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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Just curious on what peoples thoughts are on the subject. With the success of the Sherman and Dorado lines and Fox ready to hit the beach head with their new DH and FR forks has Marzocchi passed it's zenith?

For those who are not familiar with the term "Jump the Shark," got to www.jumptheshark.com

Also, how do you get the poll thingy to work?
 

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No, I believe they're still improving their products and along with the "new and improved" 888 and 66, they're still developing better products than before and probably better than most of the competition (just think Rock Shox and to a lesser extent, Manitou, with their lower end forks to name a couple)

I think Rock Shox is more a good company to look at... much more than Marzocchi

---Matt---
 

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With the fact that the 888 is lighter than the dorado and cheaper than the dorado, I don't think your argument holds much water. Manitou has had problems with their new 32mm x-works dorado in terms of the intermals (they wont release it untill it works better). Marzocchi on the other hand has been making a fork that weighs about the same as the X-works dorado with 35mm stanchions for almost 4 years now.

Also, consider that the firefly is about 5.4lbs (it might be a little more for 2005 since they've moved to a steel steerer for 2005). It simply isn't that light, a marzocchi Z150SL is about 5.2lbs. Marzocchi is also comming out with a 6lb 170mm single crown fork as well, and a bunch of other new ones for 2005. I don't think you can say that they are getting passed by manitou...
 

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Jm. said:
With the fact that the 888 is lighter than the dorado and cheaper than the dorado, I don't think your argument holds much water. Manitou has had problems with their new 32mm x-works dorado in terms of the intermals (they wont release it untill it works better). Marzocchi on the other hand has been making a fork that weighs about the same as the X-works dorado with 35mm stanchions for almost 4 years now.

Also, consider that the firefly is about 5.4lbs (it might be a little more for 2005 since they've moved to a steel steerer for 2005). It simply isn't that light, a marzocchi Z150SL is about 5.2lbs. Marzocchi is also comming out with a 6lb 170mm single crown fork as well, and a bunch of other new ones for 2005. I don't think you can say that they are getting passed by manitou...
agreed
 

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aaarrrggghh!
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Marzocchi still rules

From my personal experience, Marzocchi is still tops in my book. I ride a 03' Super T and 03' Z1. I've also had other Marz. and RS and Manitou. For durability I don't think you can surpass Marz. Friends I ride with have had Sliders and Boxxers and broken them both doing things that in my opinion weren't outside the scope of the fork. It seems that all that plastic bs inside Manitou forks just breaks apart and requires replacement soon after purchase.

I might be wrong here but I just don't trust anything else on my bike but a Marz. Secondly, since money doesn't grow on my tree, I'll take the durability of a Marz. to anything else out there simply from a price perspective.
 

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In my eyes, Zokie' is still on top. Manitou is improving, and Fox is dabbing in... but as a whole... the ease of use, the durability, and the feeling of Zokie's can't be beat.

I've owned forks from almost all of the manufacturers... and Zokie has BY far impressed me the most. My 888 is absolute BUTTER.

I've owned several Manitou's... even SX-Ti's from "back in the day" (remember the green palmer edition? :D )

Rock Shox still feel over-sprung & under-damped, and Manitou... you just have to PAY big-time for a decent fork.

Zokie has a fork for everyone's budget, and riding style. I'll definitely be a zokie rider for a WHILE.


-Matt
 

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Marzocchi---nothing can match it. their forks are good quality and reliable. and nothing, nothing can beat a shiver or a monster T. these forks are built to give top peformance for many years. their value dosent decay as fast as most forks either. many people are still willing to give $500 for a 2001 monster T.
 

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Jm. said:
With the fact that the 888 is lighter than the dorado and cheaper than the dorado, I don't think your argument holds much water.<snip>

<snip>Marzocchi is also comming out with a 6lb 170mm single crown fork as well, and a bunch of other new ones for 2005.<snip>
Two comments:

A) technology wise, I think that the rest of the fork industry is providing both their old, reliable technology (TPC+ for instance), and newer, more sophisticated technology (SPV). Growing pains or now, Marz. is still sitting there with their standard cartridge dampers, which work fine, but they are not growing much in the technology department.

