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Founder: Dirty3hirties
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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Yeah....so a few of you may have seen my post about one month ago in regards to PUSH'ing my mid-compression RP23. Anyways...I got it back a few weeks ago but didn't have the chance to ride the bike until yesterday and I can tell you that I'm TOTALLY DISAPPOINTED....





....that I didn't send it away sooner!!!!! GOTCHA! :D Actually, I probably didn't fool any of you since I don't ever recall seeing/hearing/reading about someone being disappointed with the performance enhancement.


So on with the review....one ride is not a lot of saddle time but it was enough for me to notice a lot of differences. I'll follow up when I get more time on the bike

- First off, I was skeptical to be honest. I figure I would maybe feel a difference but would the difference be significant. Or in other words, would it matter. For each person, it's subjective. Since I was coming off a Mid-compression tune maybe those of you who have a Low may not feel the same performance differences. This really applies to those of you who have a Mid or even the High

- I got the PLUSH tune because I wanted the most supple small bump compliance

- Weight: ~173 (riding weight). Old settings on the RP23 was ~147 PSI. At this setting I would bottom out during the ride but never too harshly. It may be a little low from the "advised" setting but I could not tolerate the small bump harshness if I went any higher. To me the bike didn't perform well enough on the stutter type terrain or climbing ( way too stiff ) with higher PSI and I would still bottom it anyways (thus the lack of midstroke support).

- When I bolted the shock on, during my "parking lot" test, I immediately noticed how much more compliant the shock was....rebound was also much much smoother, a benefit I wasn't even planning on or even thought about. Oddly, I was surprised that I had to run MORE air in the shock to achieve the same level of sag (~153 or so). I had read that most riders were able to lower the PSI because of the tune. More on this later......I also messed around with the PP settings but the settings were not very distinct....much more vague than pre-tune. I never really use the PP so I just noted this in the back of my mind and would develop an opinion about it once I actually rode it.

- The ride: So I went to Waterdog yesterday which I have rode extensively so I know exactly how the bike reacts. The ride starts off climbing and immediately I notice that all the trail chatter was so much smoother. I was shocked at the level of difference. I kept looking down at the shock and it was definitely way more active. On smoother parts, the shock definitely moves more than previously but you don't really feel it. So as of right now, I'm stoked....a little confused though since I was running HIGHER psi. To give you an idea of what this may feel like....it's as if you lowered your tire pressure about 10 PSI....all the smallish bumps were just muted. Or maybe another good analogy is like adding an extra 1" of travel to your bike.

PP settings: I flipped the shock to #3. Noticed a difference but not nearly as stiff as pre-tune. I still probably won't use it. PP to me is almost irrelevant on the Mojo.

- DH: Totally different. Running down the rougher sections (top part of Rambler) and the lower "creek" section were a total blast. The bike doesn't get bucked around nearly as much and keeps a much tighter line. I run a Lyrik U-turn and the fork ALWAYS outperformed the shock in every aspect. Honestly, the shock is giving the Lyrik a run for the money now. It definitely feels more balanced eventhough I have more travel in the front (I always run the Lyrik at 160). Again, the bumps just feel much more muted....like you were running really low PSI in your tires or added 1" of travel to your ride. I had to stop a few times just to check the tires and even to check the air pressure in the shock jic it was leaking air or something. I just could not get my head around the shock being so plush when I was running MORE psi. I was confused and shocked at the difference.

- I never bottomed the shock....had about .5 cm more to go according to the O-ring whereas I bottomed it previously. So back to the PSI thing. I figure before, I would have to run a much lower PSI to achieve the small bump performance I could tolerate. Yes, I would bottom more but it wasn't harsh so it wasn't lacking in that area. With the PUSH tune, the shock was definitely more active in the first 1/2 of travel even with more PSI but offered more midstroke and bottom end support so as not to bottom out.


I'm going to stop with the review at this point because I am one to give my overall impression after much more ride time over varying terrain (plus it's Xmas and I really have to be doing other things!!! hahah). I really want to test the shock on the deeper travel performance so I really need to take it to Demo/JMP/or the "other" one. ;) I also want to tweak with the air pressure as well....maybe going down to 150 to see how far I can push the small bump compliance w/o sacrificing bottom out control.

For those of you that have a Mid Compression RP23 and want a more smooth, more fun riding bike, and looking for a plusher ride should definitely think about this...scratch that. JUST DO IT! I was really skeptical and even after the purchase, I was feeling some buyer's remorse because I was debating PUSH'ing a VAN R. I'm totally happy with my choice and am eager to push the shock even harder on more difficult terrain. To me, this is how a rear suspension should perform.

Although, I am still really curious how it compares to a stock Low compression tune.

