[Justin Fox]

Hi guys,

JUst thought some of you could offer some suggestions.

I've got an 07 Reign with the stock Fox RP2 shock on it. It's got rebound adjust, and a simple 2 way propedal (on/off) lever and that's it.

I've got it set up to how I like it, which is a little bit more pressure (less sag) than usual and I run it with propedal off.

Yesterday I hit a drop which was bigger than what I usually do and the whole bike bottomed out hard. I also busted up my ankle pretty badly (but it's fine today).

Here are some pics of the drop, you can see how badly the bike bottoms out, forks too.

I've got the bike set up how I like it for all mountain/trail riding but the bike bottoming out so hard on that drop makes me think twice about the set-up, is there anything that can be done to still have the same feel for trail riding but also cope with the bigger stuff?

Any suggestions appreciated.

 

[tonyl11]

Well, The first thing is in general that bike can handle that sized drop (Frame, at least) The rp23 is a great shock but does not have Compression (high/low or any at all) Which is why you are bottoming out on the big stuff (at least part of it)

other than running more air to make up for the extra pressure (I carry my shock pump with my anyway) That way you could run hte air for the trails, then pump it up when you get the drops)

or look to upgrade to a coil with full adjustments or a air with the same. Look at the manitou ISX-6 (Not sure if a shock with a reserve body) will fot on that reign) I know it doesn't on my trance!

The other thing you can do is sent it to Push. They can tune it based off of your weight and riding style and if youpend the extra $19. on top of the tune) they can put a bottom out bumper in it, which will help lessen out our your problem.

 

[Bob Goatse]

Does your frame have alternate shock mounting holes? My Kona Dawg has two sets of holes to mount the lower shock bolt in. One set provides a more linear spring rate, while the other provides a more progressive one (better setting for doing the big stuff).

Other than that, a Push tune is probably your only option without running a high pressure.

 

[jeffus]

I'd go coil Push DHX-5 nice shock and the bottom out is more controlled, I have a Push'd Float R and the coil is much better at handling the bigger stuff, just a weight disadvantage.

 

[drain bamage]

Could the iron horse warrior 4.0 handle that drop? If so how well?

 

[Clutchman83]

Guys! Guys! Guys!

First off, that frame won't handle a newer coil or piggyback shock. If you want to go coil look for a pre-07 Vanilla rear shock in a 7.875x2.00 size for the same travel or a 7.875x2.25 if you want to bump up to 6.7" travel. Having said that, the coil shock is going to be more linear than an air shock and is gonna probably bottom just as hard if not worse. I have an 05 Reign with an RP3 and I've had very good results from having it tuned by PUSH. If you call them and specify you want it tuned for more aggressive riding and freeriding specifically they will tune the compression to suit that style. Unfortunately, I'm not sure if they can add more bottom out damping to any shock that will fit that frame.

Having said that though, your body positioning looked good, and I would fully expect to bottom, or get close to bottoming just about any bikes suspension on a 4-footer to flat like that. I don't know if you can expect equipment to help out a whole lot more in that kind of a situation. You really just need to suck the bike and cushion the landing as much through body movement in those situations. There are guys riding BMX bikes that drop three times that height, the suspension isn't designed to do all the work, you gotta help it out a little. I think riding smooth is gonna be your best option rather than modifying the equipment, that or look for something with a transition instead of a flat landing.

 

[jetta_mike]

You could also lay of the drop to flat...they are soo 2001.

 

[William42]

Its a drop to flat, what do you expect?

Go faster next time, or drop something that actually has a transition.

Or get a hardtail where you can use your legs as suspension properly.

 

[Sov]

That particular Reign runs a high volume air can doesn't it? You could try a low volume air can for more progression through the stroke. Or add some oil to your high volume can to decrease its volume.

Also, be smoother, drop in with more speed etc....

 

[TLL]

That particular Reign runs a high volume air can doesn't it? You could try a low volume air can for more progression through the stroke. Or add some oil to your high volume can to decrease its volume.

Also, be smoother, drop in with more speed etc....

We have a winner. A LV air can will more than likely solve the issue, as will a PUSH tune.

The easy fix is to add more air to the shock and fork for jumps. Not an uncommon fix.

 

[Clutchman83]

We have a winner. A LV air can will more than likely solve the issue, as will a PUSH tune.

It doesn't make that much of a difference. I know, I've used both. It helps, but it isn't super drastic. 3:1 leverage ratio is a little high for the volume change, maybe adding oil to a low volume air can could bump up the progressiveness.

*edit - christ man, how did you manage to rack up 3k+ posts in 8 months!?! Thats on par to compete with SMT!

 

[William42]

If my shock didn't bottom off low speed drops to flat like that I'd think something was wrong.

 

[Jayem]

I agree with the William. The first thing I thought when I saw this thread yesterday was "drop to flat", which means that there's a good chance of bottoming.

