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Primaloft jackets?

3354 Views 15 Replies 6 Participants Last post by arnea, 5 mo ago

arnea

Discussion Starter · Nov 6, 2021

Would you recommend thin Primaloft jackets like Endura Pro SL Pro SL PrimaLoft® Jacket II - Black or Northwave Extreme Trail Jacket https://www.northwave.com/en/bike/clothing/jackets/extreme-trail-jacket for -10 ... -15 Celsius temperatures?

Bit of background: last year I participated in a 101km winter ride. It took me 15 hours, temperature started at -7C and went down to -13C at the end. I always run hot and sweat a lot, so I tried to dress to avoid moisture buildup (old MTBR threads were very helpful for getting good advice). I was quite successful. Rest of the kit was ok, just headwear and jacket were problematic.

For the bottom I had Northwave softshell winter bibs. I used flat pedals and hiking boots with Goretex gaiters and warm socks with Primalot and Merino. Feet were bit moist, but no problems.

For the top I had thin long-sleeved synthetic sweatshirt, then warm Merino mid-layer and finally softshell jacket. The jacket was made for XC skiing, it was uniform (same material everywhere), back was heavily perforated, but most of the perforation was closed by backpack. Temperature wise it was ok, but there was moisture buildup. My shoulders felt cold most of the time. I also have very old Nalini All Season jacket with windproof front and sleeves and breathable back. It really doesn't have any insulation. I've used it when temperature is more than -10C, but for lower temperatures (especially during such a long race) I'm afraid it might be not sufficient.

So I'm looking around for similar jackets that have windproof front and breathable back, but little bit warmer. The Endura felt nice - really thin fabric, the largest size felt just tiny bit too small. Northwave is on order only - but they also have larger sizes. I was also thinking that if it is too warm I can either get rid of the merino mid-layer or get thinner mid-layer. BTW, Northwave gave five starts to waterproofness, windproofness, breathablity and thermal - sounds too good to be true.

What is you experience with such or those jackets for colder, drier rides?

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Jayem

· #2 · Nov 6, 2021

arnea said:
For the top I had thin long-sleeved synthetic sweatshirt, then warm Merino mid-layer and finally softshell jacket. The jacket was made for XC skiing, it was uniform (same material everywhere), back was heavily perforated, but most of the perforation was closed by backpack. Temperature wise it was ok, but there was moisture buildup.

I'd say that is probably related to having 3 layers. Although sometimes you need more than 2 layers, it has to be pretty damn cold, because you are almost inevitably going to soak in more than 2 layers due to the inability to breathe. Better to have a thicker baselayer, if you have to, then you can at least unzip the jacket and expose it, when you are starting to sweat and get warm.

Primaloft isn't very breathable when thicker, but that also looks very thin, so it's probably decent. I have a primaloft puffy that I occasionally use (down puffys are much warmer and lighter for the weight) and I put it on when I want to get warmer, which at that point means trapping heat. I have a cool backcountry jacket with thin wool insulation I got last season, works really well. IME, few "MTB" jackets are really doing it right.

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davec113

· #3 · Nov 6, 2021

I have a 7Mesh Primaloft hoody. It's awesome. Super breathable and more suitable for high exertion vs down. I also use a Feathered Friends lightweight down vest, it's great as a backup and has saved my a$$ many times over the years. But down isn't the best primary layer for mtb because down and moisture don't mix well.

I also have a 7Mesh Gryphon mid-layer which is awesome, but I still prefer a merino baselayer because of feel. 7Mesh gear is pricey but has made my winter riding a lot more comfortable.

TooTallUK

· #4 · Nov 9, 2021

I've had variations of this jacket / smock for over 20 years. It's fantastic. Simple, high quality, works wet and dry. I pull it on for riding when the temperature drops below freezing with just a wicking layer underneath and that is usually all I need.

Montane Extreme Jacket.

arnea

Discussion Starter · #5 · Nov 10, 2021

Thank you for responses. The 7Mesh and Montane jackets seem to have same material back and forth. My idea was to look for jacket that has less windproof and more breathable back. I also looked at XC skiing jackets and found for example this: ADV Pursuit Insulate Jacket M - Black | Craft Sportswear It has windproof patches only on the upper front body.

I will have very warm backup jacket for emergencies (Mavic Propane Primaloft jacket) and only look for jacket that I'm using when I'm riding.

TooTallUK

· #6 · Nov 10, 2021

Any recommendation is largely negated by you wearing a backpack. You will always get cold shoulders due to the compression of the jacket by the shoulder straps. You will always have a sweaty back because of the backpack. I've not seen a jacket that can cope with those issues. You're going to sweat no matter what you wear and the backpack will make it worse in specific areas.

arnea

Discussion Starter · #7 · Nov 10, 2021

Never thought about that. I could mount some stuff to the bike - like clothes, food, sleeping mat - that would remove lots of bulk and weight from my back. I could take smaller pack just for bladder and wear it under the jacket.

Is this what people do for longer races?