B) Marzocchi has never had a pre-release accurate fork weight since the beginning of time. I'd say the claim of a 6lb, 170mm SC is a LOT premature...
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
There are signs...

That they are responding to the increased competition. The true thru axle on the 66 is a step in the right direction although I'm not sold on 7" SC's. Still, I think that their market share is going to be hurt with the new Fox forks coming for '05.

I'd be pleased to see a real update to the Shiver happen though. It's still a great fork but they might be able to improve it with new dampers similar to the 888 (more tunability and lighter weight).
 

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That would be up to Marzocchi...

They could rest on their laurals & still be an Killer fork. If they want to stay innovative, raising the bar & stay on top then they better take a lesson from the cockroach...adapt. Sooner or later Manitou will dial in SPV, TPC & some other technology they could gleen some killer initials from, & then Marzocchi will be the fork they talk about when they say "Back in th' day when Marzocchi was the best before insert future killer fork maker here came up with that killer fork that works like the 5th Element shock. I ride a Slider + now, but I really like the new Suka T & I would be riding it if Santa Cruz had offered it when I ordered my Bullit. Marzocchi has only built a small % of it customer base from the Zokie Gals, the forks are the real draw. Gotta love them Zokie Girls though.
 

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nope

what looks like "jumping the shark" actually is just Fox and Manitou stepping up with improved products. that's good for all of us, but it's not an indicator of Marzocchi going on a downward curve.

you are linking two separate, distinct phenomena with a guess. I'd say it's a fair guess, but an inaccurate one.
 

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binary visions said:
B) Marzocchi has never had a pre-release accurate fork weight since the beginning of time. I'd say the claim of a 6lb, 170mm SC is a LOT premature...
Marzocchi's been pretty good about it in the last few years, the Z1SL and Z150SL are pretty good examples. It doesn't seem like they are out there to make outrageous claims about the weight (like them and other companies have done in the past).

And about HSCV, well that is just one cartridge, there are changes for 2005 as far as damping and adjustments are concerned, and the 888 is not just the "standard" catridge as you claim, it's quite a bit different and has low/high speed adjustments.

Personally, I'd like to see the 26mm shiver cartridges in the shiver DC fork, but I don't think that will happen :D

Let's not forget that many people are not happy with the SPV performance, especially the low-speed performance. It might get better, it might remain "different, and people will probably buy it for certain advantages that it has (and dealing with any disadvantage). I agree with Gonzo that Manitou has "stepped up" in the recent years. I think it remains to be seen if Rockshox will, they are still using the POS ported dampers on many of their forks, and if there is a company that we have seen almost no suspension innovation from, this would be the one. The best they got is "pure", which is a TPC ripoff....
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I'm not sure they are separate

How a company responds to competitors is crucial to their long term viability. Part of what is happening is that more players are jumping into a market the Marzocchi has dominated in the past. It's only natural that this will lead to some erosion in market share as there are more choices. It is also true that the arrival of more competitors forces the dominant company (or companies) to repond quicker with new products and innovations. This can be difficult because the lack of competition generally leads to complacency.

So far, I have not given an opinion on whether or not I think Marzocchi has jumped the shark. I think there are signs that they have but there are also signs that they are moving forward. A positive sign as I mentioned is a SC with a true thru axle. Will QR20 go away? Is the 66 something they would have built without the Breakout+ being on the market? Will they offer a travel adjust on a DC fork? I hope Marzocchi continues to be a player since more options are good for the consumer (us).
 

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Marzocchi jumped the shark when they decided it was ok to package crappy SSV dampers in the same chassis of their high end forks. It got worse when they thought 3 piece 'cryofit' lowers that created a seal for the fork was a good idea, and they thought the QR20 concept was worth keeping over 3 seperate iterations. Perhaps they are salvaging themselves, but even then the 888 has been having problems, although its not known if this is design or manufacturing (well, at least we dont know).

of course, i'm still pissed that my 99 z1 dropoff is a piece of crap trapped in a nice chassis.:mad:

As for SPV type stuff, pure bandwagonism. The rules that apply to rear suspension do not necessarily apply to the front; they both essentially behave differently and have different performance requirments. At least as applied to DH....

whats funny is probably their best well-rounded fork with the least comprimises, the Shiver, is also their most underated and practically abandoned by them (probably due to their chi-chi WC racers....what do they know about what the average riders needs are?). The fork itself isnt that heavy, its the large oil volume and springs. With some revisions, they could use a low oil volume system like the 888, nix a spring, a little more refinement and there you have a lower-midweight well performing and extremely reliable fork.
 

