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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So, I'm thinking that it would be kinda fun to spend $30 on some DT Comp 2.0/1.8 spokes and rebuild the stock Monocog 29er wheels. Right now they're straight gauge 14's.

I've heard the arguments back and forth on which build is stronger--straight gauge or double-butted--on 26" wheels, and have built a few sets--always with double-butted, but I don't really know how this carrys over to 29" wheels.

I'm thinking it'll give me a slightly more compliant ride, maybe lose a 100 grams a wheel, and, well... it's just kind of nice way to spend a couple of hours and way cheaper than buying new wheels. (I already de-tensioned them and bought them back up again)

Has anyone bothered to rebuild these wheels using different spokes? Anyone know the spoke lengths? I don't believe the back has any dish, but the front is dished slightly for the disc mount.

I'd appreciate any information you think I may need. Oh yeah, I weigh 235 lbs :)

Regards,

Jerry
 

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jDubELu said:
So, I'm thinking that it would be kinda fun to spend $30 on some DT Comp 2.0/1.8 spokes and rebuild the stock Monocog 29er wheels. Right now they're straight gauge 14's.

I've heard the arguments back and forth on which build is stronger--straight gauge or double-butted--on 26" wheels, and have built a few sets--always with double-butted, but I don't really know how this carrys over to 29" wheels.

I'm thinking it'll give me a slightly more compliant ride, maybe lose a 100 grams a wheel, and, well... it's just kind of nice way to spend a couple of hours and way cheaper than buying new wheels. (I already de-tensioned them and bought them back up again)

Has anyone bothered to rebuild these wheels using different spokes? Anyone know the spoke lengths? I don't believe the back has any dish, but the front is dished slightly for the disc mount.

I'd appreciate any information you think I may need. Oh yeah, I weigh 235 lbs :)

Regards,

Jerry
Good idea. Since the rear is dishless, I'm thinking the Comps are appropriate for you at 235#. You'll notice a little more 'snap' in the wheel with the butted spokes. But the front... Hmmm...

I'd probably leave it alone. Straight gauge spokes are probably better for you, on that bike, up front.

I don't think you'll lose 100g/wheel. Maybe half that. But it's the snap that you'll notice most anyway.

Good luck.

MC
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
mikesee said:
Good idea. Since the rear is dishless, I'm thinking the Comps are appropriate for you at 235#. You'll notice a little more 'snap' in the wheel with the butted spokes. But the front... Hmmm...

I'd probably leave it alone. Straight gauge spokes are probably better for you, on that bike, up front.
(snipped)
Thanks for the advice Mike! It's great to have an experienced wheel-builder pass along information like this.

Just out of curiosity--what would be the rationale for leaving straight gauge 14's on on the front? Is it a durability issue, or will it just not make enough difference to mess with?

One more piece of info--I'm running a disc brake on the front and a rim brake in the rear.

Thanks again for taking the time to respond!

Jerry
 

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jDubELu said:
So, I'm thinking that it would be kinda fun to spend $30 on some DT Comp 2.0/1.8 spokes and rebuild the stock Monocog 29er wheels. Right now they're straight gauge 14's.

I've heard the arguments back and forth on which build is stronger--straight gauge or double-butted--on 26" wheels, and have built a few sets--always with double-butted, but I don't really know how this carrys over to 29" wheels.

I'm thinking it'll give me a slightly more compliant ride, maybe lose a 100 grams a wheel, and, well... it's just kind of nice way to spend a couple of hours and way cheaper than buying new wheels. (I already de-tensioned them and bought them back up again)

Has anyone bothered to rebuild these wheels using different spokes? Anyone know the spoke lengths? I don't believe the back has any dish, but the front is dished slightly for the disc mount.

I'd appreciate any information you think I may need. Oh yeah, I weigh 235 lbs :)

Regards,

Jerry
To give you an idea about the potential weight saving, I can mention that I rebuilt 05 Bontrager 29" Superstock disc wheels from the stock straight gauge spokes and brass nipples to DT Comp on the short sides, DT Rev on the long sides (I believe that different short and long spokes allows for an optimal use of spoke material), and alu nipples. Total saving: 148 g. I am 165 lbs.

If I had chosen full DT Comp and left the nipples, I would have saved 26 g per wheel.

That's for 28 spoke wheels, so if you have 32 spokes then multiply the numbers with 32/28.

Enjoy the project!
 

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I have DT Comps on the rear wheel of my singlespeed, and DT Supercomps on the front, laced 3x to King hubs and Salso Delgado rims.
At 225, this is working pretty well for me. I only very occaisonally flex the wheel into the stays under extremely high load. I have that rear wheel wound very tight, to help mitigate wheel flex.
I have been under the school of thought that a wheel can be compliant and strong, but I also have the wheel in the stand once a week regardless.
Both wheels are still round and straight after 2 months of pretty agressive riding.
Hopefully Mike wont tell me that I'm riding a time bomb :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
anden said:
To give you an idea about the potential weight saving, I can mention that I rebuilt 05 Bontrager 29" Superstock disc wheels from the stock straight gauge spokes and brass nipples to DT Comp on the short sides, DT Rev on the long sides (I believe that different short and long spokes allows for an optimal use of spoke material), and alu nipples. Total saving: 148 g. I am 165 lbs.

