[Cloxxki]

Re: Richard C replies.....

http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=170773

I came across this thread from nearly 3 years ago when looking to check my facts.
Turns out I closed that thread myself, so I'll now open another

Since, Fisher have intruduced G2 geoemtry, which put an end to most of the ground for arguments regading toe overlap and handling, addressing them in one move.

I am now in the position where I don't defend 29" as much as I attack the to me odd religion felt for the in-between 650B wheel size.

We're not at around 60 different 29" tire molds, other 29"-specific parts have become to vast to keep count of. It's a big business, for this who beleived they could sell it.

I wonder, how does the cycling oracle view 29", and it's issies for riders under 5'6"? Although few XS bike are offered yet, I do like to profess that G2 has dropped the entry level for 29" by 4 inches, IMO to under 5'0".

While Europe hasn't moved an inch (650B?), let alone two and a half of them, in the rest o the world, 29" is becoming a top choice for people's next XC bike purchase.

One thing still has not changed. 29" riders are still pleading for wider rims and tires, and longer travel frames. Even though we've seen some developments in all three departments.

3 months from 29inch's 10th anniversary (arrivial of first WTB Nanoraptor 29x2.1" tires), how far have we come, and how much more is there to go?

Fad or revolution, new option or new deal?

Hit me!

 

[Natalie Portman]

Even fads have large production runs.

That said, I haven't seen any movement on my trips to Asia that the 29er is taking flight, which might account for lack of inseam, though I suspect Africa hasn't seen any great movement either. So that leaves South America, Australia, Europe and Antarctica.

Sure, there's a little squirming, but that's only if we discount the long history of 700c.

 

[BruceBrown]

Wal-Mart be damned!

Hey now, don't be bashing on the big W-M. That's where I get my 24" ghetto tubes for converting my 29"er wheels to tubeless....

BB

 

[ATBScott]

While I have firmly entrenched myself in the 29" camp, I will still call it a "new option". 26" wheels have a place for DH. Freestyle and some other disciplnes, as well as for smaller riders. I think that 29" rocks and that the only place it would not work for XC/Trailriders is if they are short enough that it is hard to make a frame that fits the reach for their torso and doesn't involve toe overlap situations. For smaller people, 26" wheels should be fine. 650b, while I won't knock it - it IS bigger than a 26" and should roll a little better, but is it worth the $$ for tooling, inventory, new tire molds, etc... Not as an intermediary size IMO. I'd personally rather have a 26 x 3.0" tire (Pugsly jr) type of bike than a 650b x 2.3" tire. But that would also probably require a re-tool/rework of forks and frames. 29" is here to stay, no doubt. I really don't think I'll ever buy or build another bike for me with 26" rims, except maybe a Pugsly-style, which is effectively 29" anyway. 650b is an option - and at this point I don't think it will "go away" - but I don't think it will be a revolution like the 29" wheel has been. That's my .02!!!

 

[richwolf]

Geeeez, I guess we need another thread to go over the top and get locked!

It was funny seeing my posts there. What ever happened to Master Shake?

 

[themanmonkey]

I've been in this bike game a long time and owned a 29er 15 years ago. It's just another wheelsize that solves problems for some and creates them for others. It's no more ideal that 20" wheels. 650B has been around longer than 700c I believe. 650B also used to be INCREDIBLY popular so it's proven it has longevity just by surviving. Sure there are only a couple tires available, but I remember when the best 29er tire was the Panaracer Smoke.

I really doubt we'll see either size make it to even a 10% market share in the off-road world even including CX bikes. There's really no need to draw lines in the sand over frickin wheel sizes. It's like the people who screamed "No suspension for me!" for years finding themselves needing a little cush so they can keep riding as they got older.

Variety is good for life. I would never restrict myself to one kind of beer or ice cream. So why should I restrict my wheel size?

 

[Cloxxki]

The smoke never was a 29" tire. When WTB make a try 2.1", all changed. there have always been 35-45mm cross tires, and they never maked a big impact on XC style off-roading. CX style yes, XC style, no.
(This will be where self-declared good riders come to explain how they out-rode the long travel folks abord their skinny wheeled 28"ers.)
The Nano made it possible to ride the same trails well without front suspension. And make it work for pretty much every rider that gave it a go.

This threat is not about how each size has it's problems or traits, but how time and dedication can overcome initial hurdles. In this case, XC tradition forcing us on 38mm fork offset, which just doesn't make a good mix with larger wheels. Fisher created the problem together with Noishiki (well, in part, Fisher's first OEM forks, Marz's, actually had 43mm), and they solved it. The rest can follow, if they get over themselves.

 

[MABman]

I've been in this bike game a long time and owned a 29er 15 years ago.

29"ers didn't exist until ten years ago. You may have had a 700c wheelset with the largest available tires but they were 28", semantics I know, but you are the one spewing the numbers, just make sure they are correct. And you are not the only one here that has been in the bike game for a long time, in fact that counts for little on this board. If you have a flash bike though you'll get the hits for sure.

650B has been around longer than 700c I believe.

That's a new one on me. But believe what you will.

, but I remember when the best 29er tire was the Panaracer Smoke.

The Smoke was a 1.75 carcass. I have one in the garage. It measures 28" aired up. That is the reason that go round didn't take. Just ask Dave Weins.

Variety is good for life.

Right there, but so are the facts.

 

[byknuts]

650B HAS been aound an awfully long time...
in europe...
as a randonneur style wheel size...

there's a couple billion of them in holland alone, all on 35mm wide semi slicks...
(yeah yeah yeah, slight exaggeration I know)
Hardly the harbinger of conventional mtb's demise.

and cloxx--- what's with the "richard c" comments? ("should get richard c to put a fork in the 650b")
Who cares about him?
Why idolize someone for doing nothing but following their own heart?
Chart your own course in life...

