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Question about tire volumes and pinch flatting

1228 Views 11 Replies 8 Participants Last post by Bollox, Jul 5, 2006

stib

Discussion Starter · Jul 3, 2006

Hi I had a question regarding tire volumes and pinch flatting. I'm currently running Nokian Gazza Soft (2.3) up front and Hutchinson Octopus's (2.3) rear on my RFX, and like to run my tires at pretty low pressures (~30 psi). Both are steel beaded tires that are a bit heavier than I'd like. Will running larger volume kevlar beaded single-ply tires make my ride more susceptible to pinch flatting at similar tire pressures? What size tire and pressures are most of you using for general trail riding? I don't like running higher pressures because I don't like the associated harsh, bouncy feeling, but I wonder if that feel has a lot to do with how supple the tire casing is. Any thoughts and opinions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

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scepticshock

· #2 · Jul 3, 2006

Hi,
I have a Gazz 2.3 around that I used for a while, but have been using Nevagal for the last year (because of the sticky rubber). The Gazz still stands up by itself like a DH tire, whereas the Kends collapses like a pile of goo when off the rim. I'd say the sidewals of the Gazz are thicker and less likely to pinch. The kevar Kendas are pretty thin on the sides. I like to run them low too (30). I am trying some bigger tubes to see if it helps. The flats do happen, if I don't remember to pump it up for Noble Canyon

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Running a 2.5 BlueGoroove right now. It is really big so hoping that makes up for the thin sidewalls. Bet it weighs about the same as the Gazz.

I'd say if your mostly doing XC go for it, but if for more DH riding stick with the thicker sidewalls.

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theTnT

· #3 · Jul 3, 2006

It's not so much about volume as it is about the sidewalls. I had Continental Gravity on for a while and have never had som much pinch flats in my life. A good friend running Diesel have the same experience. We're both happy Schwalbe Big Betty-users now.

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MK_

· #4 · Jul 3, 2006

I second the sidewall comment. I ran Schwalbe Fat Alberts (2.35) for a season and with Maxxis welter weight tubes, I haven't had a single flat. Pinch or no pinch. Flat free. I wore the tires out and swapped them out for Schwalbe Nobby Nics, 2.4s. Considerably larger volume tires than the Fat Alberts. It has been the most frustrating pinch flat infested experience to date. I am currently running a double tube in the rear to prevent further pinch flatting, which completely kills the low weight benefit of the Nobby Nic.

They do grip amazingly well in loose over hardpack.

_MK

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PSI

· #5 · Jul 3, 2006

tube or tubeless?

are you talking about pinch flatting your tubes or tires? in my experience switching to stan's or a similar tubless setup will pretty much eliminate the problem.

Ive been running 2.1-2.5 tires by irc, wtb, maxxis, spesh and bonti with home made strips+stans, at 30 psi on my xc and trail bikes for 3 years with almost no problems.

I did pinch a rear tire once but it was under 30 psi, low on stans and going real fast over a rock garden.

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stib

Discussion Starter · #6 · Jul 4, 2006

Thanks for the replies. I was afraid that pinch flat resistance would be mainly dependent on sidewall strength. I was just hoping that a larger volume might offset the greater susceptibility of thin, kevlar beaded tires to pinch flat. I've been really sucking it up on the climbs and was hoping to use lighter tires without having to resort to increasing tire pressure or going tubeless.

SepticShock, have you tried running your Gazzas as a rear tire? If so, how did they perform? TnT, what size are the BigBetty's and their approximate weight? Are they steel or kevlar beaded?

I haven't ridden a kevlar beaded tire in quite some time. Can you run kevlar beaded tires at higher pressures than their steel beaded counterparts and retain at similar level of suppleness?

Bottomline: I want to run a lighter set of tires than my current setup (1.3kg/1kg F/R) with a larger contact patch without resorting to tubeless or compromising pinch flat resistance or the "feel" of my current setup at ~30 psi. Is that too much to ask?

Thanks again for everyone's help.