If I had chosen full DT Comp and left the nipples, I would have saved 26 g per wheel.

That's for 28 spoke wheels, so if you have 32 spokes then multiply the numbers with 32/28.

Enjoy the project!
Like Mike mentioned above--I was off on my weight reduction estimates. I was originally planning to use alum nipples on the front, but now I'm not so sure--I guess I could still use them on the non-disc side and be safe. I'm still curious as to why he recommended I stick with straight gauge on the front. I'll certainly try and get a little more info before I proceed--he certainly has a lot more experence than I ever will. I've pretty much ruled out using the DT Revs at all because of my weight.

Did you notice much of a difference in the ride of your wheelset after you rebuilt it?

Jerry
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
The Monkey said:
I have DT Comps on the rear wheel of my singlespeed, and DT Supercomps on the front, laced 3x to King hubs and Salso Delgado rims.
At 225, this is working pretty well for me. I only very occaisonally flex the wheel into the stays under extremely high load. I have that rear wheel wound very tight, to help mitigate wheel flex.
I have been under the school of thought that a wheel can be compliant and strong, but I also have the wheel in the stand once a week regardless.
Both wheels are still round and straight after 2 months of pretty agressive riding.
Hopefully Mike wont tell me that I'm riding a time bomb :)
Are you having to tweak your wheels much when you have them in the stand every week or are you just being safe? I hadn't even considered Super Comps--does your front wheel seem flexy at all. Are you riding a rigid fork or suspended? Sound like a *nice* set of wheels!
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
ihatemybike said:
I can't ride butted spokes in my rear wheel. Apparently, when I do tail taps the force I put on the wheel is enough to break the spokes at the butting doesn't metter if they are DT or Wheelsmith.
No tail taps for me... not on purpose anyway, I'm doing good to hop curbs or little 6" logs in the trail. Are you doing jumps or street stuff? Or maybe both a with a little trials thrown in?

One thing I have noticed with this 29er is that I have a harder time getting it off the ground--probably just got lazy from being able to preload the dual-susp before launching over stuff. I swear I used to be able to hop my mid-80's Schwinn Sierra over all kinds of stuff--hmm...could it be the extra 40 lbs I'm lugging around now.

Either way, my wheels probably won't have to endure a lot of jumping :)
 

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If you want to do it for fun, then by all means. But I don't think the switch will offer any real weight or performance upgrade.

I wouldn't mess with aluminum nipples either. Some have no problems, but the potential hassles far outweigh the tangible gains, IMO.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
PeanutButterBreath said:
If you want to do it for fun, then by all means. But I don't think the switch will offer any real weight or performance upgrade.

(snipped)
Of course you're right, I mean, we are talking about an old heavy guy on a steel 28 lb SS. I could easily save more weight by only filling up my water bottle 7/8 of the way, or pulling that extra Clif Bar outta my Camelbak. But then again... I *might* feel a difference (even if it's only in my head), and that'll make me ride better right? :)

I kinda figure this is all just for fun anyway. Anything we can do to personalize a bike and make it just a hair nicer, I mean, all these little tweaks here and there eventaully add up to... well... a medium-sized tweak? :D

Regards,

Jerry
 

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jDubELu said:
Like Mike mentioned above--I was off on my weight reduction estimates. I was originally planning to use alum nipples on the front, but now I'm not so sure--I guess I could still use them on the non-disc side and be safe. I'm still curious as to why he recommended I stick with straight gauge on the front. I'll certainly try and get a little more info before I proceed--he certainly has a lot more experence than I ever will. I've pretty much ruled out using the DT Revs at all because of my weight.

Did you notice much of a difference in the ride of your wheelset after you rebuilt it?

Jerry
Not the least - since I didn't even ride it with the straight gauge spokes.

Regarding the DT Revs, they are on a side that takes much less load. Compared with a full DT Comp dished wheel, it is possible that you may build a wheel that is lighter and more durable by instead choosing DT Alpine III on the short sides and DT Rev on the long sides. Since you are putting material where it's needed.
 

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The Monkey said:
I have DT Comps on the rear wheel of my singlespeed, and DT Supercomps on the front, laced 3x to King hubs and Salso Delgado rims.
At 225, this is working pretty well for me. I only very occaisonally flex the wheel into the stays under extremely high load. I have that rear wheel wound very tight, to help mitigate wheel flex.
I have been under the school of thought that a wheel can be compliant and strong, but I also have the wheel in the stand once a week regardless.
Both wheels are still round and straight after 2 months of pretty agressive riding.
Hopefully Mike wont tell me that I'm riding a time bomb :)
You're riding a time bomb.

