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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Who is in charge of determining which trails are biker friendly? And how does a seasonal trail for bikes get changed to no bikes ever? What criteria or is there a criterion in which trails are judged on biking access? Anybody know?
 

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The answer to all questions is the responsible land manager, obviously varying from trail system to trail system. For example, Bent Creek trails are managed differently than the rest of Pisgah due to the expiremental forest.
In general, trails may be judged not biker friendly if hiker traffic is exceptionally heavy, the trail could not sustain increased traffic, and/or there could be safety concerns caused by the presence of bikers due to either user conflict or the trail itself not really being rideable (Looking Glass, for example).
Seasonal status tends to be linked to hiker presence. For example, Cat Gap is closed to bikes in summer because of too much potential for user conflict during the busy months. Other trails like Pink Beds cannot sustain biker traffic during typically wetter times of the year.
The process of changing trail status varies from one land management entity to another, but it's always a bureaucratic quagmire.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
The Glare!

Mike Brown said:
The answer to all questions is the responsible land manager, obviously varying from trail system to trail system. For example, Bent Creek trails are managed differently than the rest of Pisgah due to the expiremental forest.
In general, trails may be judged not biker friendly if hiker traffic is exceptionally heavy, the trail could not sustain increased traffic, and/or there could be safety concerns caused by the presence of bikers due to either user conflict or the trail itself not really being rideable (Looking Glass, for example).
Seasonal status tends to be linked to hiker presence. For example, Cat Gap is closed to bikes in summer because of too much potential for user conflict during the busy months. Other trails like Pink Beds cannot sustain biker traffic during typically wetter times of the year.
The process of changing trail status varies from one land management entity to another, but it's always a bureaucratic quagmire.
Responsible land Manager....now thats funny, Bureaucratic quagmire sounds right.
 

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Don't like Mike's answer, how about this one....

...YOU !

If you want a trail to be open to mountain bikes, become involved and work towards making it happen. You bite back with such sarcasm, Mike is correct in that the "land management agency" determines if a trail is legal or illegal to ride a bike on. However, voice your desire to have a trail open to bikes, then work towards making it happen, we pay the salary of these "land managers" as you want to call them.

Get involved and be the change you want to see. Or type out frustrations, poach trails and get busted. You make the call.

Ben
 

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redriderbb said:
...YOU !

If you want a trail to be open to mountain bikes, become involved and work towards making it happen. You bite back with such sarcasm, Mike is correct in that the "land management agency" determines if a trail is legal or illegal to ride a bike on. However, voice your desire to have a trail open to bikes, then work towards making it happen, we pay the salary of these "land managers" as you want to call them.

Get involved and be the change you want to see. Or type out frustrations, poach trails and get busted. You make the call.

Ben
I am with you, Ben. I tend to hear alot more *****in', compared to folks taking action.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I like Mike!

redriderbb said:
...YOU !

If you want a trail to be open to mountain bikes, become involved and work towards making it happen. You bite back with such sarcasm, Mike is correct in that the "land management agency" determines if a trail is legal or illegal to ride a bike on. However, voice your desire to have a trail open to bikes, then work towards making it happen, we pay the salary of these "land managers" as you want to call them.

Get involved and be the change you want to see. Or type out frustrations, poach trails and get busted. You make the call.

Ben
Ohh... I thought Mike gave a good answer, but my sarcasm does seem to flare up when I'm typing especially on this forum.The answer I really wanted was a more specific one.What do you mean we pay thier salaries? Are they government employees?I just don't know thats why I asked.Is there a group of people we can call or one or two people that can we could fax a request, or does a group like PAS have to do a study of a trail or agree to help maintain it or maybe change it to accommodate bikes?It only takes a few minutes to join an organization, but some meetings are hard to attend( Time wise) and not all meetings are structured toward the topic of changing trails from no-bikes to biker friendly trails. I can't get involed if I don't know how.Come on guys don't reply mad, I just want a little insight.
 

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Okay here you go.

Join PAS and tell them YOU want to change the legal status of a trail. If you "put in a request" for THEM to do it you are likely to get no real response because they are all already working on things that THEY want to see happen, things like rides and other trail related projects, things they each take personal investment in. PAS is what you make of it.

Once you have joined, the organization and its over 3,000 (SORBA) members then lend credibility to your cause. Take this credibility and approach whoever the land manager is, US Forest Service, State Park, City or County, maybe even a private (Conservation Group) property. If you ask folks inside of PAS they can probably lend a hand, but they are really there as peers to support you more than anything.

Now when dealing with the land manager, the best approach is to develop a relationship with them first. Work with the PAS "Trail Liason" to find out what kind of a person they are and how to approach them about changing trail status. Again the currently active members are there for support. Once you have figured out what angle to approach the land manager from do everything you can for them. If an application or formal letter has to be written, you write it and let them sign it. If a study has to be conducted, you help PAS raise the funds and pay for it. Have an answer to every road block they can put up.

