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TRACKDADDY
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Also posted in the endurance race forum here.
Other than the Cascade Cream Puff 100 and 24hrs Round the Clock are there any other endurance races in the Washington State, Oregon, or Idaho areas? Specifically in Washington State?? I live in Seattle and I am surrounded by some of THE best mountain bike riding in the country and yet there are no 100 milers that I know of?!? I am a singlespeeder and due to a broken tib/fib I will be rehabing riding a geared hard tail. I understand that organizing and throwing any kind of race is a substantial undertaking. I was involved in the planning of the 11th annual Cycle Messenger World Championships in Seattle in 2003. And I know the pain and anguish involved in getting permits and paying for insurance obtaining sponsors blah blah blah.... But as endurance racing seems to be gain in popularity it will only be a matter of time before some kind of event NEEDs to be hosted here in Washington State! I have always thought in light of all of the dedicated single speeders here in WA and OR a Pacific NorthWest Single Speed Championship/beer fest would be a HUGE hit or a Triple Crown Endurance race Sun top/Cyrstal/Dalles Ridge/Palisades/Noble Knob/Skookum Flats?? over 10,000ft of elevation 65miles plus ??? Any ideas contact me Brandon Lockwood [email protected]
 

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24 Hours of Adrenalin was going to have a race at Snoqualmie Pass a couple of years ago but I think it was canceled at the last minute because there werent enough riders. Rather than a climbing type race something along 24 Hours in the Old Pueblo where you have a relatively flat course would be much more appealing. You also need to have an area where people can camp. Triple Crown is way to hard and only a handful of people sign up on BBTC. The Spokane race was pretty popular, I am not sure if there is room for another race. BC also had a 24 hr in the past and of course Test of Metal. The Old Pueblo race is actually fairly popular with NW racers coming in Feb with a chance to get a little sun.

I do agree with you that Seattle should have a decent endurance race fairly close in. We also dont have a decent downhill race series or anything like Whistler for recreation.

BTW I like that cycle messenger race you had where you raced without any tires. Now that was a real race.
 

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TRACKDADDY
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
borregokid said:
24 Hours of Adrenalin was going to have a race at Snoqualmie Pass a couple of years ago but I think it was canceled at the last minute because there werent enough riders. Rather than a climbing type race something along 24 Hours in the Old Pueblo where you have a relatively flat course would be much more appealing. You also need to have an area where people can camp. Triple Crown is way to hard and only a handful of people sign up on BBTC. The Spokane race was pretty popular, I am not sure if there is room for another race. BC also had a 24 hr in the past and of course Test of Metal. The Old Pueblo race is actually fairly popular with NW racers coming in Feb with a chance to get a little sun.

I do agree with you that Seattle should have a decent endurance race fairly close in. We also dont have a decent downhill race series or anything like Whistler for recreation.

BTW I like that cycle messenger race you had where you raced without any tires. Now that was a real race.
The 24hrs of Snoqualmie was the same weekend as the 2003 CMWC in Sep. And yes it was cancelled due to not enough pre-registered riders, but I think their promotion was severely lacking!!! The main reason there is not a decent downhill series in WA is because of access and parking issues! I am not a downhiller by any means but one of my best friends was involved in the WA series planning and he came across roadblock after roadblock due to access problems! I think there are enough places in our gigantic state where we could come up with a 100mile or 50mile course!!! I was talking with some people after the 2004 Tour de Tunnel and they suggested Port Townsend or somewhere on the Penisula maybe at a fairgrounds to hold a weekend long PNW Singlespeed Championship/Beer Festival?.... As far as no tires those are called RIM RIDES and are not usually a race they are just large group rides for fun...
 

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I agree, WA could definitely use an endurance race or two. There are some semi-local though, up in BC. Personally, I'd like to see a few 'marathon' type events. I doubt if I'd bother doing one in the 410/greenwater area, b/c I don't think they would be that exciting of courses, but I think that the mad lake area would be great for one (made lake marathon perhaps?), as would be cap forest on the west side of the mtn. Devils Gulch would be good for one too.

Race promotion is a bunch of work, but its not THAT hard. I've done a few before, and have thought about taking something like this on in a few years when other volunteer commitments have subsided.
 

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Brandon448 said:
Other than the Cascade Cream Puff 100 and 24hrs Round the Clock are there any other endurance races in the Washington State, Oregon, or Idaho areas?
12/24 Hours of Willamette Pass, August 5-6. Great course w/ a 4-5 mile downhill and this year they increased the loop from 11 miles to around 14 miles with even more singletrack.