So you either fix this one of a few ways;

More compression damping, which will probably mess up the plush travel you were mentioning before.

More air pressure, which will also mess up the plush travel, and it may take a much bigger change in air pressure to actually cause this to make a big difference.

Better technique or avoid drops-to-flat like in the picture. Anytime we do those types of drops we have to think about the technique and do it right, you rely a lot on your fork to absorb a lot of the force, so you might need to up the compression damping in the fork, then dry and land on the rear but not "slam" it down. The flat pedals are interesting as well, from doing drops on both styles of pedals, you have more control with clipless, and more ability to redirect that force to the part of the bike that can absorb it (fork). Before anyone says how great flats are for drops, we're not talking about 20 foot skinnies in BC, we're talking a little drop.

There are a lot of drops that I know I can do and walk away from just fine, but drops to flat like in the picture are not good for all but the most overbuilt bikes. Your bike can do a 4 foot or greater drop no problem, but not repeatedly to flat.

At the very least you should be doing those drops with the propedal compression adjustment on, it's at least a little more compression damping.

 

[Justin Fox]

Thanks for ALL the input guys. I suppose what I wanted to know was whether or not it was "normal" for my bike, which is set up how I like it, to bottom out on this particular drop.

I'm pretty sure then that it's my lack of experience with bigger drops that screwed my ankle.

 

[William42]

Thanks for ALL the input guys. I suppose what I wanted to know was whether or not it was "normal" for my bike, which is set up how I like it, to bottom out on this particular drop.

I'm pretty sure then that it's my lack of experience with bigger drops that screwed my ankle.

It looks like you're using flats. You're putting more weight on one leg then the other, I'd try and even that up. Also, I tweak my ankles quite a bit when I keep my feet as far back as yours, I chalk it up to naturally weak ankles. At any rate I ride with my feet much further forward on my pedals, the ball of my foot on the dead center of my pedal, my toes not even on it. I've tweaked my ankles several times landing exactly the way your picture shows. The ball of your foot is a lot stronger then your toes.

Start doing those calf workouts and ride with your feet a little further forward on the pedals. Also, when you start hitting drops about that big, its time to start looking for higher speed drops, and drops with a good transition (meaning that you land going the same or similar direction as you're falling).

 

[Karve]

Go for a ISX Evolver 6

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=17915
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=21366

probably the best air shock out there for heavy duty riding and has high speed compression adjustments so u can have it soft but still not bottom out

Gets awesome reviews

http://www.mtbr.com/cat/suspension/rear-shock/manitou/evolver-isx/PRD_415478_138crx.aspx

Having correct compression adjustments will help..... I remember doing a drop last summer about the same size - i am lucky to have a ccdb and it kept giving my ankles a whack - unfortunately with the ccdb its easy to get your settings a bit screwed - anyway after adjusting the HSC it was like landing on a firm sponge and I had lots more control and no ankle pain.

All the technique tips are a good idea as well but I dont see to much wrong with your style (level off those legs a bit maybe).... its easier to buy new kit anyway

 

[Clutchman83]

Go for a ISX Evolver 6

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=17915
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=21366

probably the best air shock out there for heavy duty riding and has high speed compression adjustments so u can have it soft but still not bottom out

Gets awesome reviews

http://www.mtbr.com/cat/suspension/rear-shock/manitou/evolver-isx/PRD_415478_138crx.aspx

Having correct compression adjustments will help..... I remember doing a drop last summer about the same size - i am lucky to have a ccdb and it kept giving my ankles a whack - unfortunately with the ccdb its easy to get your settings a bit screwed - anyway after adjusting the HSC it was like landing on a firm sponge and I had lots more control and no ankle pain.

All the technique tips are a good idea as well but I dont see to much wrong with your style (level off those legs a bit maybe).... its easier to buy new kit anyway

Won't fit a Reign .

Unfortunate because it is an amazing shock.

 

[petercarm]

Is this the proper time to mention that higher speed doesn't take the sting out of drops to flat. If there is the slightest vestige of a transition then using the correct (usually higher) speed to use it will soften the landing. However, if it is totally flat the landing impact is going to be the same size regardless of speed.

If you guys are talking about speed helping you get other aspects of technique right then I'll just crawl back under my rock.

FWIW I reckon the essence of the OPs technique is fine but he just needs a bit more acentuation of the rear wheel first landing (without slamming the front). Adding oil the the shock air can is a recipe for getting a stuck down shock. You're better off fitting O-rings to remove air volume.

 

[petercarm]

Also , the OP's backside hits the saddle in the middle of the landing - probably causing more accentuation of the slam. Looks like you have a gravity dropper style post fully retracted - it still may not be enough while you're honing your technique for drops of this size.

Hope the ankle gets better.

 

[Jerk_Chicken]

Add more air. Everything is a tradeoff. If you're bottoming and don't want to break that frame more than it has been, you'll protect it by trading off a bit of extra preload for the bottom out protection.