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Jm, I even got another one of those crappy 150SLs.

Jm. said:
Marzocchi's been pretty good about it in the last few years, the Z1SL and Z150SL are pretty good examples. It doesn't seem like they are out there to make outrageous claims about the weight (like them and other companies have done in the past).

And about HSCV, well that is just one cartridge, there are changes for 2005 as far as damping and adjustments are concerned, and the 888 is not just the "standard" catridge as you claim, it's quite a bit different and has low/high speed adjustments.

Personally, I'd like to see the 26mm shiver cartridges in the shiver DC fork, but I don't think that will happen :D

Let's not forget that many people are not happy with the SPV performance, especially the low-speed performance. It might get better, it might remain "different, and people will probably buy it for certain advantages that it has (and dealing with any disadvantage). I agree with Gonzo that Manitou has "stepped up" in the recent years. I think it remains to be seen if Rockshox will, they are still using the POS ported dampers on many of their forks, and if there is a company that we have seen almost no suspension innovation from, this would be the one. The best they got is "pure", which is a TPC ripoff....
Yuuck! An air fork and a single crown to boot--how bad can it get? LOL! After getting that first 150SL at the first of the year, I wound up selling my 20mm Firefly to one of the other guys at the shop. My '00 Big hit has been leaning against the wall for the last three months while I've been ruminating over what fork to put back on it after the Sherman. I've looked and listened to all the news coming out about different forks in the 6" range for aggressive trail and light FR, and still haven't come upon anything else that tops this fork when function, weight, durability, and even price are concerned. That Maverick looked tempting, but I'm just not getting into a proprietary hub. I too am suspicious about the small bump compliance of these new SPV systems, so I'm going to wait and see how all of it shakes out for a year. I've hammered this first 150SL for many months now and am very impressed with it. I'll stick with my Super T for my bigger hit bike, but this 150SL is an awesome all-around fork. I would never have expected this performance from an air fork. I've even come to love the QR20 system, once I realized a better way of installing the wheel slightly differently than what Zoke recommends. Marzocchi falling behind?...I hardly doubt it.
 

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If anything Marzocchi is ahead and only getting better. Just look at the Topic at the top of the Downhill/freeride section/forum...

Fox and Manitou coming out with a better product will only push Marzocchi to go for better products in the future. Marzocchi as far as I am concerned is the best, and it will remain that way for awhile. Not that they have the best, but they do have something for everyone.
 

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So Zokie has jumped "IF".....

they let other manuf. get over on them w/stuff like SPV, lighter forks & such w/no response. Zokie has it's destiny in palm of its hand, so to speak. They're smart fellows, they didn't get to the point to where all of you guys are standing by them by resting on their laurals. Seeking new talent & new ideas are the keys to being industry leaders & owning the market. Realisticly, as I beleive someone else has stated, the competition can only be good for you & me. I say let'em fight it out & keep hollarin' for more, you know how easy we get bored w/the same ol'stuff. Come on Zokie, AIM FOR TH' FENCE!!!!! WE'RE OUT HERE WAITIN' ON YOU TO SWING!!!!! :cool:
 

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Marzocchi all the way! I'v been on board since the DH 3 matter of fact I still have it and it still cycles like it was new, now thats reliability. I remember when Marzocchi first came out with open bath technology ,everyone else was still messing around with MCU's. It took years before others quietly jumped on the band wagon. I still remember when ROCK SHOX came out with the Judy 100. New technology is good and will benefit us all,SPV etc. but reliability is the bottom line and thats one thing that Marzocchi has. If it ain't broke, don't fix it!
 
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