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Brass Nipples!
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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Hey guys, I've decided the 29er board is probably the best place to post Pugsley stuff. The tires are 29 inches in diameter, after all.

I have a friend that build up a Pug at the same time I did. We've had fun exploring our local ATV sandpile, Sand Mountain, and Warner Valley that sits on its south edge.

Today we went on a ride exploring several washes in Warner Valley. The desert is very fragile and the cryptobiotic soil scars easily. One way to avoid hurting the living soil is to stay in washes. They're too sandy for a regular bike, but they're highways to a Pug.

I'm looking forward to getting back in Moab with this bike. Many of the Jeep/ATV trails aren't recommended for a regular bike because of the sand, but a Pugsley should allow bicycle access to a lot of new country out there.

If you're looking for another way to keep your riding fresh and you have snow, sand or loose conditions that make riding a more traditional bike difficult, one of these fat tired monsters could be just what you're looking for.
 

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I swear I can see a difference in your muscle mass from the first photos at the beginning of the ride to the last ones at the end. But really, how do those tires feel? I mean, yknow... turning em over.

I'll bet Downhilling on one of those is a lot like parachuting...
 

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Brass Nipples!
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Discussion Starter #3
flyingsuperpetis said:
I swear I can see a difference in your muscle mass from the first photos at the beginning of the ride to the last ones at the end. But really, how do those tires feel? I mean, yknow... turning em over.

I'll bet Downhilling on one of those is a lot like parachuting...
They roll well once they're moving, but you'll never win any kind of sprint with them. In sand where traction is at a premium, it's harder to spin out though. First because of the huge footprint and second because the flywheel effect of the wheels puts the power to the ground more smoothly.

Because the wheels are huge gyroscopes, you turn by making bigger leans and turning the bars more compared to a regular bike. It felt different at first, but now I'm fairly used to it. It is easier to trackstand and rock crawl, I think because of the width of the contact patch.
 

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This place needs an enema
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Cool shots. Fat tires certainly open the doors to places we never thought we'd be riding. I've got a few trips lined up for this winter. Shakedown cruises for bigger and better things, you might say...

I'm curious about your rims. Are they the offset LM's? If so, can you post a closeup pic of the rim surface?

I want to see how the offset is done, and I'm also curious if there are eyelets. Last question--do the spokes/nipples bend (harsh or otherwise) to enter the rim?

Thanks for your time and info.

MC
 

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Brass Nipples!
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Discussion Starter #6
mikesee said:
I'm curious about your rims. Are they the offset LM's? If so, can you post a closeup pic of the rim surface?

I want to see how the offset is done, and I'm also curious if there are eyelets. Last question--do the spokes/nipples bend (harsh or otherwise) to enter the rim?

Thanks for your time and info.

MC
These are the XC offset rims with machining of the inner wall of the rim to save some weight. The rims don't have eyelets. Getting a spoke wrench to bite on the non drive side nipple is a little bit of a chore until things start to tighten up because the holes are drilled on a part of the rim that faces to the right and the the nipple sticks out of the rim at an angle to the left. As a result, only a tiny bit of the nipple face is available for the wrench to bite on initially.

I ended up using a finger to bow the spoke toward the right until tension held the nipples completely out of the spoke hole. The bend isn't so much that the nipple has trouble making proper contact inside the rim. I was able to tighten the spokes without any problems with the rim.

Another thing to note is the wheels are built up with an offset to the left to provide proper chain clearance and chainline (the frame is also offset). This is accomplished by using a 35 mm adapter (provided with each frame) on the left side of the hub when truing the wheel. It is trued to an effective 170 mm width so when the adapter is removed, the result is the proper offset.
 

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This place needs an enema
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Thanks for the detailed info.

I've got the xc rims, but the non-offset variety. This is the 3rd set I've built, and all 3 sets have an 'issue' That is, where the spokes enter the rim, at final tension, there is a pretty harsh bend in the spoke. You know, the kind that leads to spoke failure in a hurry, and rarely at a good time/place.

I asked Surly about this very early on in their prototyping (~15 months ago) and they said they'd look into some way of getting around it. They also pointed out that this wouldn't happen with a single speed (and hence wider flange) hub. I don't think that's a satisfactory answer for two reasons: 1) Not everyone is going to build these wheels up for SS use, and 2) My latest build uses a 150mm OLD hub (read: WAY wide flanges) and the problem persists.

