I have the chance to get a '06 SJ Expert(Green demo bike) which I mainly want for trail riding and some racing. I have a Racer-X 80mm for a race bike. I also have a Turner Burner(with 4" not 3.5 travel) right now as a trail bike which I'm going to sell. I have on occasion had to race the Turner when the fork or crank broke on the Racer-X. Having rode a 4" trail bike(the Burner) will the SJ feel "mushy" with 5 inches of travel? Can the SJ still be competitive as a race bike with my light wheelset? Is the 06 Epic a better Trail/Back-up race bike? I can't test ride these so I would appreciate any input.
Racing on a '06 SJ Expert?
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Hmmm...you are asking a trail bike to double....
as a race bike. As you noted with 120mm of travel the SJ is going to feel "mushy" as you put it. The SJ is not designed as a race bike so... Now the Epic on the other hand is going the other way with a vengance. It is designed as an XC/Race bike and would probably be little different than your Racer X, other than the normal differences in feel and ride between different bikes. Between the Epic and the Stumpy there is a world of difference as far as designed purposes go. It depends on you. Do you want another race bike (Epic), or do you want a mid travel trail bike that might occasionally get raced (SJ). The SJ would probably be competitive with a light wheel set and some added air pressure in the shock and fork to stiffen it up a bit. But I wouldn't expect it to pull podiums for you. It's gonna be a slower bike than your Racer. Anyway, if your going to use it mostly for a fun bike then get the SJ. If you want to use it regularly to race, then the Epic would be the better choice. Personally I would say you already have a race bike, so go with the SJ. It will work for racing in a pinch, it just won't be the ideal race bike is all. Oh and one more thing. I would keep the Turner and build it up light as a back up race bike and trail bike rather than getting a Stumpy! The Burner, even with 4" rockers is a very raceable bike. But that's just me.
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as a race bike. As you noted with 120mm of travel the SJ is going to feel "mushy" as you put it. The SJ is not designed as a race bike so... Now the Epic on the other hand is going the other way with a vengance. It is designed as an XC/Race bike and would probably be little different than your Racer X, other than the normal differences in feel and ride between different bikes. Between the Epic and the Stumpy there is a world of difference as far as designed purposes go. It depends on you. Do you want another race bike (Epic), or do you want a mid travel trail bike that might occasionally get raced (SJ). The SJ would probably be competitive with a light wheel set and some added air pressure in the shock and fork to stiffen it up a bit. But I wouldn't expect it to pull podiums for you. It's gonna be a slower bike than your Racer. Anyway, if your going to use it mostly for a fun bike then get the SJ. If you want to use it regularly to race, then the Epic would be the better choice. Personally I would say you already have a race bike, so go with the SJ. It will work for racing in a pinch, it just won't be the ideal race bike is all. Oh and one more thing. I would keep the Turner and build it up light as a back up race bike and trail bike rather than getting a Stumpy! The Burner, even with 4" rockers is a very raceable bike. But that's just me.
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The stupjumper expert is an awesome bike. I would definately take it over an epic, unless it is a race only bike. With the talas forks you can take them right down to 90mm travel and lock out the rear shock so its pretty racey. They also only weigh 13kg so its just as aligth as the epic.
Stumpjumper all the way my friend
Stumpjumper all the way my friend
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449 Posts
The '06 SJ FSR Expert is an excellent XC bike, and definitely does not classify as a "mushy" bike. Race bike? Well, I ain't no hardcore racer and do not need an Epic, but I won't hesitate this year to do a couple of races with the SJ, including a 13 hour endurance race.
My XL '06 SJ FSR Expert weighs a hair less than 28 lbs, and is not weight-weenied out. I really can't afford too much weight-weenie stuff at 238 lbs. I definitely like the way the rear suspension works. Standing or seated, it flat works with zero noticeable bob.
FWIW, I sold an '04 Turner Burner (couldn't get the Swinger3 shock dialed in) and an '05 Yeti 575 (definitely NOT a XC machine) prior to purchasing this bike. I don't regret it.
Michael
My XL '06 SJ FSR Expert weighs a hair less than 28 lbs, and is not weight-weenied out. I really can't afford too much weight-weenie stuff at 238 lbs. I definitely like the way the rear suspension works. Standing or seated, it flat works with zero noticeable bob.
FWIW, I sold an '04 Turner Burner (couldn't get the Swinger3 shock dialed in) and an '05 Yeti 575 (definitely NOT a XC machine) prior to purchasing this bike. I don't regret it.
Michael
Oh man! You shouldn't have sold the Burner!.....
