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I find MTB’ers suit up for the more minor accidents with the idea that the really big hit is unlikely to happen, so why carry the weight and heat of the gear.

I also think cyclists think you can avoid accidents if you have enough talent. People think “they” don't need the gear, but perhaps others do

I used to do 21 track days a year in my race car. I would drive with a 3 layer fire suit, with fire proof socks, leggings, turtleneck, balaclava, Hans Device (neck brace) and a Stilo helmet ($2000+), not too mention the car would have an FIA roll cage, fire suppression and a very tight 6 point harness.

A couple of things I’ve noticed:
  • Ive never been heat stroked on a trail but I have on the racetrack. But not suiting up is not an option.
  • Cyclists love to moan about helmet prices, but its the same head you’re protecting. You could buy a bike for the price of a top end carbon helmet.
  • Yearly maintenance on the car costs more than a whole bike, and you need to keep it up all season (my schedule was every 3-4 track sessions new tires, brakes etc). But you do it because that’s the cost of safety. I think there are a lot of MTB’ers that dont really put the money and time into maintenance as a safety feature.

In cars the cost of an accident is really high so you protect for the worst case scenario even though it is unlikely to happen. Bikes are different, even though you will eventually crash :)
A car has a motor to propel you around the track though. You can sit there and work the controls. A bike on the other hand requires you to move your body a lot to propel it. Dressing in full DH protective gear for a mellow trail ride would be serious overkill.
 

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Seems like if that were true then all football players would have broken collarbones all the time
Both gear and impact types are unrelated.

If you think a shoulder pad in a dh shirt is going to keep your collarbone intact you are mistaken. The issue isn't usually the initial impact but secondary movement as a result of the impact. Very often the impact is on an outstretched arm so the shoulder doesn't get hit at all.

I've had 3 major shoulder injuries, not a single one of them would have been prevented via pads.
 

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You have obviously never spent much behind the wheel of a seriously fast car on a demanding track :) It’s an surprisingly physical activity, not cardio, and it can be really draining in the heat.

I dont rember anyone saying a mellow trail ride would need full DH gear. My point was MTBers have a pretty cavalier attitude towards accidents. Obviously the worst that is likely to happen on a mellow trail ride is less than a full send DH, but it could still be higher than the gear folks wear.


A car has a motor to propel you around the track though. You can sit there and work the controls. A bike on the other hand requires you to move your body a lot to propel it. Dressing in full DH protective gear for a mellow trail ride would be serious overkill.
 

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I’m coming off of a couple pretty bad crashes on not particularly aggressive trail rides and deciding to try and get a reasonable level of coverage on the most important areas. Riding with leatt airflex hybrid knee guards, gloves, and a half or full face most of the time moving forward. I’d love to find a really lightweight (not too hot) protection for torso and back, maybe elbows as well. Aiming for something that runs pretty cool overall.
 

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You have obviously never spent much behind the wheel of a seriously fast car on a demanding track :) It’s an surprisingly physical activity, not cardio, and it can be really draining in the heat.

I dont rember anyone saying a mellow trail ride would need full DH gear. My point was MTBers have a pretty cavalier attitude towards accidents. Obviously the worst that is likely to happen on a mellow trail ride is less than a full send DH, but it could still be higher than the gear folks wear.
Actually I have. It’s not even close to being as rigorous as biking. It was hot and sweaty though. If you don’t agree then obviously you’ve never ridden a bike that hard.

“Could be higher.” Sure, that’s true. Driving to the grocery store could be more dangerous too. Do you wear full protection when you drive across town to Costco? Why not?
 

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I always wear a full face, knee pads, and wouldn’t mind getting some shin pads.
Have elbow pads that work good (triple 8), but they’re not so great with long sleeves, too big for under, not big enough for over. Probably will be buying a couple sizes up to fit over jacket/sweater.
My OTB this summer was the one day I didn’t put on the elbow pads, and I smacked the right elbow. It’s crash fate.
Have wanted to try a back protector and just found the Leatt 3df vest in my size. Will try that and probably also the Dakine spine pro in a regular backpack.
There’s some cool motorcycle gear where the shirts have slots for elbow and back protectors, but I’d want to try that system out in a fitting room before going all on on the parts.
 