 

[Go Kart Motzart]

There's really no need to draw lines in the sand over frickin wheel sizes.

Yep. I don't get the whole 29'er zealot thing. Who cares. Cloxx, who are you still trying to sell this to? The 29'er forum?

Seriously, dude. Give it up. Clipless pedals, suspension, indexed shifting....revolutions. 29 inch wheels....not so much. It's just a wheel size.

 

[themanmonkey]

29"ers didn't exist until ten years ago. You may have had a 700c wheelset with the largest available tires but they were 28",

I used to call them "29ers" in quotes, but I got a lot of crap for that. Calling them 29ers is just a marketing name just like the Evolution headset. If the 29er was based off a different rim size might have a leg to stand on, but they're just overbuilt road rims. You might want to look into the history of the Specialized Rockcombo, Diamond Back Overdrive and Comp, and Bianchi Project series, etc. These are the predecessors and I rode them. When the newer bikes and tires came out I rode them too.

This whole thing is just silly. I've been riding bikes seriously and working in the industry for decades and have seen a lot of stuff come and go. I don't see 29ers going anywhere, but I don't see them taking over the world. They have their uses. I see the 29er thing just like the pre Ipod Apple computer zelotry that existed which actually hurt the adoption of the Macintosh operating system. I ran Mac OS 7.x and up, but I saw people get really turned off by the whole thing because of the zealotry of the fan boys.

If you folks really want 29rers to grow get off your high horse buy an extra bike and loan it out and let others decide.

 

[rmb]

and cloxx--- what's with the "richard c" comments? ("should get richard c to put a fork in the 650b")
Who cares about him?
Why idolize someone for doing nothing but following their own heart?
Chart your own course in life...

I think what he means is Richard C. said 29ers would not last and they did, so if he says the same about 650B then they will do the same.

 

[pursuiter]

...I am now in the position where I don't defend 29" as much as I attack the to me odd religion felt for the in-between 650B wheel size....

Many years ago, when I was a 7 year old, I had to ride my sister's bike (my choices: ride my sister's bike or walk, I didn't have a bike yet). When the tough guys in the neighborhood made fun of me, I challenged them to a race, and using Sis's bike, I kicked their butts. I didn't feel the need to defend my choice , I did feel the need to teach them how to ride. They figured it out without me having to explain anything :thumbsup:

The real lesson, it's never the bike, it's always the rider.

 

[nOOby]

biopace biatches!

 

[MABman]

I used to call them "29ers" in quotes, but I got a lot of crap for that. Calling them 29ers is just a marketing name just like the Evolution headset. If the 29er was based off a different rim size might have a leg to stand on, but they're just overbuilt road rims. You might want to look into the history of the Specialized Rockcombo, Diamond Back Overdrive and Comp, and Bianchi Project series, etc. These are the predecessors and I rode them. When the newer bikes and tires came out I rode them too.

This whole thing is just silly. I've been riding bikes seriously and working in the industry for decades and have seen a lot of stuff come and go. I don't see 29ers going anywhere, but I don't see them taking over the world. They have their uses. I see the 29er thing just like the pre Ipod Apple computer zelotry that existed which actually hurt the adoption of the Macintosh operating system. I ran Mac OS 7.x and up, but I saw people get really turned off by the whole thing because of the zealotry of the fan boys.

If you folks really want 29rers to grow get off your high horse buy an extra bike and loan it out and let others decide.

The Rockcombo was a 26" wheeled bike with drop bars. And I have had an Overdrive since they came out, never liked it much until I set it up like this though 10 years ago.

And it is my loaner bike that has turned many on to 29" wheels actually. One of my highest mileage set of rims are MA3's btw, which are road rims, but you know that cause you are the one with all the experience right?

I could care less if the 29" movement grows and even less about 650b. But when those that say they have a ton of experience spout their little brands of Zealotry against change using false facts and innuendoes against the concept that something else may exist outside their little industry bubble I tend to cry [email protected] and have been branded a zealot by better people than anyone on here for it since 99'. If you knew anything you would know that the only thing that keeps the bike industry alive and you in a job is change.

 

[themanmonkey]

Woah, my Overdrive Comp was set up damn close to that from '95-'99, Brooks saddle and Manitou fork too. Did you have to dimple your chainstays? I went back to a fully rigid and drop bars shortly after that and smaller tires. I finally gave it away to a good friend 2 years ago. The MA-2, later to be MA-3, were always a really popular and strong rim. Which of course is why Keith Bontrager would cut them down into 26" rims for his racers. I preferred Sun's CR-18 because they were a bit wider.

You're right about the Rockcombo, I'm not sure what I was thinking about. I'm not spouting zealotry about anything I'm saying there is room for everything and everything has a place. My zealotry might be that I'm a zealot for anti-zealotry.

 

[richwolf]

Dag nap it, I am a hunderd years old and I reckin I have seed more trends than anyone. They use to ride the tour day france on dirt roads with large rims and tires wrapped around their necks, but they wasn't really tires they were the first camelbacks! Ain;t nothin new under the sun the way I sees it.

 

[ATBScott]

Dicky - you ain't a hunnerd yearz old - yer' only 93!!! 'N I know yer experience - I sold ya yer first mountain bike! Whippersnapper!!!

 

[richwolf]

Dicky - you ain't a hunnerd yearz old - yer' only 93!!! 'N I know yer experience - I sold ya yer first mountain bike! Whippersnapper!!!

And do you remember what bike that was?

 

[ATBScott]

As I recall, it's initials were "DB" - which curiously enough, DOESN'T stand for "Douche Bag"!!! Getting any rain and is there desert riding tomorrow? I miss the desert...