it takes a machine to build 'em big
R2R Re: 3 Bear's WTF?
What's up with the kubota on three bears and all the new sand traps/waterbars on Rocky Canyon --> ThreeBears
It's kinda hard to keep singletrack single when the kubota is tracking along creating another line parallel to the singletrack
Ridge to Rivers .... PLEASE STOP USING THE KUBOTA FOR TRAIL MAINTENANCE! We plead with you every year to not use the Kubota for trail maintenance, but no one seems to hear
I'll happily go out there and swing a pulaski, mccleod or shovel anyday....
It's kinda hard to keep singletrack single when the kubota is tracking along creating another line parallel to the singletrack
Ridge to Rivers .... PLEASE STOP USING THE KUBOTA FOR TRAIL MAINTENANCE! We plead with you every year to not use the Kubota for trail maintenance, but no one seems to hear
I'll happily go out there and swing a pulaski, mccleod or shovel anyday....
1 - 17 of 17 Posts
One up on Scotts yesterday as well.
up on one of the chutes on 3 bears i was climbing on Tuesday, i had not seen they build more waterbars though
I mentioned this thread to David Gordon. . .
for those of you who don't know David, he is the Trails Coordinator for Ridge to Rivers. I am a volunteer Trail Ranger for R2R, but I confess that I don't know a lot about trail building or maintenance - so I asked David why they use the excavator instead of doing the work by hand.
According to David, there are several reasons for using a trail excavator in the foothills. Most trails in the foothills are old roads. Though many (like Scotts) seem like singletrack, if you take a good look you can see that it follows an old prism. To cut an adequate drain dip into something that wide by hand, is a huge task, and the structure will fail within a season. By using the excavator, R2R's trail crew can build structures that last multiple seasons before having to be rebuilt or cleaned, as well as fill in the rutting that invariably occurs on our trails due to the extremely erosive nature of our soils. Trails like 3 Bears are quite wide, and its a no-brainer that the excavator needs to do the work, to the trained eye. Scotts is an example of a trail that, once the dips are in, can be maintained for a number of years by hand, until an event such as the rain that we had a couple weeks ago (a 30-year event from what people are saying) necessitates heavier machinery to put it back in good shape.
David added that he came from maintaining trails 100% by hand for 17 years, and he would never have considered using machinery on true singletrack in the mountains - however that is not what we have here, and to try to maintain the foothills trail system that way is not practical, feasible, cost-effective, reasonable or most importantly - successful.
This isn't intended to start a flame war, and everyone is certainly entitled to his or her opinion, but I found DG's explanation to be reasonable.
TF
for those of you who don't know David, he is the Trails Coordinator for Ridge to Rivers. I am a volunteer Trail Ranger for R2R, but I confess that I don't know a lot about trail building or maintenance - so I asked David why they use the excavator instead of doing the work by hand.
According to David, there are several reasons for using a trail excavator in the foothills. Most trails in the foothills are old roads. Though many (like Scotts) seem like singletrack, if you take a good look you can see that it follows an old prism. To cut an adequate drain dip into something that wide by hand, is a huge task, and the structure will fail within a season. By using the excavator, R2R's trail crew can build structures that last multiple seasons before having to be rebuilt or cleaned, as well as fill in the rutting that invariably occurs on our trails due to the extremely erosive nature of our soils. Trails like 3 Bears are quite wide, and its a no-brainer that the excavator needs to do the work, to the trained eye. Scotts is an example of a trail that, once the dips are in, can be maintained for a number of years by hand, until an event such as the rain that we had a couple weeks ago (a 30-year event from what people are saying) necessitates heavier machinery to put it back in good shape.
David added that he came from maintaining trails 100% by hand for 17 years, and he would never have considered using machinery on true singletrack in the mountains - however that is not what we have here, and to try to maintain the foothills trail system that way is not practical, feasible, cost-effective, reasonable or most importantly - successful.
This isn't intended to start a flame war, and everyone is certainly entitled to his or her opinion, but I found DG's explanation to be reasonable.
TF
I do not have a problem with the machines. I just saw one the other day. If it allows them to get more work completed, and more trails to be built then more power to them. I do appreciate the hard work that R2R does.
we need to get Dave to jump on the forum and chat with us.