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Depends, local trail half shell and light kneepads, bikepark - body armor fullface and heavy duty knee half sheen pads; skatepark - bmx lid and bmx kneepads;

Last time i broke my ankle and shoulder, so during recovery used to ride in braces

Helmet is essential- since cronyoplastic quite costly and put you on the shelf for year at least, limbs like 3-6 month of recovery

Ribs, lungs and spinal cord goes 3- 12 month recovery ;

All data is personal experience and not a scientific at all;

You can die with neck brace as well, i would ride neck brace only with proper ff and body armor at the bike park or similar terrain;

Rule oh thumb - you should be comfortable enough sending the feature and wearing equipment;


Cheers
 

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Helmet, knees, and elbows are my go to for most every ride I do. Always have the helmet on of course but I'll leave the elbows at home if it's really hot out and rarely leave the knee pads off.

I prefer to do my best to stay uninjured, I'm selfish and don't want time off the bike or skis.
 

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Bell Super DH, 7iDP Sam Hill knee pads, and leatt Airflex elbow pads are my normal attire for pretty much every ride.

My thing is if protection is comfortable enough, you'll wear it more often. And even if its not perfect all CE level 2 rated, its better than nothing. And honestly, the Leatt elbow pads perfectly fit that description. I put them on, and never think about them again until I take them off. No problems with them slipping down at all (although, I was between sizes, ordered both, and elected to keep the smaller size, as the XL's did slide down a bit).

After breaking a few ribs recently I've been looking at adding a lightweight back protector that fits the same criteria. Maybe it would have helped, maybe not, but, if I can find something that isn't too intrusive, I'm sure I'd wear it pretty regularly. Currently, the Bluegrass Armour lite, and Seamless lite or back and shoulders seem like a great option, but they're not available in the US right now (supposed to be sometime in the next couple months though). May end up with something else similar in the future if that doesn't come through.

I've thought about grabbing a Leatt neck brace if I start riding any park. Just haven't done that yet.
 

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Again no one said it was as rigorous, just like we didn’t say you have to wear full DH gear on a mellow trail ride.

Suiting up in full fire gear, with a neck brace and a proper restraint system, inside a cage is far more uncomfortable and hotter than any of the gear folks would wear on a trail ride.

The point was, one sport prepares for the catastrophic accident they probably won’t have and the other is often in denial of the one they really might have.

I drive a vehicle with seat belts, airbags, abs, crumple zones, automatic braking systems etc so there’s no need to suit up to go to Costco. I’m operating within the safety envelope of the vehicle. Take that same vehicle to the track and it’s a different story.

BTW, I put in between 65-90 miles of riding a week and I ride all winter through snow and ice, so I ride my bike hard enough.

How often did you regularity track cars for again?

Actually I have. It’s not even close to being as rigorous as biking. It was hot and sweaty though. If you don’t agree then obviously you’ve never ridden a bike that hard.

“Could be higher.” Sure, that’s true. Driving to the grocery store could be more dangerous too. Do you wear full protection when you drive across town to Costco? Why not?
 

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I drive a vehicle with seat belts, airbags, abs, crumple zones, automatic braking systems etc so there’s no need to suit up to go to Costco. I’m operating within the safety envelope of the vehicle. Take that same vehicle to the track and it’s a different story.
So does everybody else yet somehow people die in traffic accidents all the time. Yet you don’t actually dress for the worst case scenario after all, do you? Same logic applies to biking. No one’s being cavalier. We’re dressing for the occasion and playing the odds that the worst case scenario won't happen.
 

