[ecibis]

First some background.....I am pretty new to racing and my first race will be coming up in 2 weeks. It's a non-technical mostly doubletrack race (Watershed Wahoo in NH) and I have spent the winter road riding and in on my trainer except for the last couple weeks. I made it through Build 2 (Friehl's method) but now that I am riding trails again I have been unhappy with my performance....my legs feel like they have lactic burn all the time even though right now I am only doing 6 hours a week and spacing out intense workouts every other day. I have been doing intense intervals and lactate tolerance reps in my workouts and since this week is a rest week and at the end of next week is a race I am planning on taking it easy the next 2 weeks and do power workouts that don't stress my muscles as much.

My question is, since I feel so burnt and slow when I am riding trails lately is that what I should practice the next 2 weeks instead of some of my routine road/trainer exercises? I am thinking that since I haven't been riding on dirt I may need to spend some time getting used to it again, however the race is non-technical so I don't want to waste too much time getting used to switchbacks, rock gardens etc,.......have any of you run into this dilema?

Thanks,
ecibis

 

[XC_Miles]

First some background.....I am pretty new to racing and my first race will be coming up in 2 weeks. It's a non-technical mostly doubletrack race (Watershed Wahoo in NH) and I have spent the winter road riding and in on my trainer except for the last couple weeks. I made it through Build 2 (Friehl's method) but now that I am riding trails again I have been unhappy with my performance....my legs feel like they have lactic burn all the time even though right now I am only doing 6 hours a week and spacing out intense workouts every other day. I have been doing intense intervals and lactate tolerance reps in my workouts and since this week is a rest week and at the end of next week is a race I am planning on taking it easy the next 2 weeks and do power workouts that don't stress my muscles as much.

My question is, since I feel so burnt and slow when I am riding trails lately is that what I should practice the next 2 weeks instead of some of my routine road/trainer exercises? I am thinking that since I haven't been riding on dirt I may need to spend some time getting used to it again, however the race is non-technical so I don't want to waste too much time getting used to switchbacks, rock gardens etc,.......have any of you run into this dilema?

Thanks,
ecibis

What do you mean by the statement, I made it to Friel's Build 2 but don't like how my legs feel now that I am riding trails? Have you continued to do the plan or have you cut back on it? I guess I'd like to know what you are trying to say exactly. Doing power workouts next week wouldn't be a bad idea. It sounds like if you have made it through Build 2 already this is going to be a peak? If not, then why'd you go to build 2 so early? Don't necessarily think that the first race of the year should be a priority race (i.e. A or B+), but more like a C race where you just show up race, and get back into the swing of things.

I think it is always a good idea to work on skills, you'll use them in the race whether you think you need to practice them or not. With your rest week this week you should get in a couple hours of very slow miles, and I'd take the time to go to a park or trail and go very slowly working my way through technical sections to work on skills.

How did you derive your HR training zones before starting the plan and are you paying careful attention to stick to them? Erring on the side of low HR for endurance (base miles) has never killed anyone. When doing the intervals, it is important to maintain proper zones especially with the longer tempo type work.

Finally, you say you are new to riding and structured training, I am pretty sure that Friel specifically tells new riders to not do the lactate tolerance reps, but this is probably a bit too cautious, but in any circumstance how many hours did you build up to in your base period before starting your more intense work?

Not trying to be critical of your plan, this is really where a coach becomes super helpful. At any rate good luck and hope you do well @ the race.

 

[ecibis]

What do you mean by the statement, I made it to Friel's Build 2 but don't like how my legs feel now that I am riding trails? Have you continued to do the plan or have you cut back on it? I guess I'd like to know what you are trying to say exactly. Doing power workouts next week wouldn't be a bad idea. It sounds like if you have made it through Build 2 already this is going to be a peak? If not, then why'd you go to build 2 so early? Don't necessarily think that the first race of the year should be a priority race (i.e. A or B+), but more like a C race where you just show up race, and get back into the swing of things.

I think it is always a good idea to work on skills, you'll use them in the race whether you think you need to practice them or not. With your rest week this week you should get in a couple hours of very slow miles, and I'd take the time to go to a park or trail and go very slowly working my way through technical sections to work on skills.

Finally, you say you are new to riding and structured training, I am pretty sure that Friel specifically tells new riders to not do the lactate tolerance reps, but this is probably a bit too cautious, but in any circumstance how many hours did you build up to in your base period before starting your more intense work?

Not trying to be critical of your plan, this is really where a coach becomes super helpful. At any rate good luck and hope you do well @ the race.

I started the plan back in the beginning of November based on Friehl's 300 hour annual plan. I followed it exactly as far as hours went so it was about 6 weeks of prep, 12 weeks of base(usually between 6-8 hours depending on the week) 4 weeks of build 1 and 4 weeks of build 2, so I am now at the last week of build 2 going into peak week. The race is C-priority and is actually at the end of peak week instead of race week but I am basically training right through it. I guess what I was getting at is that I am having a hard time getting used to trails again and with the quick ups/downs of trails my legs have felt very weak lately. I am thinking of spending most of the next 2 weeks off-road working on skills and maybe a power workout or two without any Muscular endurance or Anaerobic Endurance exercises until my legs gain some strength regardless of the low priority race. Yeah, the lactate tolerance reps were too much for me at this point. I thought because I had been an active rider the last few years I could give them a shot but I think they have done more harm than good.