The way I understood the answer above, the machines are used because it is faster to dig a big speedbump. I think people are complaining more about the choice of speedbumps than the tool used to create it. Hand digging a grade reversal into a wide road would be challenging and I could see how a speedbump would be faster. Once you have the excavator out, how bad would it be to dig a grade reversal instead?
The way I understood the answer above, the machines are used because it is faster to dig a big speedbump. I think people are complaining more about the choice of speedbumps than the tool used to create it. Hand digging a grade reversal into a wide road would be challenging and I could see how a speedbump would be faster. Once you have the excavator out, how bad would it be to dig a grade reversal instead?
I agree. R2R does a great job (and getting better) considering the budgetary/regulatory/ownership, etc, etc, constraints they contend with.mtnbkrid said:I do not have a problem with the machines. I just saw one the other day. If it allows them to get more work completed, and more trails to be built then more power to them. I do appreciate the hard work that R2R does.
please just make the berms with a camber, not off camber. At least with the kabota
you won't get bit by a snake, I have seen 10 snakes this year so far.
you won't get bit by a snake, I have seen 10 snakes this year so far.
Hey R2R and all you volunteer, thanks for the work you do, I appreciate it. You deserve a cold one.
alright, I'll chime back in again.
All comments following up my original post are true and I'm happy this has Dave thinking too. Maybe he'd be willing to meet with a group to do some education about trail building and maintenance. Personally I'd love to help maintain some of the local trails around our place here in NW Boise (Polecat, Cemetary Loop, Dump Loop)
I do agree with what he said to T and have seen some of the other damage caused by the heavy rains on other trails so I guess it's not totally warranted to blame the kubota for making large sandy waterbars and smoothing out ruts. Sure it will make the trails sustainable, but there are some other suggestions brought up that may help to improve the work done both by hand and by the kubota and keep the trails sustainable for an even longer time (i.e. grade reversal?, rerouting trails to avoid erosion severity)
All comments following up my original post are true and I'm happy this has Dave thinking too. Maybe he'd be willing to meet with a group to do some education about trail building and maintenance. Personally I'd love to help maintain some of the local trails around our place here in NW Boise (Polecat, Cemetary Loop, Dump Loop)
I do agree with what he said to T and have seen some of the other damage caused by the heavy rains on other trails so I guess it's not totally warranted to blame the kubota for making large sandy waterbars and smoothing out ruts. Sure it will make the trails sustainable, but there are some other suggestions brought up that may help to improve the work done both by hand and by the kubota and keep the trails sustainable for an even longer time (i.e. grade reversal?, rerouting trails to avoid erosion severity)
Kudos
Kudos to Dave, Bart and the R2 crew. It's amazing how fast you have fixed the damage from major rains storms. I use to be one of the biggest opponents of the kubota but as I dig more, I am starting to see the merits in some areas.
By the way, great job on Bobs. It looks much better!
Mike e.
Kudos to Dave, Bart and the R2 crew. It's amazing how fast you have fixed the damage from major rains storms. I use to be one of the biggest opponents of the kubota but as I dig more, I am starting to see the merits in some areas.
By the way, great job on Bobs. It looks much better!
Mike e.
R2R did a fine job patching the section in question. Six months from now you won't know a like-sized Tonka toy was ever there.
If that Tonka toy had a bar thingy that swings and holds a delicious beverage, I would be looking for a new job. Mmmmm power tools and beer. It may not be safe but it shoo is fun!TwistedCrank said:R2R did a fine job patching the section in question. Six months from now you won't know a like-sized Tonka toy was ever there.
Hey, how is that tapeworm treating you. I hope it's leaving enough left overs for a nice poo and a little spackle now and then. Life without spackle is no life at all.
Happy trails!
Kubota or not, 3 bears was still rippin' today. Just a few more waterbars to soak up. I like the heat too, it keeps the trails clear...
In the spirit of Fight Club there is always the opportunity to get a bunch of guys togather, go down to Tates Rents of Rent-a-Center and rent one of those digging things. Get a keg of beer and take turns digging the crap out of something. It doesn't even need to be any good or ridable. It's the digging that sets you free.Irishbuddha said:If that Tonka toy had a bar thingy that swings and holds a delicious beverage, I would be looking for a new job. Mmmmm power tools and beer. It may not be safe but it shoo is fun!
The first rule of Digging Club is you do not talk about Digging Club.
1 - 17 of 17 Posts
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