[trhoppe]

After looking at some of the training program examples (lwcoaching, alisondunlapcoaching) on the web, as well as a magazine article from ftptraining.com about training for endurance mtb events(http://www.tomhoppe.com/misc/training/enduro_8_fenner.pdf. http://www.tomhoppe.com/misc/training/enduro_9_fenner.pdf. http://www.tomhoppe.com/misc/training/enduro10_fenner.pdf) , I made up my own training program. Doesn't seem like rocket science. I followed the method from ftptraining.com so far, as I only mapped 3 months out. I will have more training following that, including a taper for before my "big race" which is the SM100.

I just wanted to make sure that I was on the right track here. I ran my heart rate test, and setup my heart rate zones according to http://lwcoaching.com/trainingplans/levelCalcs.htm

Here is my training program: https://spreadsheets0.google.com/ccc?hl=en&key=t8-ANpzDL1G1qC-Y8fZp8bQ&hl=en#gid=0

I made tabs for the months, and then highlighted in green the races that I'll be doing through the year. On the weeks where I do not have races, I follow the full program of intervals, but not weeks leading up to races, I do less intervals and more rest, to make sure I'm good to go for the race.

What do you guys think? Too much? Not enough? This is my 1st year racing, and 2nd year riding, and the whole goal of this is to finish the SM100 with a good time, and actually enjoy that. I also want to place well in the SE Chainbusters series. Finished 4th so far on the first race.

-Tom

 

[flargle]

Too many interval days IMO. Weeks 2 and 4 you have three consecutive days of intervals? That seems nutty to me, but maybe that's what some guys are doing these days?

 

[trhoppe]

While it does seem like a ton of intervals, it's only an hour of training, so I'm not totally killing myself. There idea here is "High Intensity Training" as outlined here: http://www.tomhoppe.com/misc/training/enduro_9_fenner.pdf so you're doing your short training sessions at 85-90% (HR Zone 4). Seems like a solid concept, and seems a lot of the online training programs I see have this methodology. During the week you do short High intensity training, and then do long rides on the weekends with friends.

Not sure if this is "right", but just what I read and understand, therefore the post

-Tom

 

[sprocketjockey9]

Gonna be really good at riding for 5 minutes....

Need to mix it up. All 3 months look the same. Where's the progression? What is gonna make you faster overall?? You need to expand yourself beyond the norm and keep challenging yourself with different and harder workouts that require you to adapt beyond current fitness.

 

[flargle]

While it does seem like a ton of intervals, it's only an hour of training, so I'm not totally killing myself. There idea here is "High Intensity Training" as outlined here: http://www.tomhoppe.com/misc/training/enduro_9_fenner.pdf so you're doing your short training sessions at 85-90% (HR Zone 4). Seems like a solid concept, and seems a lot of the online training programs I see have this methodology. During the week you do short High intensity training, and then do long rides on the weekends with friends.

Not sure if this is "right", but just what I read and understand, therefore the post

-Tom

How many days per week of interval training are you currently doing?

 

[lassiar]

What do you guys think?

 

[trhoppe]

How many days per week of interval training are you currently doing?

Essentially 2. Over the winter I haven't been doing too much weekend riding, but basically did Sufferfest twice a week, and then another ride. Whether on the mtb, road bike, or another trainer ride on the shittier weeks.

Gonna be really good at riding for 5 minutes....

Need to mix it up. All 3 months look the same. Where's the progression? What is gonna make you faster overall?? You need to expand yourself beyond the norm and keep challenging yourself with different and harder workouts that require you to adapt beyond current fitness.

Thanks! Good call. So would this be as simple as adding time to the intervals? The Fenner articles have "Weekly Overload & Variation" so it sounds like I need to build that into this training.

-Tom

 

[sprocketjockey9]

Essentially 2. Over the winter I haven't been doing too much weekend riding, but basically did Sufferfest twice a week, and then another ride. Whether on the mtb, road bike, or another trainer ride on the shittier weeks.

Thanks! Good call. So would this be as simple as adding time to the intervals? The Fenner articles have "Weekly Overload & Variation" so it sounds like I need to build that into this training.

-Tom

Depends on what system you are working on? Aerobic? Vo2? Anaerobic?

Aerobic (longer work) can do some sweet spot work, 3x10, 4x9, 2x20, all different variations. Mix it up with some bursts or criss-cross work to get closer to the demands of racing.

Vo2 work? Start around 2 minute intervals and work up to 5 minutes, etc. Do just enough work to get the adaptations and then call it. Doesn't work to do 2 minute intervals when you're really doing them at 8-10 minute effort cause you are gassed...

Each week increase intervals slightly over the previous. Example did 3x10 SST week 1, do 4x9 sst the next, then 3x12the 3rd, 2 x20 or 4x10 4th (go by total workload 30/36/36/40). Not only will it keep you physically on top of your game, but also mentally fresher....

 

[Poncharelli]

This looks like the anti-Zone 2 training plan.