It is important to understand it is a bureaucracy, but not impossible to navigate. The question is do you care about it enough to do something or do you just want others to do it for you. If you want others to do it, you better be RICH.

Hope that helps,
Ben
 

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Sorry to disappoint...

In order to effect a public policy change wouldn't you rather it take someone with the passion to see it through. Imagine if there were a number and the loudest voices won. We wouldn't be on any trails, they would all be hiker only, and horses would rule Squirrel Gap.

Seriously, if you really want something to happen then you are the right person for the job.

Pedal and enjoy what we DO have. Oh, and THANK the folks that put in the commitment every chance you get, they don't hear it often enough.

Ben
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I think I just have a problem with rules. When I see a sign with the no-bike sticker I think why not-I think who say's I can't- I think what will happen if I ride it- I think I've never gotten a ticket so maybe I'm long over due to get in trouble.Your right though I'm glad people do make the commitment. I've been trying to make one of the night rides at BC,I've been riding twice a week there at night, but I want to meet a few more PAS members I'll eventually meet up with you.
 

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motobutane said:
Wow that would take alot of commitment. I guess I was hoping for a 1-800 change-a-trail status hot line. Thanks for the insight Ben.
I can imagine the menu system.

Press 1 for English. Para habla espanol, dos.

Press 3 for "Everyone poaches this trail anyway, it might as well be legal."

Press 4 for "It's not even on the map and there are no markers to tell you whether it's legal or not."

Press 5 for "Close this trail to shuttle cocks"

Press 6 for "Remove seasonal trail status"

Press 7 for "Remove rock and log obstacles from Green's Lick"

Press 8 for "Whine about trail modification even though you weren't at the last work day"

:p
 

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motobutane said:
When I see a sign with the no-bike sticker I think why not
Why not? Because you leave behind tell-tale tire tracks and big-ring-marks in downfall.

Since you've never been caught and the hiker that gets pissed off by the intrusion doesn't have a specific vehicle/face/bike to describe to the man, he will march over to the ranger station and complain about MOUNTAIN BIKERS.... not about one guy with a problem with authority.

That, then, leads to bigger problems than.... being a guy with a problem with authority.

That's why not. Think about the rest of us maaaaaaaaannnnnnnnnn.

My $0.02

*edit* also, why they may say not... or whatever.... is usually, as already noted, due to environmental or user conflict reasons.... not mountainbikerhate.
 

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"
motobutane said:
I think I just have a problem with rules. When I see a sign with the no-bike sticker I think why not......"

Well now, are we not being a bit selfish. Maybe, just maybe, there are folks who want to be able to hike on a trail and have no chance of seeing bikes (unless someone is poaching it).

We need hiking only trails in our area, in addition to all the miles of shared use trails (hike/bike/horse or hike/bike). It would be good to see some bike only trails where we can design and build without having to worry about use conflict, but that is not likely to happen anytime soon. Green's Lick is the closest thing we have to such, we knew during the design/build process that it would be 98% bike traffic and that allowed us to approach the project from a different angle.

We all have problems with rules, at least the ones we don't like. But rules are a reality need in places where too many people want to do too many different things.

Yes, we can work to change some of the rules. Trust me, if it was not for all the hard work of me and others at DuPont we would not have 95% of the trail system open to bikes. As Ben and others have put it, joining PAS and showing up for workdays is the only way to have an effect on change. As Obama said " when it comes to change, we are the ones we have been waiting for.
 

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sorry

but SORBA is a joke. i am all for trail maintenance, and i'll dig whenever Todd calls me, but the sorba ride i went on where big bird and snuffalupagus were getting high in front of EVERYONE was the dumbest **** ever. how many people were on that ride? do you know how many people you left an impression on? mike you still owe me a rear der. and who gives a **** about alexander park. no one.

social pariah my ass
 

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Its gettin deep

park baker said:
but SORBA is a joke. i am all for trail maintenance, and i'll dig whenever Todd calls me, but the sorba ride i went on where ********** and ********* were getting high in front of EVERYONE was the dumbest **** ever. how many people were on that ride? do you know how many people you left an impression on? mike you still owe me a rear der. and who gives a **** about alexander park. no one.

social pariah my ass
Whoa!!! Its getting deep in hereI'm having problems typing because I'm holding my bike over my head so I won't get any skat on it!
 

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Daaaaaaaaaaaammmmmmmmmmmnnnnnnnnn

park baker said:
but SORBA is a joke. i am all for trail maintenance, and i'll dig whenever Todd calls me, but the sorba ride i went on where ********** and ********** were getting high in front of EVERYONE was the dumbest **** ever. how many people were on that ride? do you know how many people you left an impression on? mike you still owe me a rear der. and who gives a **** about alexander park. no one.

social pariah my ass
now.........

LET'S GET IT ON!!!!!!!!!
 

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