Well now I need to figure out what kind of bags to get and how to mount them

tj7mesh

· #8 · Nov 11, 2021

arnea said:
Thank you for responses. The 7Mesh and Montane jackets seem to have same material back and forth. My idea was to look for jacket that has less windproof and more breathable back.

Hi, I'm from 7mesh. You've hit the nail on the head from our perspective! We use double weave fabrics for both the inner and outer layers on our Outflow. The intent here is exactly what you're talking about - allow just enough airflow that moisture can circulate and escape a bit more easily, and avoid that warm-but-super-clammy feeling. .

Believe it or not, there are a lot of jackets out there where the brands are knowingly impeding this, because they apply a coating to the fabric that allows it to qualify for a lower duty rate into the US (7% vs 27%). So it's a trade off - performance vs price. The balance they're choosing might be right for hiking or general outdoor use, but if your heart is pumping it's a real issue. Cheers!

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tj7mesh

· #9 · Nov 11, 2021

(deleted double post)

I will add: whether 7mesh is right for you or not, I'd recommend choosing a product where the brand highlights air permeability, or provides a CFM measure, etc.

Jayem

· #10 · Nov 11, 2021

TooTallUK said:
Any recommendation is largely negated by you wearing a backpack. You will always get cold shoulders due to the compression of the jacket by the shoulder straps. You will always have a sweaty back because of the backpack. I've not seen a jacket that can cope with those issues. You're going to sweat no matter what you wear and the backpack will make it worse in specific areas.

One thing you can do, what many of us do in Alaska, is wear a minimalist bladder-only camelback under the jacket. This tends to not sweat much at all compared to a camelback over the jacket. Plus, it keeps your water from freezing. In real cold temps, the key is to route the hose under your arm, not over your shoulder, keeps the hose from freezing.

Sometimes you can't get all the weight off your back, but you definitely want to get as much as you can, but if not, this is a good way to still manage it.

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mtnbkrmike

· #11 · Nov 11, 2021

tj7mesh said:
Hi, I'm from 7mesh...

Interesting. Like @davec113, I too have somehow managed to accumulate a fair amount of 7Mesh products, which is quite a feat, given the lack of product. Anywhere. Ever.

tj7mesh

· #12 · Nov 11, 2021

mtnbkrmike said:
Interesting. Like @davec113, I too have somehow managed to accumulate a fair amount of 7Mesh products, which is quite a feat, given the lack of product. Anywhere. Ever.

Thanks for choosing us, and sorry about availability. It's a combination of high demand, stocking our dealers, and supply chain issues. FWIW we're catching up on fall, and believe it or not we now have more inventory than we've ever had. Still missing a few key styles though so it depends what you're after.

@Jayem hey thanks that's a good tip. I've worn bladders inside to keep them from freezing (mostly ski touring) but never focused on it as creating airspace. Nice.

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davec113

· #13 · Nov 11, 2021

mtnbkrmike said:
Interesting. Like @davec113, I too have somehow managed to accumulate a fair amount of 7Mesh products, which is quite a feat, given the lack of product. Anywhere. Ever.

Yeah, I've been waiting for the Foundation boxers to get back in stock for months now. They just came back but there's also some old-stock now at REI for as little less. Those + Slab shorts are as close as you can come to riding nekkid!

One suggestion though @tj7mesh, Slab shorts need a fly if only for modesty... And the hoodies need zippered pockets. Feel free to send free stuff for free opinions.

tj7mesh

· #14 · Nov 11, 2021

davec113 said:
Yeah, I've been waiting...

Thanks for your patience! (Insider tip - Foundation Boxers are going to be offered in 3 packs where you save a bit if we can get our site upgraded, we're working on it)

We designed the Slabs to be absolutely minimal because that's what our EWS riders wanted, and boy, did we deliver. But I hear you on your feedback. Like, I really hear you.

Stay tuned for an update this spring.

arnea

Discussion Starter · #15 · 7 mo ago

I finally got the Endura Pro SL Primaloft jacket and have ridden it twice in -3 to -5 C dry, cloudy weather. Ride was a mix of slow singletrack and fast gravel to trailhead and back. Varying effort from zone 1 to zone 4.

It is good. When I was going slow it didn't feel hot. When I was going fast I felt the air moving under the jacket, but it wasn't too cold. It was blocking some wind but wasn't windproof. It is very light and soft. Front has thicker insulation, front of sleeves and shoulders slightly thinner, back is even more thinner and sides and back part of sleeves are uninsulated. Good deep pockets at the back and big zipper pocket that fits a smartphone. I tried different sweatshirts under it: synthetic and merino: both worked well.

arnea

Discussion Starter · #16 · 5 mo ago

First rides in real cold: -10..-12C. Slight wind. I used two base layer shirts under Endura jacket: synthetic tightly woven from Briko and merino/synthetic mix with breathing holes from Helly Hansen. I wore backpack. Rode two hours. When the heartrate went up it was slightly hot, when I was riding against the wind I felt some draft - the jacket is definitely not windproof. But most of the time it was just perfect. I didn't notice it all. Very light, very soft, very good ventilation. Highly recommended.

Too bad that the weather forecast for the main winter competition promises +2C and slight rain. -8..-10C would have been perfect.

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