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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi everyone

Last 10km walk made me consider Stan's tubeless more then before, when I was "just browsing". Now I heard quite few things, so I have no idea if it would work or not.
I have Schwalbe's Racing Ralph (2008 model 2.25" non UST and also without Snakeskin, so pretty much normal Evo triple compound RR tires) on Sun DS2+XC rims. Now my question is, if converting these tires to tubeless would work? I heard few opinions, that RR's have to week side wall to be used as tubeless. Then I have read (even here on MTBR) few horror stories about Schwalbe tires pretty much disintegrating when Stan's milk is put in etc..
I ride HT on mostly gravel or forest roads and paths, without rocky paths or bushes with thorns. There might be some bigger stones/rocks on those roads and some roots on paths, but not really much. And normally speed on downhills is quite high (normally up to 60km/h), but if I would need to classify my riding, it's still closest to XC. In case if matters, my weight is somewhere around 80kg (175-180lbs).
Any suggestions would be appreciated, and any personal experiences with these tires and Stan's would be extra appreciated... good or bad, just that I know what I can expect :)

Thanks guys.
 

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primoz said:
Hi everyone

Last 10km walk made me consider Stan's tubeless more then before, when I was "just browsing". Now I heard quite few things, so I have no idea if it would work or not.
I have Schwalbe's Racing Ralph (2008 model 2.25" non UST and also without Snakeskin, so pretty much normal Evo triple compound RR tires) on Sun DS2+XC rims. Now my question is, if converting these tires to tubeless would work? I heard few opinions, that RR's have to week side wall to be used as tubeless. Then I have read (even here on MTBR) few horror stories about Schwalbe tires pretty much disintegrating when Stan's milk is put in etc..
I ride HT on mostly gravel or forest roads and paths, without rocky paths or bushes with thorns. There might be some bigger stones/rocks on those roads and some roots on paths, but not really much. And normally speed on downhills is quite high (normally up to 60km/h), but if I would need to classify my riding, it's still closest to XC. In case if matters, my weight is somewhere around 80kg (175-180lbs).
Any suggestions would be appreciated, and any personal experiences with these tires and Stan's would be extra appreciated... good or bad, just that I know what I can expect :)

Thanks guys.
I just converted 2.25 Furious Freds (race guard) with Stans.. I inflated to 40 psi and let sit overnite, I then reduced to 25psi. The rear held up however the front went flat so I inflated both to 30psi. I did a 3 hour ride this morning and I'm simply blown away by the difference in traction and rolling resistance. I imagine the Racing Ralphs will perform similar. I weigh 190lbs and ride and race XC. I would suggest you get the race guard version for extra protection and strength to the sidewalls when running tubeless.
 

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One of the horror stories you probably read was mine...well it's time for an update.

IF you already have the tires, try them tubeless. Once they have been mounted w/ tubes, they should air up fine (w/ compressor). I did have multiple sidewall tears in one race. Since then I have patched the tears and ridden many miles across rocky terrain w/out a problem. I wouldn't say the sidewalls are tough, but they aren't really too bad. For the riding you described, you should be OK. Just take a $1 bill along to cover a sidewall tear and a spare tube. You may never have a problem. If they don't tear, they may be one of the best all around tires you've ever had.

IF you are buying new, get the UST or the Snakeskin. I run UST when not racing and it is also a great tire, a little more rolling resistance (barely noticable) and a little heavier, but I don't ever worry about tears.

In the future I will probably get the SnakeSkin version as it seems like a happy medium.

I weigh 160 and run 29 PSI rear and 28 PSI front.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Thanks for info. I already have tires (before I was using old RR, but for last 3 months I'm running 2008 model), and I couldn't be happier with these tires. They are by far the best tires I have ever used, but I will consider Snakeskin version when buying new ones, if this tubeless thing will work :)
So thanks for info guys :)
 

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I've been running 2.25 RR Evo converted to tubeless for 3 years straight now (old RR, now 2008 model) as my only tire on my XC bikes, running on Stan's Olympic and 355 rims. 145lbs, 32psi rear, 28psi front, often riding very technical terrain here in B.C. including Whistler during warmer months (many roots, tons of sharp rocks) and Vancouver's North Shore (infested with roots, generally smoother rocks) year round. Racing Pro/Elite XC, plus endurance events. No Stan's related failures "in season", although typically after a few months without refill of sealant after the race season I eventually start to get burping from the sealant finally being dried up and need to redo, or just scrap the tires then.

