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No no...the OTHER LA.
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Normally I'm not too concerned with early registration for races, but you have to be in the first hundred to get a free jersey for the Tierra Torture. Each year is seems like that cutoff comes sooner than the last, so get on over to www.latierratorture.com and reserve your jersey soon! The design has evolved well over the years, but they are always nice and pretty decent quality.

It's a fun race, family friendly and you never know what the weather is going to do. What's not to like? :thumbsup:
 

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No no...the OTHER LA.
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Yup, racing aint cheap. T.T. is one of the best values out there ONLY if you do both days and get in the first 100. It would cost you ~ $50 just to get a jersey that nice.

After early registration, Socorro is $45 just for the XC race. Many of the other races are around $40. The fees required to put on a race are going up and the vast majority of the times most of any money they clear is given to different charities. Keep all this in mind.
 

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RichardinLA said:
The fees required to put on a race are going up and the vast majority of the times most of any money they clear is given to different charities. Keep all this in mind.
Don't forget that at least one of the races is for profit, a damn fine profit I would guess.
 

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Hey, wait up!
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greg de taos said:
Don't forget that at least one of the races is for profit, a damn fine profit I would guess.
Assume, pro forma, 150 racers @ $45ea = $6,750.

Assume a $2,000 prize list leaves $4,750.

Remit $4 per racer for insurance surcharges ($600) leaves $4,150.

Pay an official or two. Buy TShirts. Buy swag (like beer glasses or jerseys). Pay other permitting and staffing fees. Miscellaneous overhead. Etc.

A race that finishes in the black with some seed money to prime the pump for next year is a success.

Personally, I don't mind paying a little money for a good time. My gas and travel expenses usually far exceed any race entry fees.

When you put on your race, invest your time and energy, and make your property available for a bunch of guests to romp on, how much do you charge? :D

..
 

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$2000 prize? Where is that?
My property is a bit small for racing but I seem to have mountain bikers all over it all the time and I never charge a dime, free beer and wrenching or shop space normally thrown in.
I have seen two races that gave away a glass to the winners (I love mine and know they got the engraving for free) and of course the oh so awesome Tierra race with their jersey, other than that most swag seems to be the overrun from bike shops lots of size medium stuff and stickers and the like, I should know I have a closet full.
The race I am talking about is staffed entirely by family they pay nobody, if they are not having a huge payday, they are doing something very wrong, give it to me, I will make money.

I think you guys that run races are so funny, you think nobody else does anything. I volunteer countless hours to MTB up here, building things, organizing our group helping with races, taking kids for rides, and organizing some of the funnest alley cat races you have ever seen, but nobody here rides road bikes, so what do you care? And oh yeah I never charge a dime. If I had to insure, I would charge the insurance rate. But that is just me, you know, love of the sport type of thing.

Racing is way overpriced, especially when you have an entire family that wants to go. One race = one soccer season. $45 gets you 16 soccer games on borrowed fields, insurance and a kit, not to mention coaching and administration. Our league has 300 kids, about the size of a big race.
Doesn't make much sense to me. You want to grow the sport, get more people out to races?
Charge less. You haven't seen me at a race since the economy went south and you wont. A family outing that lasts only 3 hours and the admission is $180 ( four of us that want to race) before we even get there, you have lost a family that loves to race. We are all training for the ultra events that are free and imo much more fun.

Greg
 

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SSweetleaf said:
Am I correct? The race costs 45 bucks just for the XC race? I find that INSANE.
Its worth $20 maybe $25,not a cent more. always the same observation year after year.the racing clique doesn't want a local dirty hippy beating the freshly shaved ,its a way to keep out the fast,local and people who ask why would I pay to race that? I already know I would win or at least podium and win a free bell,one brake pad or bottle of hammer gel..
 

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greg de taos said:
$2000 prize? Where is that?
My property is a bit small for racing but I seem to have mountain bikers all over it all the time and I never charge a dime, free beer and wrenching or shop space normally thrown in.
I have seen two races that gave away a glass to the winners (I love mine and know they got the engraving for free) and of course the oh so awesome Tierra race with their jersey, other than that most swag seems to be the overrun from bike shops lots of size medium stuff and stickers and the like, I should know I have a closet full.
The race I am talking about is staffed entirely by family they pay nobody, if they are not having a huge payday, they are doing something very wrong, give it to me, I will make money.

I think you guys that run races are so funny, you think nobody else does anything. I volunteer countless hours to MTB up here, building things, organizing our group helping with races, taking kids for rides, and organizing some of the funnest alley cat races you have ever seen, but nobody here rides road bikes, so what do you care? And oh yeah I never charge a dime. If I had to insure, I would charge the insurance rate. But that is just me, you know, love of the sport type of thing.