Steve

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theTnT

· #7 · Jul 4, 2006

stib said:
TnT, what size are the BigBetty's and their approximate weight? Are they steel or kevlar beaded?

See this page: http://www.mtbtires.com/specs/index.html

I run my BB at 2 bar, which is like 30 PSI, and am very happy with that. I have had some rough bottom outs on hard edges with no problems. This sunday I did a bad landing on a smallish tree stump and bottomed both fork and front tire hard. I kept listening for that air hissing out for the next 15 minutes, could not believe it held up. Standard tubes. Good sh1t (can't belive you can't type sh1t here, American hypocrisy?).

My only concern is that my next tire won't be better, I want to try a different tire next time just for the kicks.

Oh, and the side walls don't seem to like sharp rocks that much, but it's still holding up nicely (this happened in a rock garden on a DH-course about two months ago, have done about 30 DH runs and quite a few hours of XC with them since):

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ilag1

· #8 · Jul 4, 2006

uhm, to the newbie who posted this.

just run double tubes, duh.

and duct tape the sidewalls.

or maybe your wiggling rear axle and its "dynamic toe and camber adjustment" needs to be fixed. gosh. read some manuals or something.

n00b.

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gogge

· #9 · Jul 4, 2006

The Big Betty's have really good pinchflat protection! I run it on the rear on my "trials bike". I have really bad technique, so I slam it on ledges all the time!

About 15psi maxxis welterweight tube, no flats so far! Knock on wood!

The lower sidewall, close to the bead, have extra thick rubber. The rest of the casing is pretty thin, though. Very light for it's size. The large air volume also helps for pinchflatting. And it gives you good confidence in technical situations!

I think Schwalbe put the sideknobs on backwards... Definitely run them backwards!

Personally, right now my favorites are the minion dhf's singleplys. I prefer their cornering grip. But the bettys are still nice allround tires!

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stib

Discussion Starter · #10 · Jul 4, 2006

ilag1 said:
uhm, to the newbie who posted this.

just run double tubes, duh.

and duct tape the sidewalls.

or maybe your wiggling rear axle and its "dynamic toe and camber adjustment" needs to be fixed. gosh. read some manuals or something.

n00b.

Kyle, don't make me kick your @$$! :nono: ... When are we going to start building up your bike?

googe, no pinch flatting on the Big Betty's at 15 psi trials riding? I will definitely have to consider them. I've tried the Maxxis combo: High Roller (rear), Minion DHF (front), and while they were considerably lighter than my current setup, I didn't feel they offered nearly as much grip where I ride, and ended up giving them away.

Thanks again guys. Have a great 4th of July.

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scepticshock

· #11 · Jul 4, 2006

I never ran the Gazzi as a rear tire, but I might after I wear out current Nevegal.

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Bollox

· #12 · Jul 5, 2006

stib said:
I was afraid that pinch flat resistance would be mainly dependent on sidewall strength. I've been really sucking it up on the climbs and was hoping to use lighter tires without having to resort to increasing tire pressure or going tubeless.

Have you tried running your Gazzas as a rear tire? If so, how did they perform?

Bottomline: I want to run a lighter set of tires than my current setup (1.3kg/1kg F/R) with a larger contact patch without resorting to tubeless or compromising pinch flat resistance or the "feel" of my current setup at ~30 psi. Is that too much to ask?

I've been asking myself very similar questions recently. This Winter I ran Gazza (2.3's), both front and back, and they performed admirably in thick mud. Now that its geting drier I was looking for something with a lower rolling resistance and better corner grip. Mucho research later, I opted for Specialized's Adrenaline D2 Pros (front and back). And they're just what the doctor ordered; smaller, closer spaced hard compound center knobs tempered by, stickier soft compound rubber on the sides. They're slotted as a 24-Hour Endurance tire but work well in All-Mountain applications.

Yes, the sidewalls feel worringly flimsy, especially when compared to the Nokians but they've taken East Coast rock garden beatings without a whimper. I'm running 32 PSI with standard tubes and LOTS of talc..fer loooobrication

Give 'em a try. You'll be surprised.

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