YMMV.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Circlip thanks for info. That's exactly the info I was looking.... someone with same setup (ok rims are different, but I guess that doesn't matter much) :)
I'm going to do this tomorrow, so hopefully I will have just as nice experience too :)
Thanks again guys for all your comments :)
 

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I should also note that the sidewalls have high degrees of variability in terms of pinhole leaks. I've had some that were almost 100% perfect from the initial mounting, and others (even purchased at the same time) that required a lot of sloshing around of sealant over the course of a couple of days. I often fill a few inches of water in the tub, then slowly rotate tire around as deep as the bead to see where bubbles are forming, then do extra sloshing at that point around the rim. All worked out OK eventually, and hold air well enough. I usually check tire pressures before each ride just in case anyhow as a habit.

Also important to note that I ride them knowing they are XC tires i.e. I have many rocks, many of them sharp, but I don't indiscriminately bomb through all of them just hoping the tires will survive. Some rock garden bombing is OK, but some common sense is needed also knowing when to lay off a bit.
 

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sean newell said:
just so you are aware.....

http://schwalbetires.com/warranty_disclaimer

so saying I run Stan's liquid in the UST versions without issue so far.
Ya, the usual legal mumbo jumbo just like almost every other tire manufacturer - if you check all the web sites. Fair enough that they're protecting themselves to some degree against usage that the tires weren't intended for. That's just a sensible legal precaution on their part since so many of the variables aren't under their control. However, just because they weren't originally intended or designed to be run as converted tubeless doesn't mean it won't work. Lots of things in this world work effectively for purposes they weren't originally intended for.

With regard to the blistering issue, since they have no idea what kind of weird one-off homebrew sealants people are going to try using I suppose that's a fair disclaimer. I can only tell you my own experience using Stan's sealant, and before that Eclipse sealant (now sold by DT Swiss under their own label) on Continental, Michelin, and now Schwalbe tires for almost 6 years now with zero blistering. YMMV once again though, with anything related to converted tubeless.
 

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tijuanamoods said:
Circlip: How does the RR corner? Does it hold its line well? I'm running Continental Verticals 2.35 on my 355s now, and they tend to drift.
Coincidentally, I spent a couple of years in the past putting a lot of trail time in on the Vert 2.35s also, and really enjoyed the for some XC conditions, especially loose loamy stuff. It very much depends on what type of trail surface you're talking about, but at least on hardpack the RRs perform better under high speed cornering than the Vert Pros which always felt a bit "squirmy" to me with the taller knobs. Then again, the height on the side knobs on the 2008 RR has increased now also (same as Nobby Nic's side knobs now) so the difference on larger lean angles may not be so much any more vs. the Vert Pro.

The RR doesn't exactly have unlimited grip - far from it since it is still a light-ish XC tire at heart - but IMHO I do find the breakaway traits of the RR to be fairly progressive and predictable i.e. it's pretty easy to know when you will break traction on cornering, and the RR will do so progressively rather than holding well to a point then suddenly letting go (which I find more disconcerting on some other tires).

Does that answer your question well enough?
 

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It does, thanks -- and good point about the higher-profile side knobs on the '08. I'm also considering the Kenda Nevegal 2.35 stick-e. (I typically ride hard pack, rock and wooden features, but mostly dry.)
 