By the way, I was not saying that the SJ is a mushy ride. Should have be more clear on that point. But rather in comparisson to his Racer X it will certainly feel that way. The difference in travel is usually percieved as mush when going from a short travel racer to a mid to long travle trail bike. I know that the SJ is a great bike, I own one and love it. But it is a purpose built bike. The geometry is enough different from a race bike that it is noticeable. Set up of the suspension can compensate for the longer more active travel to a certain extent, but it will not be the same as a race built ride. That was the point. If he wants to race it allot then something else would be better. But it would make an okay back up.
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Well not really, your choice of course. But the reason I say tha is, My son had the same problem with his Burner. So have allot of other people with the Manitou 3 way. However he sold that 3 way and picked up a Float RL for it and couldn't be happier with it. And the problem isn't just with the Burner either. There are a lot of others that have been less than happy with their 3 ways on other bikes as well. But as long as you are happy with your SJ that's the main thing.azdrawdy said:
By the way, I was not saying that the SJ is a mushy ride. Should have be more clear on that point. But rather in comparisson to his Racer X it will certainly feel that way. The difference in travel is usually percieved as mush when going from a short travel racer to a mid to long travle trail bike. I know that the SJ is a great bike, I own one and love it. But it is a purpose built bike. The geometry is enough different from a race bike that it is noticeable. Set up of the suspension can compensate for the longer more active travel to a certain extent, but it will not be the same as a race built ride. That was the point. If he wants to race it allot then something else would be better. But it would make an okay back up.
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The DU bushing "problem" is not really a....
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problem. The lower DU bushing is a common wear area on the Stumpy and FSR. There are common wear areas on any full suspension bike. Parts that have to be replaced occasionally as they wear out. In this instance it is the bushing in the lower shock mount that needs to be replaced occasionally. Now in manufacturing we all know that parts are not always perfect. Now and then an out of spec part will get installed and cause a problem. This is the instance with the current thread on the lower bushing that just popped up I am sure. Specialized makes may hundereds of bikes each year. So occasionally there is bound to be a bad this or that that slips by the QC department. But Spec has an excellent warranty policy, one of the best in the business I believe, and as long as your LBS works it the way they should there should be no problem getting such things taken care of. If it does worry you, you can always have your shop order a new set at the time you purchase your bike. And if you weigh in at 200lbs or more you can have them order the "big boy kit". Don't know what that consists of, but I do know it includes heavier duty bushings, probably a harder material. Either way, it would reduce down time should you have the problem. I know that I have a full season on my SJ and have not had a problem with it in any respect, and I tip the scales at 230. So my guess would be that the original poster in the Bushing thread got a bad out of spec part. As I said, when you produce the volume that a company like Specialized does, there are bound to be a few problems. That's what warranties are for, and Specialized stands be hind their products in an admirable fashion.mtbk66 said:
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Squash: I have read a bunch of your post over the past year or so and you seem to be an intelligent clyde without too large of a head! Some of the jakhazzes on these forums seem to think that their opinion is the only one that matters. Whatever.
I gave oh-so-much thought to replacing the Swinger3 on the Burner. Tons of thought. That bike felt like it was made out of a single block of aluminum, plus I got one of those Turner/MTBR shirts in XXL The shirt fits nicely. I just hated the shock and wasn't sure if a new shock was going to make things right, plus the XL left me with extremely limited "sack" clearance
You are correct that going from a limited travel bike to a long travel trail bike can be a recipe for disaster. That describes me to a tee when going from an AS-Rsl and then a Burner to the long travel 575. Didn't work for me, so I started looking for something in between.
In the end it came down to a test ride of the SJ. It really felt right. Enough suspension to take out the rocks and roots we have in my neck of the woods without any squishiness, and the handling felt spot-on.
Michael
I gave oh-so-much thought to replacing the Swinger3 on the Burner. Tons of thought. That bike felt like it was made out of a single block of aluminum, plus I got one of those Turner/MTBR shirts in XXL
The shirt fits nicely. I just hated the shock and wasn't sure if a new shock was going to make things right, plus the XL left me with extremely limited "sack" clearance You are correct that going from a limited travel bike to a long travel trail bike can be a recipe for disaster. That describes me to a tee when going from an AS-Rsl and then a Burner to the long travel 575. Didn't work for me, so I started looking for something in between.
In the end it came down to a test ride of the SJ. It really felt right. Enough suspension to take out the rocks and roots we have in my neck of the woods without any squishiness, and the handling felt spot-on.
Michael
I asked the same question....
I bought a 05 Stumpy 120 Expert a year ago.
Although I mostly trail ride it....I did a few races on it.
Is it the best choice for racing?NO....but it will work fine(unless your a pro going after a championship).
The bike does feel a little ...for lack of a better word..."mushy". Not bad....and better than many 5 inch bikes I've ridden.But still, when you hit the gas...you can feel it.
I had my suspension done by PUSH. It made a HUGE difference! The pedal platform is much stiffer, yet the bump compliance is better.A win -win!
I come from motercycles...where everyone has thier suspension done up for their weight/riding style. It does make a world of difference!