So I'm still not 100% clear--at final tension, do the spokes enter your rims with a bend? Seems like at least the non-drive side must.

Thanks again for the detailed info--much appreciated.

MC
 

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Brass Nipples!
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Discussion Starter #9
Here are some pictures of the spokes. I don't think they're bent, but the angle the nipple makes with the rim is kind of awkward.

The rim strips I used are made by Surly specifically for these rims. They're like a big "fruit by the foot" roll with a waxed paper strip that peels off to reveal a pretty tacky adhesive. You can see the strip installed on the last picture.. I imagine a couple of rounds with duct tape would work just about as well because there isn't much pressure in the tires.
 

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Bob the Wheelbuilder said:
Here are some pictures of the spokes. I don't think they're bent, but the angle the nipple makes with the rim is kind of awkward.

The rim strips I used are made by Surly specifically for these rims. They're like a big "fruit by the foot" roll with a waxed paper strip that peels off to reveal a pretty tacky adhesive. You can see the strip installed on the last picture.. I imagine a couple of rounds with duct tape would work just about as well because there isn't much pressure in the tires.
Thanks a lot for the info and pics. Your spokes don't look to have nearly the angle that mine do.

On the first set I used the Surly rim strip and it worked fine. Since then I've just used duct tape, with no problems to report.

You've been very accomodating so far, but I have one last request: Could you go out and put about 2,000 miles on your Pugs this week, to see if the lack of eyelets and/or the spoke bend is going to prove to be a durability issue? Don't forget to load the bike heavily on your trip.

I'll be right here, waiting...

!

MC
 

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Your Durability Test

Mikesee,

Your durability test has already been completed! Surly has sponsored a rider that crossed the Australian Outback on a pugs pulling a trailer. I'm not going to do your homework for you as it is getting late in the eve and the lady is calling me to the bedroom.

So, go to the Surly blog and do a search. Grayboy has also been riding his for sometime now commuting back and forth to work in the harsh minnesota winter. He has well over 2000 miles on it with no problems yet.

If you are wondering how it will handle the Iditasport... Stop worrying, pugs will be up to the challenge.
 

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Alaska Turner Mafia
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JMKM said:
Mikesee, Your durability test has already been completed! Surly has sponsored a rider that crossed the Australian Outback on a pugs pulling a trailer. I'm not going to do your homework for you as it is getting late in the eve and the lady is calling me to the bedroom.
Mike, check it out:

http://www.wildworks.co.nz/csr/photographs.php

Rando
 

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Brass Nipples!
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Discussion Starter #15 (Edited)
lil hillbilly said:
it looks like the trailer rim is a "normal" size. do you have to use pugs rims?
No they'll fit on other rims. The wide "Large Marge" rims give the tread a flatter profile which is better in sand, though.
 

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Bob the Wheelbuilder said:
Here are some pictures of the spokes. I don't think they're bent, but the angle the nipple makes with the rim is kind of awkward.
From the Jobst Brandt book a picture of improving the spoke line at the rim. This may be a time to do the bend(?)
 

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Brass Nipples!
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Discussion Starter #17
pacman said:
From the Jobst Brandt book a picture of improving the spoke line at the rim. This may be a time to do the bend(?)
After reading Brandt's book I started doing that, but I build with enough tension the bend gets pulled straight anyway. I don't see any bowing like the diagram when I look at my spokes, though.
 

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Brass Nipples!
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Discussion Starter #18
I hear my riding partner in crime will be checking out the pictures and I realize he's underrepresented, so here are a couple of him.

(If he needs to choose a handle, I nominate x-Ray, or alpha Ray for reasons that will be obvious to him.)

Enjoy!
 

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Cold. Blue. Steel.
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I feel like a little kid looking at a monster truck and thinking, "Coooool!"

I would really like to try one out one day. I need to get a garage before I can own one- I can't see hanging one by the front rim from a rubber coated hook in the ceiling of my out building with my other bikes, hahaha. :p

OGG
 

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drev-il, not Dr. Evil!
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What I really want to know is:

Does this bike make you more popular with the ladies?


That's such a unique bike and looks like a whole lotta fun. I think it would be good choice for NASA if they revisit the moon or ever get to Mars. Heck, your landscape could pass for either. :cool:
 
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