Racing is way overpriced, especially when you have an entire family that wants to go. One race = one soccer season. $45 gets you 16 soccer games on borrowed fields, insurance and a kit, not to mention coaching and administration. Our league has 300 kids, about the size of a big race.
Doesn't make much sense to me. You want to grow the sport, get more people out to races?
Charge less. You haven't seen me at a race since the economy went south and you wont. A family outing that lasts only 3 hours and the admission is $180 ( four of us that want to race) before we even get there, you have lost a family that loves to race. We are all training for the ultra events that are free and imo much more fun.

Greg
What do you think is a fair entry fee for an organized, staffed event with T-Shirt, swag, food and refreshments?

You guys that criticize race organizers are so funny. You think they don't do anything else. :)

Obviously, if you don't think you are getting fair value for your money, don't buy in. However, poisoning the well isn't going to help you or anyone else.

Your axe has a well-honed edge. Grind on.

..
 

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makachut said:
Its worth $20 maybe $25,not a cent more. always the same observation year after year.the racing clique doesn't want a local dirty hippy beating the freshly shaved ,its a way to keep out the fast,local and people who ask why would I pay to race that? I already know I would win or at least podium and win a free bell,one brake pad or bottle of hammer gel..
I'm no hippie puncher.

I'll sponsor your fee at any race I promote.

You might even win a belt buckle.

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Since you asked. $10 for a for profit race seems about right. $4 for insurance $6 a head profit. Who pays anyone? If they do, they need their money back, timing is so f-ed up all the time. I don't give a damn about swag, I am there to race, then get drunk. Food? What food? Charge people for food. I bring my own refreshments, if that adds to the cost of the race, then f- it. My point is this...if it adds to the cost and keeps normal people like me from racing, then cut is out. Write down who comes in in what order and call it quits.
Charity race $20 - $25 seems just about right, screw the t- shirt, give the money to charity.

No axe to grind (well maybe just one), this is a discussion forum, we are here to discuss things, I am good at that.

Do you race on your land? I doubt it. But somehow I am supposed to? If we did race on my land, the beer would be free there would be no swag and the race would be brutal. Kids and girls would race for gratis except for insurance. I wouldn't whine about how much work it is or how little money there was. The timing would be non existent but we would get the finish order right. I would do away with all the class crap, one race, guys v guys gals v gals, run what you brung, have at it. Hmmmm. maybe I have something. I would charge for the awesome food and make some money that way, maybe charge for camping and make a little there. I wouldn't give anything to charity cause I am a charity at this point.

Dave, don't take me too seriously, I am having fun and am bored stiff, there is no work, I have skied 6 days in a row and can't ski anymore, even though today is a surprise powder day. It is too cold/snowy/muddy to ride my bike, so I try to drum up discussion. I don't like the Taos race because it is not family friendly and they charge too much, it goes right into their pocket, but that is just me. I am pissed because I am all of a sudden as poor as hell and it sucks, we want to race but know we wont. Don't take it all personally, I don't.
 

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greg de taos said:
Since you asked. $10 for a for profit race seems about right. $4 for insurance $6 a head profit. Who pays anyone? If they do, they need their money back, timing is so f-ed up all the time. I don't give a damn about swag, I am there to race, then get drunk. Food? What food? Charge people for food. I bring my own refreshments, if that adds to the cost of the race, then f- it. My point is this...if it adds to the cost and keeps normal people like me from racing, then cut is out. Write down who comes in in what order and call it quits.
Charity race $20 - $25 seems just about right, screw the t- shirt, give the money to charity.

No axe to grind (well maybe just one), this is a discussion forum, we are here to discuss things, I am good at that.

Do you race on your land? I doubt it. But somehow I am supposed to? If we did race on my land, the beer would be free there would be no swag and the race would be brutal. Kids and girls would race for gratis except for insurance. I wouldn't whine about how much work it is or how little money there was. The timing would be non existent but we would get the finish order right. I would do away with all the class crap, one race, guys v guys gals v gals, run what you brung, have at it. Hmmmm. maybe I have something. I would charge for the awesome food and make some money that way, maybe charge for camping and make a little there. I wouldn't give anything to charity cause I am a charity at this point.

Dave, don't take me too seriously, I am having fun and am bored stiff, there is no work, I have skied 6 days in a row and can't ski anymore, even though today is a surprise powder day. It is too cold/snowy/muddy to ride my bike, so I try to drum up discussion. I don't like the Taos race because it is not family friendly and they charge too much, it goes right into their pocket, but that is just me. I am pissed because I am all of a sudden as poor as hell and it sucks, we want to race but know we wont. Don't take it all personally, I don't.
Discussion is good, and I take this in good spirit.

Race budgeting and implementation have many moving parts. We have a format for our series races which many folks enjoy. And there are lots of other races/rides with different formats.

My race pays a significant amount to BLM.

I make sure to offer discounts to Jrs. ($15) and Collegiate ($20) racers. I encourage other promoters to do something similar. If I know of someone who really wants to do the race and honestly doesn't have the scratch, I'll make an allowance. If someone has a $4k bike and a sweet SUV, I'm not so inclined to cut the rate.

The particular race you mention had a pretty reasonable fee structure last year. $20 per race for Jrs. $35/race for adults. $5 discount to do both races. Included TShirt, free beer, and etc.