You're right, there's no endurance race in WA. Port T sounds like it might be a fun place to hold a PNW Singlespeed Festival. I'd attend. Singlespeed is painfully good fun.:D
 

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TRACKDADDY
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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
JRA said:
12/24 Hours of Willamette Pass, August 5-6. Great course w/ a 4-5 mile downhill and this year they increased the loop from 11 miles to around 14 miles with even more singletrack.

You're right, there's no endurance race in WA. Port T sounds like it might be a fun place to hold a PNW Singlespeed Festival. I'd attend. Singlespeed is painfully good fun.:D
Your link is bad :( I am interested... I think if there was enough of us that have been "thinking about it for awhile" we should band together and get'r done!!!! Maybe for 2007??? give us plenty of time to make it right I hate events thrown together at the last minute!! I personally am not interested in hosting an event to "make a profit" I just want to race an endurance race close to home!!!!
 

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TRACKDADDY
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Well I am currently recovering from recent surgery on my broken leg but sometime soon we should all get together somewhere central and start throwing ideas around. One of my best friends works for a VERY reputable timing company that can also handle online registration... Any ideas email me at [email protected] My name is Brandon Lockwood and as I recover I want to be riding as much as I can!!!!!!
 

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Mornin'
I was talking to someone who did the Ruta de la Conquistadors a couple of years ago, and his ears pricked right up at the thought of a NW endurance event. Or events. So the interest is definitely there. This guy wouldn't race a Norba event either, mainly because the courses are boring. Just talking to people, I know he's far from the only one.
I also did a spot of race promotion a few years ago, and it is fun. In a pressurized-masochism sort of way. I'd like to start a discussion of a couple of basics.
1) Where?
A short-loop is logistically easier, but I think the riders would find it boring pretty quickly. As well, a short-loop course tends to get pretty torn up by the later part of the event.
A long out 'n back a la leadville is more manageable, but it's large and people can get lost big. A long-loop course (25-50 mi) is probably the best balance between manageability and course quality. Racer support is easier too. And there is always the possibility of spectators.
So: Where? An endurance course is almost certain to wind up requiring public land. More, public land with accessible camping, parking and (hopefully) showers.That sounds like one of the state forests to me, or possibly a national forest. Somewhere without a huge Bubba population would be pleasant. Last thing I'd want to do at mile 80 is dodge CR-250's in the woods.
I've dealt with the forest service and the DNR in the past, and don't find them difficult. They mainly want all the paperwork filled correctly, all permits in order, and not to be bothered by the event. Nunez lost his permits in Capital years ago because he could not (or would not) get the parking mess under control.
2) Who?
Private land is a tempting thought, but it turns any injury into a liability nightmare. I'm enough out of date that I have no idea which sanctioning body would sell liability insurance to an endurance event, but it's a must-have. The forest service and the DNR both require proof of it before an event leaves the pad, as would any intelligent private landowner.
I have no idea who leadville and the creampuff use but finding out should be easy enough.
Medical support is another thing that DNR and the forest service require, and that's $$.
3) What format?
I personally favor the triple-crown as an event, but I'm kinda distorted and I like to climb. I'm also very fond of the riding in that valley.
4) Title sponsor?
And of course all the other bits ' n pieces of putting on a race. Teams? Prizes? Cash payouts?

And in the course of writing this novel, I had a really broken sort of a thought. How about a mountain-bike stage race?
 

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Everyone knows about the Cascade Triple Crown but who wants to do it. If you advertised it and you ran the race right after the snow melted with a winner take all purse you might get 30 racers-max. The Cap forest race two years ago I think had 28 racers. The ideal race course I think would be in the middle of the state and would be relatively flat. I wouldnt mind seeing a few women coming out to race and they wont come out to race on extremely hard courses.

The Indie Series has been pretty successful. The races that are run earlier in the year have bigger attendance than the later races. Tomorrows race at Greenwater may only have 100-150 racers. If someone was going to do an endurance race they should tie it to the Indie Series and have it early enough in the year while interest is still pretty high. From what I can see of racing its very difficult to run an independent race outside of the Indie Series. If Winthrop has a race in October that will be one of only two totally independent races in the state.
 