Oh and MERRY XMAS! I know what my gift to myself was! :D :D :D
 

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Good assessment

I am running more pressure too but I think it is understandable. In stock form I ran lower pressure to get the small bump compliance I was after but the mid stroke suffered now the small bump is improved I can run it firmer. I also figured that the begiining stroke was smoother allowing better sag setup. This was vague in stock form as sag would often not change even with a shift of + or- 10 psi. I too struggle to feel much difference in the PP settings but this is due to the selection of a plusher tune like yours. As I understand it any change in compression affects the PP settings too ie they are not independant. In fact the only effect I experience form the PP is a degradation in traction on techier climbs.

Glad you like the Push
 

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ddraewwg,

First off you s**k...but you did get me on this one!:thumbsup:

Second, Glad you like your setup...it'll only get a better after 3-5 hours of off road riding to fully break it in.

Lastly, the air pressure difference is due to a lowered nitrogen charge with your particular tuning. The nitrogen volume/pressure causes "lifting force" on the piston and rod of the damper giving it additional spring effect. By altering this in conjunction with our new piston and valve scheme that we installed with our Factory Tuning System we can adjust this effect. This reduction in "lifting force" also creates additional small bump sensitivity which you noted.

As for the shock seeming more active, this is due to a rebound feature that we developed specifically for your bike. In fact, our preloaded rebound valve that we use was developed specifically after spending some quality time on my own MOJO. Based on some geek talk sessions with DW regarding my findings using our on-board suspension data logger we went back to the drawing board and came up with a piston specifically matched up to the MOJO and it's characteristic. The result is something that we continued to develop and is no found on nearly all of our FLOAT tuning applications.

Grip it and rip it!

Darren
 

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Darren,

I've got 2009 Float R and 2009 Revelation, both PUSH'ed about a year ago.

If I've understood correctly there's been at least one piston/shimming revision since for the fork ("2-stage shimming") but how about the rear shock? How much has it evolved in about a year? In other words: do I already have this rebound valving You told about?

I'm soon sending both shocks to TF Tuned (at UK) and I hope they got all the newest tricks for me. :)

Thanks!
 

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Founder: Dirty3hirties
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
PUSHIND said:
ddraewwg,

First off you s**k...but you did get me on this one!:thumbsup:

Darren
Muahahhahaah! Man....I didn't think someone would fall for that....hehehe.

I've talked to Jimmy on a few occasions (like even last year) but never pulled the trigger....I was that skeptical thinking "Man..this is all techno mumbo jumbo.....custom tuning....blah. I'm not going to know the difference....". But this last time was different and I'm glad I finally committed. The performance enhancement exceeded my expectations and blew away my skepticism. The only problem now is that it's winter!!!!! Arrrrggghhh....yeah yeah...it's not like CO....realistically, you can ride year round here in NorCal, but 3-4 days off the bike because of some "rain" seems like an eternity now!!!!! :madman: :madman: :madman:
 

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ddraewwg said:
For those of you that have a Mid Compression RP23 and want a more smooth
Those people with a mid-compression RP23 should be able to have it changed out by Mojo for the correct shock (low compression) free of charge. It won't be quite as plush and free-moving as a Push modified shock, but the mid-compression RP23 shock is not correct for DW suspension. I'm not sure why this is being speced on the bike.
 

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Founder: Dirty3hirties
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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Jayem said:
Those people with a mid-compression RP23 should be able to have it changed out by Mojo for the correct shock (low compression) free of charge. It won't be quite as plush and free-moving as a Push modified shock, but the mid-compression RP23 shock is not correct for DW suspension. I'm not sure why this is being speced on the bike.
Depending on year, the mid was the "stock" shock. Most of the Mojo's I've seen have the mid tune (pre '08). Mine even came with a High and I called Ibis and had it swapped to a Mid (free of charge) because I was told it was the "correct" shock. Hans made an announcement on MTBR saying that anyone who had a High could swap it with the mid.
 

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Those people with a mid-compression RP23 should be able to have it changed out by Mojo for the correct shock (low compression) free of charge. It won't be quite as plush and free-moving as a Push modified shock, but the mid-compression RP23 shock is not correct for DW suspension. I'm not sure why this is being speced on the bike.
Depending on year, the mid was the "stock" shock. Most of the Mojo's I've seen have the mid tune (pre '08). Mine even came with a High and I called Ibis and had it swapped to a Mid (free of charge) because I was told it was the "correct" shock. Hans made an announcement on MTBR saying that anyone who had a High could swap it with the mid.
A FOX low compression tune wouldn't be desirable for most MOJO riders. I would argue that the FOX Mid level shock that IBIS spec's is a better option with this application as it fits a broader range of riders out of the box.

