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Derailleurless
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I don't wanna talk bad about the shop guy that helped me with the MkIII yesterday, but...

I kinda played dumb while checking out the built-up MkIIIs at the shop yesterday. The shop guy was very, very busy talking to a smoking hot biker gal who obviously had no intention of buying anything, so I forgive him for ignoring me for 20 minutes.

But when he finally got around to pulling the MkIII off of the third level of the bike storage rack, it started.

The guy didn't know his way around the Reba (neither do I), and was pointing to non-existant air valves under the compression lever and underneath the lowers where the rebound and negative air chambers are located. The fork was clearly oversprung and he didn't offer to adjust the pressure for me. I struggled for a few minutes with the cross-threaded air valve cap, then let a touch of air out with my fingers, he offered nothing.

He later chided me for letting air out with my fingers. "It's a very small air chamber and should only be adjusted with an shock pump, not your fingers." Uh, yeah, thanks for noticing five minutes after the fact.

The rear shock setup was a trip, and this part worries me. He put some ballpark pressure in the shock based on my weight (hey, gotta start somewhere, right?). When the 2" stroke shock sagged a whole quarter inch (what's that, 13%) he goes, "yeah, that looks about right". That's going to turn a lot of folks off set up like that -- the bike needs around 30% to perform properly.

He was a really nice guy, not at all a dummy, but his shop has been selling Hollowpoints for the past year -- he ought to have a good handle on dw-link setup. He was really positive about the bike, and indicated that he favored linkage bikes, but didn't say anything to differentiate the dw-link (lumping the MkIII in with "all these linkage designs").

Just a heads-up to potential buyers, and to IH, that a little dealer education is in order to ensure the bikes are set up properly for test rides.

Hey Dave and Todd, how about scribing some range markings on the linkages to indicate proper sag? Or just a simple peel-off shock setup decal to slap on the down tube?
 

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Speedub.Nate said:
I don't wanna talk bad about the shop guy that helped me with the MkIII yesterday, but...

I kinda played dumb while checking out the built-up MkIIIs at the shop yesterday. The shop guy was very, very busy talking to a smoking hot biker gal who obviously had no intention of buying anything, so I forgive him for ignoring me for 20 minutes.

But when he finally got around to pulling the MkIII off of the third level of the bike storage rack, it started.

The guy didn't know his way around the Reba (neither do I), and was pointing to non-existant air valves under the compression lever and underneath the lowers where the rebound and negative air chambers are located. The fork was clearly oversprung and he didn't offer to adjust the pressure for me. I struggled for a few minutes with the cross-threaded air valve cap, then let a touch of air out with my fingers, he offered nothing.

He later chided me for letting air out with my fingers. "It's a very small air chamber and should only be adjusted with an shock pump, not your fingers." Uh, yeah, thanks for noticing five minutes after the fact.

The rear shock setup was a trip, and this part worries me. He put some ballpark pressure in the shock based on my weight (hey, gotta start somewhere, right?). When the 2" stroke shock sagged a whole quarter inch (what's that, 13%) he goes, "yeah, that looks about right". That's going to turn a lot of folks off set up like that -- the bike needs around 30% to perform properly.

He was a really nice guy, not at all a dummy, but his shop has been selling Hollowpoints for the past year -- he ought to have a good handle on dw-link setup. He was really positive about the bike, and indicated that he favored linkage bikes, but didn't say anything to differentiate the dw-link (lumping the MkIII in with "all these linkage designs").

Just a heads-up to potential buyers, and to IH, that a little dealer education is in order to ensure the bikes are set up properly for test rides.

Hey Dave and Todd, how about scribing some range markings on the linkages to indicate proper sag? Or just a simple peel-off shock setup decal to slap on the down tube?
I find that avid riders are far more knowledgeable than many dealers. I'm glad that I learn about IH and find a forum where a designer of the products, president of the company building the products, and knowledgeable users of the products contribute and answer questions posted here.
 

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Industry Loudmouth
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Nate,

It's a slowly but surely process of education.