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tijuanamoods said:
It does, thanks -- and good point about the higher-profile side knobs on the '08. I'm also considering the Kenda Nevegal 2.35 stick-e. (I typically ride hard pack, rock and wooden features, but mostly dry.)
I find the RR 2.25 at the pressures I run to grip well enough on wood/rock in the dry. The lower tread block heights combined with lower pressures actually puts a lot of rubber to surface contact down for this class of tire. Then again I don't ride my XC bike on any real steeps (that depends on your definition of steep naturally - we have some really steep faces and woodwork here in B.C. as you might imagine ;) )

I think it's common sense to say that the Neve 2.35 Stick-E will be significantly better for steeper features and / or wet conditions. That being said I ride the RRs right through Vancouver's wet winters and the 2.25 actually performs decently (way better than the 2.1 which has even smaller / lower tread blocks) but you'd have to keep in mind that we have more loamy dirt here with decomposing organic material, as opposed to clay-based mud where the RR would be kind of useless. The trade-off is that there's also an order of magnitude difference in the rolling resistance of the RR vs. the Neve, in which the RR has a big edge in straight ahead speed on anything but extreme grades requiring more grip.
 

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Circlip said:
I find the RR 2.25 at the pressures I run to grip well enough on wood/rock in the dry. The lower tread block heights combined with lower pressures actually puts a lot of rubber to surface contact down for this class of tire. Then again I don't ride my XC bike on any real steeps (that depends on your definition of steep naturally - we have some really steep faces and woodwork here in B.C. as you might imagine ;) )

I think it's common sense to say that the Neve 2.35 Stick-E will be significantly better for steeper features and / or wet conditions. That being said I ride the RRs right through Vancouver's wet winters and the 2.25 actually performs decently (way better than the 2.1 which has even smaller / lower tread blocks) but you'd have to keep in mind that we have more loamy dirt here with decomposing organic material, as opposed to clay-based mud where the RR would be kind of useless. The trade-off is that there's also an order of magnitude difference in the rolling resistance of the RR vs. the Neve, in which the RR has a big edge in straight ahead speed on anything but extreme grades requiring more grip.
Agreed on all points, Circlip, and good point re the RR's rolling resistance v. the Neve. I was actually up your way last September (I'm in the Northeast U.S.), and rode Whistler and some of the surrounding XC, including Comfortably Numb. I still dream about it. On my next trip I'd like to focus on the North Shore.
 

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tijuanamoods said:
I was actually up your way last September (I'm in the Northeast U.S.), and rode Whistler and some of the surrounding XC, including Comfortably Numb. I still dream about it. On my next trip I'd like to focus on the North Shore.
I actually rode Comfortably Numb last weekend, preceded by a run through Thrill Me Kill Me. CN was a great ride as always, although it was quite hot. Fortunately most of the climb is under tree cover which helped out.

Feel free to PM me if you ever head back here to check out the Shore. I don't ride most of the "bigger" Shore trails, but if you're looking for trails that are a similar degree of difficulty to CN (although maybe not exact equivalents) I can certainly show you some of those.
 

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I have been running Racing Ralphs with sealant all season and have had no problems. For the most part the seal up pretty easily and have held air well. I have not had a problem with the sidewalls not being stout enough. I run a 2.25 in the front and a 2.1 in the rear. I am using the standard tire on a UST rim, I use a cheap rubber rim strip to take up some space on the rim, and I use a sealant that I mix at home from liquid latex. My experiance has been nothing but great. The tires are sweet, they roll really fast and corner great.
 

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I had a few past experiences with 26" RR's that contributed to the 'horror stories'. I dug up a few old posts below. Since then with the advent of 29", I've been using Stan's 29' 355 rims for 2+ years on my SS with WTB Pythons, Weirwolf, no problems. I'm building a geared 29 now and went with the same hoops and the Schwalbe RR's. This is such a light weight combo with a great tread pattern, I could'nt resist, despite my past experiences. I'm still waiting on my frame but, built the wheels and the RR's aired up no problem. Hopefully, this problem has gone away but, it will be interesting to see as people have more experience with the RR's again....

http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=120769

also Notubes open, helpfull replies here:

http://messageboard.notubes.com/viewtopic.php?t=93&highlight=
 
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