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TRACKDADDY
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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Hello everybody,

My name is Brandon Lockwood and I was the one who started this thread. I totally understand the nightmares/stress level of planning big and small events. I was on the planning committee as medical director for the 11th annual Cycle Messenger World Championships held here in Seattle in 2003 and I am currently trying to deal with my cycling teams event promotion of a simple USCF indoor roller race in Aug and our venue just pulled their support out from under us last week!!!! I would love to help promot, plan, throw, and race in this PNW endurance event. With the coming together this year of the new "National Ultra-Endurance Mountain Bike 100 Series" http://www.usmtb100.com/MX/ The need for a PNW event beyond the Cascade Cream Puff 100 is there!! Insurance is one of the biggest hurddles but obviously it can be had we just need to ask around. As for all of the other 100 miler races they brag about how much elevation the climb, how much singletrack vs. fire road, and most have to have a cap on participants and a lottery to get in due to popularity!! As far a medical it does not have to be $$ in the past I volunteered as an EMT with the WIM series "Mountain Bike Patrol-Medics" who were mostly ski patrollers with nothing to do in the summer, Andrew Dayton is the man here in Seattle. I had almost 22 first-aid/emts for CMWC I gave them a t-shirt and I got Outdoor Research to donate First-Aid kits. I had it all done to the point the SFD Fire Marshal was beyond impressed and we did not have to hire the VERY expensive SFD medics. It can be done!! I would really like to help advise in the planning and promotion of this PNW Endurance race but I am NO director or promotor. I want to race more than be in charge. But it can be done even if we start it totally grassroots get 15-20 people together to "race a course" and watch it grow from there??
I don't feel that it HAS to be a part of the Indie Series. Remember all of the Indie Series races were once their own separete independant races above and beyond the WIM series and they survived and flurished..... Flat is boring especially for 50 or 100 miles plus this is freak'in Washington state not Iowa we are known for our Mountains that we can go MOUNTAIN biking in and around!!
 

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2 cents

Hi Gents,

La Ruta rider chime'n in. This Triple race would be genius! Don't know much about race organization but as far as courses go this would be epic. Two nearby examples are the Creampuff: 110 entries at $200.00 which sells out in 1 week. Old course 3 laps 100 miles, with 16,000 -18,000 ft of climbing with 17 miles of gravel road climbing each lap followed by some incredible singletrack. Test of Metal: 850 entries at $65.00 selling out in less than 4 hours. Course is roughly 40 miles with around 5,000 ft of climbing with some very technical sections, course changes a little every year. The Triple would fall inbetween these and as far as distance and climbing but would bring some great single track in a cool area I mean come on think of the views of Rainier from the course. Depending on start & finish areas one could include options of an easier double for drawing first time endurance people or younger participants to dabble without fully committing. Possible a training camp to get people ready and I would also recommend researching the amount of camping nearby as I am sure they will be utilized by the event.
 

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TRACKDADDY
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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I too think it is HUGELY possible between $65 and $200 people are more than willing to ride their butts into the ground and pay for the privalige to do so! In response to the question that it has to be a part of thelocal Indie Series I would love for it to be associated because I think the Indie Series has done very good things for XC racing in WA BUT if we could some how develop the race to be a part of the National Ultra Endurance Mountain Bike 100 Series think of the turn-out!!! I think Greenwater and the Triple crown would be great because there is available camping and if we could work a deal with Crystal Mountain then we could possibly have an awesome venue with parking and facilities???? anyway I am glad to see more people putting their 2 cents into the discussion... KEEP THEM COMING it will and can happen!!!!
 

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here is what i think...

I think that people want a challange. I dont think that people want a looped course, who wants to ride in circles. I mean I have done it a bunch a la 24 hr racing, and the puff a few years back, but three is the max. Two fifty mile loops might be a possibility. I know that there is logistics and aid stations and all of that. So the triple crown may be an option, there are a lot of trails in that area and places to provide aid stations. I was just out there for an indie series race, short, but there is alot of camping area,and a place to set up timing and the such. I plan to go out and explore a bit more in the near future, but I definatly think that this area could hold a 100 miler and it would be of epic proportions. also if you got crystal mountain invloved it may be a help so that is certainly another option, certainly one worth checking out.
For those of you out there that think that it needs to be flat, look at cream puff, 100 miles 18,000 ft of climbing, it sells out every year. I am friends with Boris the promoter of the Endurance 100, it is 100 miles with 18, 600 ft of climbing with 95 miles of single track right out of park city, ut. like i said before i think people want a challange.
our real challange is the location of washington state, but that is only minor as people will come if they hear that it is epic, we as humans are always looking for new challanges and obstacle to over come. the area on 410 has some great potential for an amazing ride race, sure it will probably be small the first year or two, but there in lies part of our challange, or abiltiy to keep it all in perspective. I would love to see a race next year out in that area, and be a part of it. Like i said I plan to do some scouting in the area, and to ride my own version of the triple crown before the end of the season that is if everything goes well in the recon phase of it all. so lets make it happen.
 

