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Recovering couch patato
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Has this one been posted before? I've been away for a week...
Enough food for discussion, I'd say.

 

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Velodramatic
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Cloxxki said:
Has this one been posted before? I've been away for a week...
Enough food for discussion, I'd say.

yes, that is frischi's bike i'd say. in schladming at the worldcuprace (yes, i participated too) i noticed frischi was riding ZED-RACE-threaded andré-dugast tires. NO CLINCHERS THOUGH! those were MTB-tubs! :eek:
 

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Velodramatic
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oh, now i noticed the double rear brakes! weird.....
 

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Max said:
oh, now i noticed the double rear brakes! weird.....
I noticed it and it didn't register with me and then I saw your post and looked at the picture again.

Is that not the oddest thing anyone has seen? Almost in the same class as Sheldon Browns double handle bar bike.
 

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Frischy doesn't use discs...

Frischy is a hardcore V-braker! he forces Scott to make him custom frames for his V-only needs.

might be a picture taken when they started building a racebike for him out of a production bike...the front wheel is completely different too so i really guess they were working on this bike while the picture was taken.
 

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Recovering couch patato
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
So Eclipse isn't fast enough for him anymore?
Tubs, you all know what that means : probably 650c, so LARGER wheels :) Frischi's getting there, a few mm's at a time. 650c's are 13mm larger in diameter than 26" as we know it on MTB's.
Other are already working on 700c tubulars of that kind, to further reduce rolling resistance and increase roll-over ability.

BTW, who can name those rims? How much brake power do they generate with V's in the rain?
In a recent Dutch XC race, Gerben de Knegt had 650c Dugast Racing Ralphs. He came from the back of the pack, into the lead...only to flat in the closing stages. That was on the smoothest of forest soils imaginable, with close to zero climbing/descending. Unfortunately, Gerben crashed badly in the TransAlp only weeks later, he's out for the coming months.

Funny, 650c Tubular technology has been here for decades. Now in the 29" age, with people trying 700c x 35mm Dugasts on mountainbikes (with discbrakes), all at once others have Dugast make 650c versions to keep up with rolling resistance.

Going from 26" to 29", reduces a tire's smooth surface rolling resistance by 10% (2-2,5w per wheel), at the cost of 300-400g total bike weight. Not worth it, you might say, if cornering, roll-over and endo factor wouldn't improve as dramatically also. Racers are only starting to find out now. Jelmer Pietersma rode his WW Nishiki Bigfoot 29" to a Dutch -23 Nationals title on very basic $9.99 WTB Nanoraptors. The competition was mainly on Racing Ralphs and 700c Dugasts.
 

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it is, it is...

however when looking at his rear setup i guess they are going Tubular indeed !

why should he go with those handmade tires anyway? he uses those shitty Zed Race tires for years. i still can't believe he gets such results with such a mediocre tire anyway!
it seems they use a carbon rim which might help in the weight departement.
but a carbon rim would need a Al-rim-insert to accept regular MTB clincher tires.
so i really guess this is all about having a Ritchey look-a-like tire that in reality is a tubular tire...less rolling resistance, less chance of tire failures (they sure will use Eclipse sealant in there!!

these are my 2nd cents but i see no other benefit of using such a carbon rim. in the wet he will most likely suffer in the braking departement though.hmm...what about if you get a blow on the rims from a hard g-out? maybe the tubular profile is less likely to be damaged than the exposed sidewalls of a regular clincher rim?hmm...

so these wheel might be light and with those special rubbers he might have another advantage. less rolling resistance and less chance to get a flat.aerodynamics should also be better. all in one - not bad.
 

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no - Ritchey WCS

non, c'est des pedaliers Ritchey
 

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Velodramatic
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just wonder why frischi didnt ride them tubs in the world cup race in schladming itself (training only! maybe some testing?)
 

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nino said:
Frischy is a hardcore V-braker! he forces Scott to make him custom frames for his V-only needs.

might be a picture taken when they started building a racebike for him out of a production bike...the front wheel is completely different too so i really guess they were working on this bike while the picture was taken.
- I wonder why they would build a Carbon rim around a Disc Hub if Frischy is such a V brake proponent??? Kinda odd.
 

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testing...

as i already guessed it might be because of the lack of brakepower on a carbon rim. you hardly get decent brakepower out of a rimbrake on a carbon rim. they already are on the limit on the road so on a MTB course you might be lost. so the only other option is to try disc-brakes to compensate. overall such a setup might be equal in weight yet still faster because of the tubulars.

Frischys regular WCS wheels are en't lightweight at all. i weighed a set of his wheels last year and was shocked to see them weigh ca. 1650g! so these wheels might well bring a weight reduction.
 

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Recovering couch patato
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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
With a WCS tread stuck to it with glue and all, I can't imagine the result to be actually all that fast. You have to use a tube again, right? I've been thinking about tube-less tubulars with liquid latex, and think it should be doable, though never easy.
Actually, Lew makes 700c clincher rims out of their composite material that don't require an aluminum insert. Some companies clain to put a special braking surface on their rims, but I've not heard convincing reviews on them yet.

Perhaps I'll have Dugast make me a 700c tubular with a Racing Ralph 2.25" tread, so it ends up like a good 29x2.0". I already have some nice Zipp wheels (brakeless, though). Uber-cool would be if Eclipse stepped in and used their Tufo-made tubular clincher technology together with really high-end casings and treads, to make ultra-performance tires. But then again, isn't all a racer really needs a 500g 29" version of an NBX or Racing Ralph? Lighest now is the Bontrager Jones ~ 565g, whoich corners like a dream but rolls quite mediocre.
 

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i guess no tube...

i guess all this experimenting is to get faster wheels (lighter and faster rolling) and to achieve that they try tubular MTB tires (no tube). the only "negative" is that they have to use discs as the carbon rims don't provide enough stopping power.

but i might ask Frischy himself what it's all about.
 

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nino said:
why should he go with those handmade tires anyway? he uses those shitty Zed Race tires for years.
Nothing wrong with Zed WCS thread. Z-max is horrible. Casing is another story.
 

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Frischknechts bike?

Looking at the picture the Scott frame looks very small (probably around 14-15"). I don't know Frischknechts height but I wouldn't think that he would use such a small frame so my guess is that it's NOT his bike! Nice looking frame though....
 

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TUFO makes tubular clincher tires. They just came out with their 26" mtb version. Although not the lightest, definitely something to watch. I've tried the tubular clincher T28 cyclocross tires and I liked them a lot. I mounted them to Bonty Race lite clincher rims. No tubes at all. Very slick.
 

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yes, same as ECLIPSE Tubelesstires...

yes - those Tufo are the same than the Eclipse Tubelesstires. too bad their MTB "Tubular" has a weak semislick profile and weighs too much.

but all those tires fit on regular clincher rims while i guess on that carbon rim we see a real tubular.
ECLIPSE Tubelesstires:
 

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it is a DUGAST tube fitted on a AMBROSIO rim. I know somebody who has them ( he is sort of a testrider) He says they ride verry wel. Better than with eclipse fluid. He uses the same rim : an ambrosio rim ( custom made ? ). In Athens there are a few riders who are gonna use them...
 

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Velodramatic
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OT: what will happen to Filip's custom-made dugast tires that he wanted to use in the olympic XC race? :D
 
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