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Discussion Starter · #34 · (Edited)
I know you guys are having fun with this track vs traffic thing but it's a bit of a leap from there to bicycles. People don't die in huge numbers in cars - compared to what they once did. USA traffic deaths peaked in 1972, and deaths per miles traveled have pretty much always gone down since data was kept. The trend leveled out the last ten or fifteen years which is most likely due to diminishing returns of new safety devices, and cell phones.


And people don't die in huge numbers on the track either thanks to some serious improvements that happened after, for instance, the Le Mans disaster, the deaths of Senna and Earnhardt, etc. Everyone has a HANS device now as a direct result of Earnhardt's death.

The big distinction from road to track is that the track car's safety stuff is mostly reusable while the road car's best safety stuff is expendable. When the track car goes into a wall the driver is well held into his bucket seat by his 5 point harness and HANS device and a body panel and a suspension arm needs to be replaced, but when three airbags go off in the road car it's going to the junkyard.
 

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thanks for being a voice of reason.
My point was the perception of risk vs actual risk is a huge factor in behaviour.
And that perception of risk changes all the time and when it does, folks change their behaviour.

I don’t find it at all surprising that light weight full face trail helmets are becoming very popular as the spec and geo of trail bikes gets more capable.
I know you guys are having fun with this track vs traffic thing but it's a bit of a leap from there to bicycles. People don't die in huge numbers in cars - compared to what they once did. USA traffic deaths peaked in 1972, and deaths per miles traveled have pretty much always gone down since data was kept. The trend leveled out the last ten or fifteen years which is most likely due to diminishing returns of new safety devices, and cell phones.


And people don't die in huge numbers on the track either thanks to some serious improvements that happened after, for instance, the Le Mans disaster, the deaths of Senna and Earnhardt, etc. Everyone has a HANS device now as a direct result of Earnhardt's death.

The big distinction from road to track is that the track car's safety stuff is mostly reusable while the road car's best safety stuff is expendable. When the track car goes into a wall the driver is well held into his bucket seat by his 5 point harness and HANS device and a body panel and a suspension arm needs to be replaced, but when three airbags go off in the road car it's going to the junkyard.
 

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I do some neck specific exercises in my routine. Helps build up some mass, thickens connective tissue, attachment points, and probably a bit of bone density.
Sent from my Pixel 4a (5G) using Tapatalk
 

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Bell Super DH, 7iDP Sam Hill knee pads, and leatt Airflex elbow pads are my normal attire for pretty much every ride.

My thing is if protection is comfortable enough, you'll wear it more often. And even if its not perfect all CE level 2 rated, its better than nothing. And honestly, the Leatt elbow pads perfectly fit that description. I put them on, and never think about them again until I take them off. No problems with them slipping down at all (although, I was between sizes, ordered both, and elected to keep the smaller size, as the XL's did slide down a bit).

After breaking a few ribs recently I've been looking at adding a lightweight back protector that fits the same criteria. Maybe it would have helped, maybe not, but, if I can find something that isn't too intrusive, I'm sure I'd wear it pretty regularly. Currently, the Bluegrass Armour lite, and Seamless lite or back and shoulders seem like a great option, but they're not available in the US right now (supposed to be sometime in the next couple months though). May end up with something else similar in the future if that doesn't come through.

I've thought about grabbing a Leatt neck brace if I start riding any park. Just haven't done that yet.
I love that the Seamless Lite comes with abs. That alone is worth EU200.
 

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Discussion Starter · #39 ·
This is mountain biking forum and a mountain biking thread.

Nothing turns me off more than when non bike related comparisons enter the discussion.
That's too picky, we need to draw comparisons to related stuff like motorcycles or contact sports. And the anecdote that set me off here happened on a street.

The track car stuff is a stretch, but perhaps for analogy.
 

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It was an analogy on actual risk versus perception of risk versus behaviour.
I thought it was relevant as both are weekend warrior sports where average folks take risks.


That's too picky, we need to draw comparisons to related stuff like motorcycles or contact sports. And the anecdote that set me off here happened on a street.

The track car stuff is a stretch, but perhaps for analogy.
 
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