Thanks for your advice, I think I'll stick to primarily skills for a couple weeks....

 

[DirtSnake]

Endurance miles

Erring on the side of low HR for endurance (base miles) has never killed anyone.

I'll second that - last year (my first year training) I almost killed myself trying to keep my HR in the right endurance zone. I'd come back from 2 hour rides feeling totally wasted - could barely stay awake, had fevers, etc. But I thought that's what it took to build endurance. I was sick for 2 months with some kind of mono related thing. This year I played it by feel, and just set a pace I could keep up comfortably for 2-4 hours. I kept my eye on the HRM, but never let it force me into a zone that didn't feel right. I kinda felt guilty that I wasn't training hard enough But I feel way better than last year.

 

[ecibis]

Zones.....

[
How did you derive your HR training zones before starting the plan and are you paying careful attention to stick to them? Erring on the side of low HR for endurance (base miles) has never killed anyone. When doing the intervals, it is important to maintain proper zones especially with the longer tempo type work. .[/QUOTE]

For the Zones I did the Friel LT road test a couple times during Base training. My results were similar both times so I am pretty sure they were correct and I have stuck to them The longer intervals don't wear me out as much as the short pyramid intervals etc. where I tend to overdue it since the monitor isn't effective for the short spurts...Friel says HR isn't applicable for these intervals, but when mine shoots up to 185-188 (my LT is 176) I may be overduing it. I think dirt snake may be right and perceived exertion may be better for me right now....

 

[XC_Miles]

[
How did you derive your HR training zones before starting the plan and are you paying careful attention to stick to them? Erring on the side of low HR for endurance (base miles) has never killed anyone. When doing the intervals, it is important to maintain proper zones especially with the longer tempo type work. .

For the Zones I did the Friel LT road test a couple times during Base training. My results were similar both times so I am pretty sure they were correct and I have stuck to them The longer intervals don't wear me out as much as the short pyramid intervals etc. where I tend to overdue it since the monitor isn't effective for the short spurts...Friel says HR isn't applicable for these intervals, but when mine shoots up to 185-188 (my LT is 176) I may be overduing it. I think dirt snake may be right and perceived exertion may be better for me right now....[/QUOTE]

Hmm... your LT is similar to mine (177ish) and for shorter power type intervals I see HR's in a similar range (top out about 193) most of the time so on the HR front you are probably okay. Perceived Exertion is very important, but if the interval is longer than 2 min I'd pay attention to HR as well. All that being said I think your key problem is recovery. You have to pay very close attention to how you are recovering. Ask yourself do my muscles hurt, is my resting HR elevated, do efforts feel harder than they previously did, etc. When you are starting to feel fatigued and NOT recovered is probably not the ideal time to do high intensity intervals. I think that Friel recommends no more than 2 high intensity sessions in a week, maybe try out a training block only doing 1 High Intensity interval session and replace the 2nd with a tempo (cruise interval) type workout. See how it goes...

Make sure you keep a log, it will help you go back on information in the future to recall how things were going. I also strongly suggest getting a coach, he/she will take a lot of the guesswork out of the equation for you. You probably spend a lot of money on your bike, and in my opinion having a coach is some of the best money you can spend.

At any rate Good Luck with your upcoming race.

 

[Iktome]

... and do power workouts that don't stress my muscles as much.

I don't understand this comment. Power workouts are specifically intended to 'stress' your muscles. That's the entire point of those workouts -- to train your body to produce as much force as possible as quickly as possible. Unless you mean something else by a 'power' workout, you shouldn't be doing them when your legs feel tired.

 

[ecibis]

[ I think that Friel recommends no more than 2 high intensity sessions in a week, maybe try out a training block only doing 1 High Intensity interval session and replace the 2nd with a tempo (cruise interval) type workout. See how it goes...


Thanks for your post, I think I have been doing some of my high intensity wortkouts too close to each other. ALso following a plan like Friehl's without adapting it to how I feel won't make me a stronger rider. Looking back on my log I rarely did active recovery rides and I have a lot of back to back days that were high intensity. I was more concerned with getting in enough hours of doing exercises that I felt were "making me stronger" and doing plenty of muscular endurance, anaerobic endurance and power workouts.... It's only the beginning of the season so I have enough time to change that mode of thinking and hopefully as a result of better recovery I'll get more out of the intense workouts when they are spaced further apart.

 

[ecibis]

I don't understand this comment. Power workouts are specifically intended to 'stress' your muscles. That's the entire point of those workouts -- to train your body to produce as much force as possible as quickly as possible. Unless you mean something else by a 'power' workout, you shouldn't be doing them when your legs feel tired.

I figured if I did mostly recovery and low-stress skill rides the next week and a half one or two power workouts spaced apart might be O.K. I would only do this if I felt up to it. Also, I feel much better after doing jumps or 8 to 10 second hill sprints than after doing pyramid intervals etc. so I figured they might work out O.K. as long as I recovered correctly