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How Much of a Challenge?

People want challenges but how much? I know there are lots of tri-athletes, adventure racers out there etc. I think there might be a limit to how much people will push themselves. Redmond Cycling Clubs Cannonball race across Washington had a total of 14 riders. The recent BBTC Triple Crown posting went from two riders to one and was finally cancelled. Cascade Creampuff had 100 riders but only 50 or so finished.

An endurance race with the emphasis on teams rather than solo efforts makes the most sense. A course with a lot of logging road wouldnt bother me-you might actually get some women teams signed up. You make each lap about 25 miles and hopefully the whole thing is done in less than 12 hours. The Capitol Peak race almost fits the bill with a lot of climbing and one big loop. It took me three hours to knock out and the best racer in the state 2 hours. You need a course where the average rider can knock off at least 10 mph average. In Tucson at the Old Pueblo riders were knocking off 13mph. Nothing wrong with a fast course.:)
 

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Let's see...
The creampuff is limited to 100 riders, and sells out in what, two days?
The Ramrod is limited to 800, and there were over 2000 lottery entries this year. I saw tickets selling for 5-600$.
The Deathride, Leadville, and every other established endurance ride I know of sell out in seconds. The Cannonball is an exception. 275mi of filthy I-90 shoulder, and is not a particularly pleasant ride. Neither the 'Ball or the S2S are widely advertised or treated as "events". Both operate at the word of mouth level, and I see no reason why the S2S at least would not go as a much larger event. Point being that there are a lot of people out there who like to suffer and are willing to travel to and pay for the privilege.
An endurance event should be something that a rider can take pride in being able to finish at all. 12000+ feet of climbing is not something that the "average rider" is going to "knock off" at 10 mph. The 50% casualty rate at the creampuff is motivation for other riders, not intimidation. Why else does it sell through so fast at 200$/per?

Not flat.

There is even room for two events in Western Washington.
The area between Greenwater and Crystal has more than enough room to lay out a variation on the triple crown, with 10000+ feet of climbing. Camping and facilities are convenient. The FR network and 410 allow reasonable medical access, and course marshaling/marking would not be too difficult. Large, but not complicated. A course could be run up dirt roads and down singletrack, with White River and Skookum to connect the sections. I was concerned with taking racers across 410, but the White river 50 does it every year. I'm planning something triple-crownish by the end of the season as well. I know Corral/Ranger/Palisades pretty well, but I don't know White River or Skookum well and Crystal is an unknown. I need to change that.

There is more than enough trail in the southern half of Capital forest to lay out a large loop endurance course. The Northern half is open to ORV's, and ruts can be historic. Unrideable when wet except by the truly dedicated. The southern half is open to horses but not ORV's, so the ruts are much smaller and the trails actually drain. Equestrians as well don't tend to go really deep into the forest. There are several possible staging areas around the edge of Capital (Porter Creek, Thurston ORV), and more in the interior (Wedekind, Waddell). Med access and marshaling are a bit more problematic because the trail network is more complex and less well-mapped. Not impossible though. And the Bubbas might not be as large a concern as people would think. Serious offroad masochism is something that they can respect.

I see absolutely no reason to connect such event(s) with the Indie series. They're totally different animals. Different courses, different attendance base, different events altogether.
 

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Wow... Eamon Stanley.... Wow.

I finally parted with a Mavic/Deore LX laced by Eamon wheelset I won at Eric's end o' season race at Crow Creek in '95 or something like that. Those outer laced wheels never went out of true. Many, many, thanks...

Back to the racing thread.

The "Lake to Lake" would be cool as well as what I call the "C2C" (Cashmere to Cle Elum) as far as the old scholl one day point to point type races. I'd do that.
 

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Seven Day Endurance Race in BC

Our friends up in British Columbia have come up with a seven day test of endurance similar to the Trans-Rockies race. The race starts in Victoria and ends up in Whistler. Its one race I definitely wont be doing-cost. They havent posted anything yet on cost but even outside the entry fees it looks like it would cost a few dollars.

http://www.sevenbikerace.com/The_Route/

If anyone is interested in an endurance race the 24 Hour Race in the Old Pueblo outside Tucson is coming up in Feb. Its pretty much a bargain for a solo racer with the entree fee only $125. Last year I ran into Jubilee while we were waiting for the start of the race.
 
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