It's not all about the money, but the money is part of what makes it all work.

I wish you much luck in the work hunt. If gas prices spike again, we're all in for a bucket of hurt.

.d.

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It is messed up that the BLM charges anything, tax dollars at work. If you claim not for profit do they still charge?

To be honest, it is the $5 land use fee at Taos that really gets my goat. It is on private land, owned by the people that put on the race. I have been involved in sports for so many years, for free, that I can't wrap my head around it.

That beer is not free, nor is the $5 T-shirt with advertising all over it. If I drank four beers (I would be wasted), those are at least $7 beers, no thanks, I will go to the bar. They pay no land fee and hire nobody, Roger does all the timing and they make you stop mid lap to mark your number that you went by.

I just think that we would have a better bigger race community if it was inexpensive and the promoters made money with concession, camping, beer etc.

I will gladly volunteer at any race that anyone wants me, when I can't afford to race I love being singletrack side with pint in hand cheering like crazy for every nut that comes by.
 

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greg de taos said:
It is messed up that the BLM charges anything, tax dollars at work. If you claim not for profit do they still charge?

To be honest, it is the $5 land use fee at Taos that really gets my goat. It is on private land, owned by the people that put on the race. I have been involved in sports for so many years, for free, that I can't wrap my head around it.

That beer is not free, nor is the $5 T-shirt with advertising all over it. If I drank four beers (I would be wasted), those are at least $7 beers, no thanks, I will go to the bar. They pay no land fee and hire nobody, Roger does all the timing and they make you stop mid lap to mark your number that you went by.

I just think that we would have a better bigger race community if it was inexpensive and the promoters made money with concession, camping, beer etc.

I will gladly volunteer at any race that anyone wants me, when I can't afford to race I love being singletrack side with pint in hand cheering like crazy for every nut that comes by.
If an incremental plus/minus change in the race entry $$ really is a major driving factor, why do ~90% of racers wait to register 2 or less days before the race and pay the late charge? Happens - every - time. It's so bad that some promoters actually offer free jerseys to get folks to start signing up.

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LCdaveH said:
If an incremental plus/minus change in the race entry $$ really is a major driving factor, why do ~90% of racers wait to register 2 or less days before the race and pay the late charge? Happens - every - time. It's so bad that some promoters actually offer free jerseys to get folks to start signing up.

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That's an easy fix.

Make pre-registration a requirement and drop the late registration option. A lot of races are going to this for the resons you state.
 

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mnt bike laws of physics
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I too think races are way over priced. And when you win, the prize sucks anyway most of the time. I don't want a jersey, I have enough of them..and a closet full of T-shirts.

Why do most people race? I would assume that most really are there for a good time...guaranteed a fast group ride, pushing themselves past their ordinary pace - pushin the limits. Even though I podium most of the races I enter, I would much rather pay a reasonable fee than get prizes (which like Greg was saying are given to the race promoter anyway).

If races were cheaper, there would be more racers and the race would pull in about the same amount of money.

In short, my opinion is that the races should be cheaper and have less swag....sort of like the endurance races Greg was talking about. More fun - less crap.
 

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High Alpine Adventure
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makachut said:
I already know I would win or at least podium and win a free bell,one brake pad or bottle of hammer gel..
You can always use a bell... a brake pad might be handy in the back country and don't underestimate the awesome power of Hammer Gel! :thumbsup:
 

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High Alpine Adventure
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Yanno... I can understand that the cost of a race is an issue with some folks, and I pick and choose the races I do. But I love to race in the spring.... get's my goat goin' for the summer high country romps...

So in my mind $45 isn't much these days for a race. Look at Leadville at $250 and how many people sign up? More than can get in! Heck 12Hrs of Mesa Verde is $65 and it filled up in a week!

I know it takes a lot to put on a race and everyone saying it should be free should try it sometime. I tip my hat to the prromoters and know that they ain't getting rich doing this. Why do they do it? To allow everyone to have a great time. I really do believe that!

Keep on keepin' on Lil' Lisa, Lindsay, Dave, Richard and everyone else who helps out with these races... I for one love doing them! :thumbsup:
 

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Jersey size

DaGoat said:
...and Richard is right, the jersey makes Da Torture, da shizzle! :thumbsup:
I sent a Email to the contact on the web about jersey sizing and got this response.

Hi Rich,
We finally trained everyone about what to expect for a "race cut" jersey and then we changed vendors. This year's jersey is made by primal. The sizing is expected to be similar to recent years. Definitely not smaller.
 

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High Alpine Adventure
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red5jedi said:
I sent a Email to the contact on the web about jersey sizing and got this response.

Hi Rich,
We finally trained everyone about what to expect for a "race cut" jersey and then we changed vendors. This year's jersey is made by primal. The sizing is expected to be similar to recent years. Definitely not smaller.
That's why I ordered X-Large... ok, I can hear it now.... "Not as race fit as ya think, uhhh Goat?" ;)
 
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