I bought a 05 Stumpy 120 Expert a year ago.
Although I mostly trail ride it....I did a few races on it.
Is it the best choice for racing?NO....but it will work fine(unless your a pro going after a championship).
The bike does feel a little ...for lack of a better word..."mushy". Not bad....and better than many 5 inch bikes I've ridden.But still, when you hit the gas...you can feel it.
I had my suspension done by PUSH. It made a HUGE difference! The pedal platform is much stiffer, yet the bump compliance is better.A win -win!
I come from motercycles...where everyone has thier suspension done up for their weight/riding style. It does make a world of difference!
Hey Mayor - How did you place your rebuild order with Push? Is it just a weight thing or do they ask questions about what you're looking for from the shock?? Did they ask what bike the shock would be set up on? What shock did you Push - is it the Septune or a Triad??
Is the Push'd shock more responsive when you need to mash on the pedals - like on a short steep climb? Is there still small bump compliance?
Sorry for all the questions - just curious as to what they did and how it performs post Push. Thanks.
Is the Push'd shock more responsive when you need to mash on the pedals - like on a short steep climb? Is there still small bump compliance?
Sorry for all the questions - just curious as to what they did and how it performs post Push. Thanks.
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I race my 05 120, mostly enduro races though. I love it. Not that I am quick though hehe...pretty slow in fact...but thats me....the bike sped me a up a treat as I find it very confidence inspiting . The 06 has slacker geometry than the 05 and the racerx., but if youve ridden the 06 and like it...thats all that counts!
A member of the UK womans Specialized starlets team used a Woman Specific FSR. I see plenty of folks on FSRs racing...along side EPIC riders. Even see a few Enduros (Usually not a racing snake on these though ).
Stu
. The 06 has slacker geometry than the 05 and the racerx., but if youve ridden the 06 and like it...thats all that counts! A member of the UK womans Specialized starlets team used a Woman Specific FSR. I see plenty of folks on FSRs racing...along side EPIC riders. Even see a few Enduros (Usually not a racing snake on these though
).Stu
I think it depends on whether you
a) want a trail bike that you can ride in a race
or
b) want a bike that gives you a shot at winning a race, that you can also ride on the trail
For the former a SJ would be fine, for the latter you may be more satisfied with the epic (especially with the tunable '06 brain). As someone mentioned earlier, Specialized designed the epic as a raceable dual suspension bike, which explains things like the geometry and flat bars.
a) want a trail bike that you can ride in a race
or
b) want a bike that gives you a shot at winning a race, that you can also ride on the trail
For the former a SJ would be fine, for the latter you may be more satisfied with the epic (especially with the tunable '06 brain). As someone mentioned earlier, Specialized designed the epic as a raceable dual suspension bike, which explains things like the geometry and flat bars.
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race it
I race mine, my old bike was a sugar team issue, but unless you are on a relly smooth track the stumpy is faster and easier on my old body. It weighs less than 26 pounds with a few goodies I robbed from the fisher.
From the specialized website.
EXPERIENCE: XC TRAIL
It's all about the trail (and riding as much of it as possible.) Each Stumpjumper FSR delivers awesome suspension and geometry in a lightweight and highly efficient package so the rider can find the flow on more of his/her favorite trail in any given afternoon. This sweet balance of trail competence and cross country speed may lead one to ask, "Is the Stumpjumper FSR a technical condition XC race bike or a fast all-mountain trail bike?" To which we answer, "Yes."
I race mine, my old bike was a sugar team issue, but unless you are on a relly smooth track the stumpy is faster and easier on my old body. It weighs less than 26 pounds with a few goodies I robbed from the fisher.
From the specialized website.
EXPERIENCE: XC TRAIL
It's all about the trail (and riding as much of it as possible.) Each Stumpjumper FSR delivers awesome suspension and geometry in a lightweight and highly efficient package so the rider can find the flow on more of his/her favorite trail in any given afternoon. This sweet balance of trail competence and cross country speed may lead one to ask, "Is the Stumpjumper FSR a technical condition XC race bike or a fast all-mountain trail bike?" To which we answer, "Yes."
Since the lower shock bushings seem to wear much faster than the uppers, it probably has a lot to do with location (mud and crap from the rear tire hits and builds up in that area). Installing a Mudflap should extend the shock bushing life by a lot.Squash said:
The mudflap doesn't help very much. I've had my mud flap since I bought my S-works last fall and the lower bushings wore out by mid summer. I got the bigboy set up and we'll see how that lasts.fsrxc said:
I did ride all winter and I'm 200+lbs, so I did put a hurtin' on the bushings. I also ordered a set of bushings from Push that arrived just after the ones my shop ordered. Push asked questions about my riding style and weight. When the Spec. set wears out, I'll have the spare set.
punga!
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