You can't say "the mid-compression RP23 shock is not correct for DW suspension" as DW link bikes vary in their mechanical leverage characteristic. The DW link refers to the anti-squat mechanical nature but doesn't mean that DW is confined to one specific leverage characteristic. With this application higher levels of compression are desirable.

Darren
 

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Founder: Dirty3hirties
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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
PUSHIND said:
A FOX low compression tune wouldn't be desirable for most MOJO riders. I would argue that the FOX Mid level shock that IBIS spec's is a better option with this application as it fits a broader range of riders out of the box.

Darren
Yes, there has to be a bit of leeway depending on what you define as the "best performance", which explains why there has been a shift from High>Mid>Low. However, DW made some statements in particular to the Low and was pretty adamant that it was the correct shock and no other one should be spec'd.

http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?p=5133378#poststop

http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?p=6363489#poststop

Obviously a statement like from the designer will be taken as fact, but obviously people prefer different tunes. I mean a PUSH tune is different than the Low so is that technically "wrong"? I chose to do it...didn't really care if it was "supposed" to be the right tune....all I know is that I prefer the shock the way it is now. Would I prefer a standard low? Don't know...and I don't know enough between the different tunes (w/o riding each of them) to even make a guess.
 

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I have always felt my RP23 was very well set to the bike although if it did not get to full travel quite as easily that would be good. I have bent the rear shock bolt twice. Sometime in the near future it may end up pushed - next service maybe.

However, I would really like my talas 32 (140 RLC 2009 I think ?2008) pushed. Has anyone had that done and would like to share the outcome?

Being in australia I am not sure if the result would be as per those done in the USA. Although the fork has only brought me to grief once (landed a jump across slope into a washaway runnel and the tire burped when it hit the far side>>>> another rib fracture) it never has matched the shock in performance. It is just a little harsh over smaller bumps, mostly seems to work in the mid range and rarely gets to full travel. Sag is hard to set and seems very limited even at low pressure (65). It does everything OK and the bike does track OK, but it feels like it rides on top of the terrain rather than through it like the RP23.
 

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Bendy

Ridnparadise said:
I have always felt my RP23 was very well set to the bike although if it did not get to full travel quite as easily that would be good. I have bent the rear shock bolt twice. Sometime in the near future it may end up pushed - next service maybe.
I haven't bent my shock bolt since I installed the Ti kit. Lately I have been doing bigger and bigger jumps, until the council finds them and flattens them.

I'm going to give DW/PUSH a go a get my RP23 done soon. I'll write a report once I get it done.
 

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More Torque
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Ridnparadise said:
I have always felt my RP23 was very well set to the bike although if it did not get to full travel quite as easily that would be good. I have bent the rear shock bolt twice. Sometime in the near future it may end up pushed - next service maybe.

However, I would really like my talas 32 (140 RLC 2009 I think ?2008) pushed. Has anyone had that done and would like to share the outcome?

Being in australia I am not sure if the result would be as per those done in the USA. Although the fork has only brought me to grief once (landed a jump across slope into a washaway runnel and the tire burped when it hit the far side>>>> another rib fracture) it never has matched the shock in performance. It is just a little harsh over smaller bumps, mostly seems to work in the mid range and rarely gets to full travel. Sag is hard to set and seems very limited even at low pressure (65). It does everything OK and the bike does track OK, but it feels like it rides on top of the terrain rather than through it like the RP23.
One thing I'd consider if I were in your shoes would be to sell your Talas and get the 2010 version. I had many of the same issues with my 140mm '09, and the 2010 is much better. I also went with the 150 15QR, which was a nice improvement.

I'm not sure what the net cost difference between the two options in Aus would be, but if it's close, you could end up with a brand new fork for a little more (or less) than the cost of the tune.

-D
 

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PUSHIND said:
ddraewwg,

First off you s**k...but you did get me on this one!:thumbsup:

Second, Glad you like your setup...it'll only get a better after 3-5 hours of off road riding to fully break it in.

Lastly, the air pressure difference is due to a lowered nitrogen charge with your particular tuning. The nitrogen volume/pressure causes "lifting force" on the piston and rod of the damper giving it additional spring effect. By altering this in conjunction with our new piston and valve scheme that we installed with our Factory Tuning System we can adjust this effect. This reduction in "lifting force" also creates additional small bump sensitivity which you noted.

As for the shock seeming more active, this is due to a rebound feature that we developed specifically for your bike. In fact, our preloaded rebound valve that we use was developed specifically after spending some quality time on my own MOJO. Based on some geek talk sessions with DW regarding my findings using our on-board suspension data logger we went back to the drawing board and came up with a piston specifically matched up to the MOJO and it's characteristic. The result is something that we continued to develop and is no found on nearly all of our FLOAT tuning applications.

Grip it and rip it!

Darren
So that's not something you do for very many DW link, just the mojo?
 
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