Right now we have 3 sale guys out in the field doing store visits and working on educating the shops about dw-link bikes set-up, performance advantages, etc.

As you suggested, we are working on a static decal or hangtag w/ set-up info for the bikes for 06.

-ska todd
 

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The hangtag is a great idea - especially if it is included in IH Boxes as so many riders order their bikes via Performance, or Supergo or even from a local bike shop that's actually not that local (case in point - Epic cycles selling bikes to people outside of North Carolina at great prices).
 

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Riding a Rig.
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I was surpised my MKIII came with no info on setup. If I had not been a regular on here I would have definatly set it up incorectly. It just feels too weird to get on the bike and have it sit an inch and a half lower in the travel. I've found that every store I go to the people are clueless no matter what bike. One guy tried to sell me a bike with 17.5" frame and I'm 6'. I would buy locally if I could go somewhere with people that know what they are selling. I wish I had a shop like epic cycles near me.

Anyway, I think the hang-tag would be a good idea, but why not have info like this on your website? It would be nice to see some general setup info there.
 

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Vulcan said:
I was surpised my MKIII came with no info on setup. If I had not been a regular on here I would have definatly set it up incorectly. It just feels too weird to get on the bike and have it sit and have it sit an inch and a half lower in the travel. I've found that every store I go to the people are clueless no matter what bike. One guy tried to sell me a bike with 17.5" frame and I'm 6'. I would buy locally if I could go somewhere with people that know what they are selling. I wish I had a shop like epic cycles near me.

Anyway, I think the hang-tag would be a good idea, but why not have info like this on your website? It would be nice to see some general setup info there.
Great idea with having the info on the web site as well!

I know Transition bikes does something like this for the set up of the Romic shocks that come on their frames.
 

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Riding a Rig.
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One other thing that just crossed my mind too. The manual for the 5th Element says the miniumum pressure in the main chamber should be 75. I'm sure alot of lighter riders will have to go below that to get propper sag.. I called progressive about it and they said its okay to go bellow that as long as you don't go really low (I think the guy said around 50 would be the lowest he would go). Might be worthwhile to mention something about it somewhere...

Bolt torque specs could be useful too.
 

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it's a little unrelated but buying a TV is the same thing and especially an HDTV. They NEVER have them set up properly in a store so it's hard to get a good feeling of the TV. You just have to pre-educate yourself. Hey even if they do help to set up a bike properly it's damn hard to judge a bike taking it for a little loop around the parking lot anyway.

Mis-information or uneducated sales people has ALWAYS been a problem in any retail business.

Hey if you have any serious bike questions
 

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shins meet handlebar.
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steve, the rep i talked to mentioned some dw-link seminar coming up for shop employees in our area. My manager, however, had no clue about said seminar. I doubt we'll hear anything about it.

guys, i'll tell you, no one in my shop knows shiat about full suspension bikes, especially rear suspension designs. i know the most, and everything i've learned was learned here. i still know very little compared to many people on these forums.

so yeah, caveat emptor.
 

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Derailleurless
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Ok, today was a completely different experience.

I went to a different shop, pretty much with the same MO.

The offered a outdoor testride, which I took them up on.

As the mechanic was setting the bike up, she was raving about the dw-link and relaxed my concerns about the Airo shock by telling me the dw-link didn't need any fancy SPV to work effectively. Imagine that.

She set the suspension up better than the quarter-inch guy, but didn't really explain what she was shooting for, or ask for my weight, or make any follow-up adjustments. It was probably 10 psi low when she sent me out the door. (Looks like the Airo needs around 90 psi for my 200 pounds -- I expect my AD-12 will need a little more.)

At the register, the shop manager busts out a binder with a bunch of Iron Horse handouts in it. I commented that it looked like a PowerPoint presentation, and he confirmed it was. Apparantly they had a recent classroom session with a bunch of dw-link propaganda, and the guy knew some stuff about the bike.

So yeah, it looks like Todd's guys are getting around and schooling the shops. And this shop stayed awake during the class.
 
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