Poor feeling from the front

Like you I'm an ex-motorcycle racer and front end feel is everything to going fast and getting your flow on.

Your bike, while not super long in the front end, has an absurdly short chainstay length for an XL at 430mm. Most mountain bikers don't know the difference (just like most street riders don't know the difference), but what is happening is that your front end doesn't have enough weight on it and has very poor traction. Similar to if you raised the front end on your sport bike by sliding the forks down in the clamps.

Here is what you can do:

1) soften the front end. front sag is set in the attack position standing at 22%. Rear sag is set while seated for pedaling at 30%.
2) Buy the grippiest front tire in existence, the Tioga Edge 22 SOFT.Must be the SOFT. At your weight 24 psi is about as low as I'd go for a front tire.Going to a faster rolling lower traction rear tire can also improve balance, not to mention reduce rolling resistance.
3) Slide your seat forward and run a 50-60mm stem. Ideal stem length is really about 40-45, but in your case you can make a calculated trade off. Longer stems require more steering arc, like steering a little motor boat with a longer tiller has a larger arc to pass through.
4) Awkwardly push extremely hard on your grips in the turns. Like really hard. It will hook up better. It also will be much more difficult to quickly change direction. But in a long flat turn that really stresses the front end traction with nothing to catch your tire, it really works.
5) Buy a new bike. A long travel XL needs a chainstay length in the 450-460mm range to work correctly.

GL.

Suns_PSD said:

Like you I'm an ex-motorcycle racer and front end feel is everything to going fast and getting your flow on.

Your bike, while not super long in the front end, has an absurdly short chainstay length for an XL at 430mm. Most mountain bikers don't know the difference (just like most street riders don't know the difference), but what is happening is that your front end doesn't have enough weight on it and has very poor traction. Similar to if you raised the front end on your sport bike by sliding the forks down in the clamps.

Here is what you can do:

1) soften the front end. front sag is set in the attack position standing at 22%. Rear sag is set while seated for pedaling at 30%.
2) Buy the grippiest front tire in existence, the Tioga Edge 22 SOFT.Must be the SOFT. At your weight 24 psi is about as low as I'd go for a front tire.Going to a faster rolling lower traction rear tire can also improve balance, not to mention reduce rolling resistance.
3) Slide your seat forward and run a 50-60mm stem. Ideal stem length is really about 40-45, but in your case you can make a calculated trade off. Longer stems require more steering arc, like steering a little motor boat with a longer tiller has a larger arc to pass through.
4) Awkwardly push extremely hard on your grips in the turns. Like really hard. It will hook up better. It also will be much more difficult to quickly change direction. But in a long flat turn that really stresses the front end traction with nothing to catch your tire, it really works.
5) Buy a new bike. A long travel XL needs a chainstay length in the 450-460mm range to work correctly.

GL.

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The tires on the front and back are 2.6" that I ran at 25 lbs . Felt pretty much the same as when I ran them higher. I see the Tioga Edge only comes in 2.5 which probably doesnt mean anything. I think I will try changing front tire 1st maybe move the seat foward before I make any major changes to see if that makes any difference before transfer more weight forward. I dont mind a loose back end, rather fun but My trust is not there at all on that front end, it unnerves me practically the entire ride and I feel if I push to hard on the front it will go bye bye.
Probably wait on buying a new bike. I hardly get out and ride this one beings I have to load it in the truck and drive it somewhere to ride. Thats why I like my Trek Madone 6.5 carbon road bike. I can just get on it and go ride, have miles of paved trails in my area with access just across the street.

I have spent numerus hours out at the race track with my Ducati 999R Xerox I still have and a GSXR 1000 i no longer have. I even had a Polini that was crazy fun to ride.
I also commute on a Motard everyday.

im assuming your fairly new to mtb....

technique.

try riding down the street. in a straight line. keep your body vertical over the bike and drop one side of the bars as low as you can and keep going straight. the tires want to turn the bike and you have to fight to go straight.

practice this both sides.

when your comfortable doing it, make a turn like this and exaggerate dropping the bar on purpose. practice on the pavement - use a spot on the ground that makes an easy reference.


this will teach/show the difference between street and mtb:
the bike is light and you are not. so moving the bike is the fast way to transition into the turn.
the edges of the tires have a specific lean angle for best grip, this technique gets the edges down while you remain up over the bike ready to react to a slide.


note: the butcher tire pretty much has straight up and down vs full lean sets of knobs. an intermediate tire like a maxxis rekon has more transition knobs supporting partial lean angles better.

bike suspension setup.

this is a setup for a learner and for front end grip.

any bike with too much rear sag becomes a plow machine. front end push is a horrible thing.

1). sit your butt on the seat and just lift your feet, dont bounce. measure shock sag. set it up for 22%. less sag keeps weight transfer forward bias. its a long travel rear so excessive sag will magnify front push.

2). set the front for 30% how??? standing position while balanced in your ready position. elbow to the wall to steady you can be helpful. again dont bounce.

note: the ready position is standing with light pressure on the hands. so you dont fall forward or barely fell forward if you lifted your hands off the bars.

3). front end feedback is affected by rebound settings on bottom of the fork. open it up to the fastest setting this shouldnt be a problem slow it down a bit if necessary but try open first.


go ride the bike.

between this setup and standing up over the bike while the bike does the turning, you will find much more of the feedback you want.

i dont ride while leaning forward on the handlebars.

hardpan terrain = worst kind, hard to get grip, not easy to ride for anyone

Bacon Fat said:

You need to work on your technique and body bike separation. I used to race 600SS As a road racer, you are used to leaning in your body heavily and trying to keep the bike on the meat of the tires. You need to lean the bike more, get your elbow up and out and push in on the outside bar. Point your hips and head where you want to go.

The vague feeling is the lack of transition knobs from the center to cornering knobs. It really messes with your confidence as you lean into a corner, you aren't sure if it will hold or not until you get to the cornering knob. You have to transition faster thru the that area of the tire and get onto the cornering knobs. Leaning your body too much into the corner will keep you in that vague transition area. So dump that bike onto its side.

I would work on body position first and not worry about changing any parts.

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You are probably right about body position. I have ridden the bike as stated only 2 times aggressively with advanced riders. I did ride it 2 other times but with my dogs at a slower pace up where I work in the back country. Mostly up hill and on the down hill I went slow with them not to push them to hard beings they are both 140 lbs (see attached photo)
I had spent many years on a hard tail Cannondale but I mostly did long up hill climbs. This bike is massive compared to it.