The more years I train and race, the more I realize the magic of zone 2. Too bad it takes so much time to be effective.

I'm getting to the point where I think it's more effective to have a "zone 2 only" training plan, than an "interval only" training plan. Of course, it's better to have a mix of the two, with a surprisingly low proportion of intervals. That's my experience; results may vary.

 

[flargle]

While it does seem like a ton of intervals, it's only an hour of training, so I'm not totally killing myself.

I think you're missing an important point. You will only get the promised gains from HIIT if you are able to perform the workouts at, well, high intensity, and if you allow your body adequate recovery time in which to make physiological adaptations.

Most training gurus recommend a maximum of three key workouts per week, with easier days in between. As someone else wrote, if you go back the well of hardcore intervals too often, you'll just end up faking the intensity.

Here's a link to a 2-week program than targets VO2max. Check it out, read everything he writes (and not just the workouts), and see how intensity is varied over the course of the two weeks. Also keep in mind, this is meant to be an intense period of overreaching, followed by a rest and shift in training, it is NOT meant to be repeated indefinitely.
http://www.training4cyclists.com/how-to-increase-your-vo2-max-in-14-days-vo2-max-test/

It might be a good way to kick off your training, then shift your emphasis to longer rides, maybe threshold intervals once or twice a week, etc.

I think it's good to have an overall plan/calendar for training, but I think it's a mistake to plan individual workouts so far in advance. You really have no idea how your body will react, so you're probably setting yourself up for failure.

 

[strader]

I don't see enough mountain biking in that mountain bike training program.
I used to train like that. Woke up with shot legs every morning. I didn't get faster until I started focusing on more 2 hour+ rides.

 

[trhoppe]

Thanks for all the advice.

With the advice on here, as well as what I got in the Endurance Racing forum, I'm going to make some changes/updates to this.

a) Pull out one of the intervals per week, so I have 2 actual interval sessions. I can make sure the interval sessions are top intensity and raise the stakes on those a bit to really push myself.
b) That way I can focus on the 2 interval sessions (one on the road, one on the MTB), and the one 4 hour weekend ride (on the MTB).
c) On the 4 "off" days, I'll take a day of total rest, a day of longer riding on the MTB (2hr spin on the local loop) or riding 30 road miles on the greenways with the GF, and 2 days of cross training with running and soccer.
d) Actually plan March/Some of April and stop there. Re-evaluate where I am in 6 weeks and take it from there.

I'll try that and see where it takes me. With me not being in optimal shape right now, I bet it's good enough for now

-Tom

 

[sprocketjockey9]

now that sounds much more sound....

However, if you want to be a mountain bike racer, axe the soccer & running. You're not going to get the proper recovery after those efforts. I almost always recommend 2 COMPLETELY OFF days per week for almost everybody, recovery is where the gains from all the work you've done will be made. No sense in doing intervals if you are going to do them tired & improperly....

 

[flargle]

However, if you want to be a mountain bike racer, axe the soccer & running.

If you want to hate riding a bike, give up everything else in your life that you enjoy.

 

[trhoppe]

:lol: I almost replied with something like that. I want "mountain bike racing" to be one of my hobbies, I just want to be pretty damn good at it.

While I hate running, it's really good for my cross training, as I enjoy all sports. Soccer, flag football, skiing, hiking, basketball pickup games, softball, kickball, etc etc

Soccer is on the top of that list and I'm on 2 teams with my friends, and ain't going to give that up soon. It's 2nd priority for sure, but it's still gonna be done. I figured 3-4 days of riding a week should do me. If biking takes over more of a priority, I'll move that to 4-5 days and cut back a day of soccer, but not yet

Thanks for the advice again!

 

[sprocketjockey9]

If you want to hate riding a bike, give up everything else in your life that you enjoy.

:lol: I almost replied with something like that. I want "mountain bike racing" to be one of my hobbies, I just want to be pretty damn good at it.

While I hate running, it's really good for my cross training, as I enjoy all sports. Soccer, flag football, skiing, hiking, basketball pickup games, softball, kickball, etc etc

Soccer is on the top of that list and I'm on 2 teams with my friends, and ain't going to give that up soon. It's 2nd priority for sure, but it's still gonna be done. I figured 3-4 days of riding a week should do me. If biking takes over more of a priority, I'll move that to 4-5 days and cut back a day of soccer, but not yet

Thanks for the advice again!

Well, you asked for a critique of your program, I was under the presumption that you wanted to know what would make you faster. Riding your bike makes you faster :thumbsup:

Everyone has to find balance in their lives though, so nothing wrong with adding other sports into the mix to keep you fresh. As you move forward through racing and training and are looking for more of an edge things change...

Having fun first is the reason we do this anyways right?

 

[trhoppe]

No no, I totally asked for critique and I really appreciate it. Just at this time, I'm willing to sacrifice that extra little bit for soccer.

I think you're right, that once I move forward through racing, I'll either be happy at my current level, or I'll feel that to move to the next level, I'm going to have to focus more and some soccer is going to have to go.

Thanks again!