pathfinder and are almost double the price!!!
I think when they are cooked I'm gonna give Vitoria Mezcals a go, if they will fit. Vitoria has won me over with the Mezcal on my XC bike!
I ran Mezcal 2.6 front and Rekon 2.4 rear at Oramm this year and it was nearly perfect for me.
My XC single speed has been mostly Mezcal 2.6F/2.4R and they haven't let me down on the rocks of PA
I would guess several slick center tires would be faster on pavement and packed surfaces than the knobby Oracle Ridge tires, and no way were or are slick and smooth center tires good in challenging conditions like those knobby RH tires. My experience with the RH knobby tires is minimal performance hit when you are on smooth or easy surfaces compared to most for all they offer in challenging conditions.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Ran 48mm Oracle Ridge and Specialized Pathfinder Pro 42mm on my Warbird this year. The Pathfinder is by far the fastest tire of the 2. I'm around 230 and can get away with 28psi on 25id rim with no issues. The Pathfinder are supple and roll fast! The Oracle's just don't roll like the Pathfinder and are almost double the price!!!
I think when they are cooked I'm gonna give Vitoria Mezcals a go, if they will fit. Vitoria has won me over with the Mezcal on my XC bike!
I ran Mezcal 2.6 front and Rekon 2.4 rear at Oramm this year and it was nearly perfect for me.
My XC single speed has been mostly Mezcal 2.6F/2.4R and they haven't let me down on the rocks of PA
I'm not surprised that a semislick with a slick center would roll faster than a knobby tire. Which casing were you running in the Oracle Ridge?

I've actually looked at the pathfinder when considering a semi-knobby tire. But in the end I just stick with 38mm slicks for this bike.
 

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I have a bunch of both types, and frankly can't detect a difference in either ride quality or flat resistance. (I don't get many flats, and when I do it is usually a tube defect or pinch flat or something like that.) The one place where the Endurance Plus is superior is when you set them up tubeless. The sidewalls are much more amenable.

I've been using their recommended Panaracer sealant on those that I have set up tubeless.

For my 38mm Barlow Pass EL slicks, I just use tubes.

I also have 38mm Steilacooms, and the knobs only slow me down on pavement when climbing a slow steep hill, which is consistent with what Jan states. I find they are very helpful when climbing on loose gravel, which can make that small penalty worth it.
 

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I don't really think it is haters. I think people realize that RH tires don't really offer anything more than a Gravelking performance wise and they cost more than double. Maybe they are made with higher end materials than a Gravelking, but there really is no noticeable performance difference. I've tried RH, Pacenti and Gravelkings which are all similar tires made by Panaracer and can tell no difference. It's not like you replace your Gravelkings with RH and you're suddenly setting PRs on every ride. A lot of RH fan boys base there love on the fact that "Jan said so" which isn't a valid way of determining how good a tire is. Jan also claims his knobby tires are as fast as road slicks and that sure is false, though I'll admit they are pretty fast for big knobbed tires.
I never interpreted "rolls like a slick" same as your saying "as fast as road slicks" and actually don't care for a whole lot of what the guy sells or says, but the Fleecer and Oracle versions really do perform in their own league and are somewhat their own niche. Switching from racer type MTB tires to those upped the performance of same bikes across paved and unpaved conditions. They don't pack up like some tires mentioned here often, and they're very predictable with braking and traction where other popular tires are pure f*ckry.

Do they look stupid with other stuff the guy sells and talks up? Yes, but that's the way I feel about all sorts of retro design things. I'll take stupid looking tires where looking at them is minimal but please, I hope no one gets the idea to replace stainless trim appliances with avocado or bring back bell bottom pants.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Between this thread, another in a different forum, and reading elsewhere, the general consensus I am seeing (though not universal) from folks who have actually owned and ridden tires in both casings is that there is a difference in ride quality.

I suspect that some of the differences of opinion and experiences on the value of Compass/RH tires come down to whether folks have run the Superlight (vs Endurance) tires.

It is the Superlight models (the slicks in particular) that got Compass Tires the following they did. But the reality is that they have the downsides of a thin sidewall tire, and tubeless was for a long time not offered, then executed poorly, and now works, but my experience is that they still have long term issues that I will continue to try to work out.

For some folks (like me) the tradeoff has been worth it for the ride quality offered. For others (people wanting less expensive tires, or are hard on sidewalls) its not.

I think what happens is that some folks hear all the raving about the ride of RH tires, but the Superlight is not going to work for them, so they get the endurance casing. When they don’t experience the ride quality folks like me are talking about, they sour on the tires or the company. Fair enough, as many of the people recommending RH tires are not specifying which casing they’re talking about.

Then of course there are those who bag on the company becasue they think Jan a cheezy salesman, and are further rubbed the wrong way by what they see as a cult folllowing (which are in fact just people who like his tires).
category.

I am also getting out of this that if I am inclined to switch to the Endurance casing, it is worth also looking into other brands of 38-40mm slicks.
 
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