But so are the rest of us! Everything breaks eventually...

I'm surprised that you're not having problems with the front wheel. A dishless rear with Comps at your weight seems like a good xc spec. But a front disc hub (with significant dish) AND SuperComps at your weight...

I'm only 180# and I couldn't get away with that.

Unless I assumed disc and it's not. You never said which it was. ??

MC
 

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jDubELu said:
Thanks for the advice Mike! It's great to have an experienced wheel-builder pass along information like this.

Just out of curiosity--what would be the rationale for leaving straight gauge 14's on on the front? Is it a durability issue, or will it just not make enough difference to mess with?

One more piece of info--I'm running a disc brake on the front and a rim brake in the rear.
Assuming similar gauge at the elbow (2.0 straight vs 2.0/1.8 butted) straight gauge spokes are less compliant than butted spokes. There's more material there (in SG) and as a result you get less flex in a wheel built with SG, assuming proper tension, same rims, yada yada. But there's a catch: a straight gauge wheel will be stiffer up to a point, and after that point it will fail catastrophically. A wheel built with butted spokes will be a *little* flexier, but will be able to take a lot more stress before catastrophic failure.

With respect to your question, this means that a SG spoke up front is going to give you better steering response. With a disc brake and a rigid fork, this is probably the best combo. If you decided to switch to a sus fork at some point, I'd encourage you to relace it with DT Alpine 3's.

Either way, alloy nips are fine, although to be safe I'd use DT's. Any hamfist can strip out a nipple no matter what it's made of, but the DT's seem to be the best quality of anything I've used. I've built DT alloy nip 29" wheels for 300+ lb riders using disc brakes. No issues.

Hope that helps.

MC
 

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The rear goes into the stand to make sure it's true about once a week. I have this wheelset on a One 9, and it get shammered pretty well. The stuff we ride on here in VT isnt really that big, it's actually quite small, but it's ugly, wet and repetitive.
Poorly built wheels get eaten quickly.
All I'm doing is the odd 1/4 turn here and there on the rear, nothjing to the front
I'm using a Reba fork(White Bros just recently).
They are light wheels. They weigh the same as a set of I9 SS wheels I have here at the store with Delgados.
G
 

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I'm a big fan of tripple swaged spokes ever since I built my first wheel with DT Swiss Apline III's. Plenty of meat at the elbow where I like it, in fact on the "premium" hubs like my Hugi's, King's and Surly's I have a hard time getting the bend through my hub's spoke holes and the heads seated against the flange. IMO this is not a bad thing, I think the tighter the fit at the head/hole junsction, the better. The shaft is nice and thin and allows me to get high(some say too high) spoke tension, just the way I personally like to build my wheels.. I'm a faily big guy @ 74 inches and 230 pounds and ride somewhat stupidly, and I have never had a wheel fail on me while abusing it on the trail. Moof the time once I wind it up tight, stress relieve it, and give it a final touch in the stand, I never have to re-true it again for the life of the wheel unless I smash into something. Ohh, and I detest Aluminum nipples, but that's just me, I'm kinda funny like that. YMMV.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
mikesee said:
With respect to your question, this means that a SG spoke up front is going to give you better steering response. With a disc brake and a rigid fork, this is probably the best combo. If you decided to switch to a sus fork at some point, I'd encourage you to relace it with DT Alpine 3's.

Hope that helps.

MC
Thanks again Mike, you've helped a great deal! And I really appreciate the explanations--it's great not only to get an anwer but to have it explained as well. I'll stick to rebuilding the back wheel for now.

Maybe take that money I'll save by not buying front spokes and splurge on something that'll really make me faster like Ti disc rotor bolts (just kidding!)
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
IT3 said:
I'm a big fan of tripple swaged spokes ever since I built my first wheel with DT Swiss Apline III's. Plenty of meat at the elbow where I like it, in fact on the "premium" hubs like my Hugi's, King's and Surly's I have a hard time getting the bend through my hub's spoke holes and the heads seated against the flange. IMO this is not a bad thing, I think the tighter the fit at the head/hole junsction, the better. The shaft is nice and thin and allows me to get high(some say too high) spoke tension, just the way I personally like to build my wheels.. I'm a faily big guy @ 74 inches and 230 pounds and ride somewhat stupidly, and I have never had a wheel fail on me while abusing it on the trail. Moof the time once I wind it up tight, stress relieve it, and give it a final touch in the stand, I never have to re-true it again for the life of the wheel unless I smash into something. Ohh, and I detest Aluminum nipples, but that's just me, I'm kinda funny like that. YMMV.
I'll have to check these Alpine III's out--haven't used them before. I built the wheels on my NRS several years ago and haven't had to mess with them except for one of those high-speed dismounts where I dorked the front a little.

You hear a lot of rumors about 29" wheels being weaker so I really didn't know what to expect. I really appreciate all the responses, and it sounds like there are plenty of other big guys out there hammering on their wheels with no problems.

Jerry
 
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